Zappa.com

God damn that makes me depressed.

Maybe certain remnants of original MOI would be less bitter towards Frank today? I mean, FZ' death hasn't stopped them making critical comments about him after 1993, but if FZ would've been killed 22 years before, perhaps there would be less bitterness? There certainly would not be the baggage of lawsuits, re-recordings of rhythm section and whatnot. I guess the Grandmothers would've been formed anyway, but whether the survivors of Zappa would've been less opposed to JCB, Bunk, Don et al performing his music, remains anybody's guess. Also anybody's guess would be the very existence of DZPZ, even if that would be the reality, it would basically only have a very limited palette of repertoire: original Mothers style, the jazz-rock of Hot Rats and the Flo & Eddie vaudeville music. The original MOI only crowd may have not liked what came ever since Over-Nite Sensation, but each of the subsequent epochs only added to Frank's versatility.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

I think he would be relatively obscure today if it had ended in '71. Maybe an Arthur Lee or Marc Bolan in terms of importance in rock history. Hell, he's relatively obscure anyway.

^Arthur Lee or Marc Bolan??

How can someone complain about a man yet still go out and play his music for a living? It's beyond me. If Zappa died in '71 I'm sure he would have less people bitching about him. All those people would not have to begrudge him his sustained success. He'd be a tragic story. Murdered on stage. If those grumbling Mothers could have made it without Zappa they would not have been whining. George Duke never complained.

Also, Steve Vai would be doing jingles.
Adrien Belew would be on a cruise ship playing shitty covers with his band Sweetheart. For sure, Fripp and Bowie NEVER would have discovered him in some dive down in the American south.

I believe Vai would have made it anyway. He was putting himself out there in other places, even when he sent those transcripts to Zappa. I agree with you on Belew though. Back in those days, rock musicians didn't look to Nashville to discover talent. My, how times have changed.

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"Everything dies baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back"

This would have been tragic! I mean, I feel blessed every day just to know that I have been given the fantastic opportunity to sit underneath Trendmonger's learning tree.

...and,

Napoleon Murphy Brock would still be in Hawaii.

FZ would still be dead now anyway.

I still would have seen him at The Fillmore West with The MOI.

Flo & Eddie would still have been The Turtles then Mothers.

He still would have gotten credit for the 1st rock concept album.

The guy who hit him would've been out of jail for 20yrs or so by now.

...and Roy Estrada would still be a perv.

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

It does depend on what constitutes a "complaint".

FZ: "MUSICIANS like George Duke can mumble something about the band being too crazy and leave but then he comes back."

Duke has also been quoted to say that he observed Zappa going from a funny sarcastic guy to a serious sarcastic guy, his sense of humour getting ever vindictive. Is that a complaint? Or a legitimate observation?

And what does one reckon of FZ' own pissed off rantings from this interview (the origin of quote on Duke above):

http://afka.net/Articles/1974-12_Creem.htm

He IS pretty pissed off in that interview. Basically nobody in the band could play the way he wanted to, everybody thought he was crazy and everybody killed him in print to get their career going (Little Feat got it going, Geronimo Black apparently never).

Two sides to every story? And how does one really find the cold hard truth?



That's a very good point. Perhaps FZ' earlier death could've triggered a chain of events that would've nullified King Crimson's post-seventies reunion.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

^ Interesting.
I should have said: I've never heard G Duke put down Zappa.
I guess everyone who knew FZ complained about him at least once or twice. Thanks for that link.


I don't know about that but I doubt Fripp or Bowie would have ventured into that club where FZ found Belew. Or Eno, for that matter. Apparently it's Eno who told Bowie about Belew after seeing him with FZ.

I said I agree with you on Belew, but I think Vai would have been discovered anyway. What part of my statement are you referring to? You quoted the part about Adrian, and I agree with you on that? Perhaps we have a misunderstanding?

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"Everything dies baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back"

I just meant that I would take your word on the part about rock musicians in the 70s not looking for talent in Nashville because I don't know about that. I was commenting on how guys like Fripp probably would not venture into some dive in Nashville. Zappa seemed a little more down to earth.

And I was just kidding about Vai, really. I'm sure he'd have made it without Zappa. One way or the other.

Yeah. Even Tommy Mars (and maybe Steve Vai) have made remarks on what a brutal taskmaster Zappa appeared to be.

I guess Zappa and Fripp really are two bandleaders most known for creating their bands as a climate what Bill Bruford would sort of half-jokingly call "an absolutely terrifying place". The only difference, Fripp's most vocal critic Gordon Haskell thought Lizard was a piece of shit and thoroughly distanced himself from this kind of music. And what did Preston, Black and Gardner do? Form the first known Zappa tribute band in history! Now remind me again who of the original Mothers was/were the only one(s) not in any way or shape opposed to Frank at some point? Even Ian must've had some jealousy for Frank supposedly (not that I really know) lusting after Ruth. Maybe Ian and Ruth would still be together had it not been for Frank forming the Roxy band?

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Perhaps not, but I think Vai had the savvy to make it without Zappa. I don't disagree with you that he sold himself out in the late 80's. But, is that really such a bad thing? Anyone who decides on a career in music has to sellout at some point to make it to the big time.

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"Everything dies baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back"

Nah. He probably used that money to do more interesting work.

I love the original Mothers. Very creative. But what Frank said about Uncle Meat disturbs me, he must have been bitter. I can't imagine it wasn't a massive group effort. Who knows?

I don't think he gives Ian enough credit.

I find the Mothers to be the most sentimental Zappa music to me. I just love it so much. There's like a emotional connection I have with it. The members of the band were awesome people I think, and not just performers. There's a whole Mothers attitude on them too. Burnt Weeny would be nothing without the other musicians.



I just couldn't think like that.

The original MOI does give me a warm feeling. Absolutely Free is still one of the funniest albums ever made. It has helped change my view on what music is and what it can be.
I think it is the most 'MOTHERS OF INVENTION' of all their albums if that makes sense. When I think MOI that is what comes to mind to me. Especially Uncle Bernies Farm. All the little comments made through the song crack me up.

CHECK HIS WALLET!!!!!!

I once read some statement by Diva. She said that she only has few memories about her father, one of them is she and him watching the Simpsons together when FZ already was to sick to work lots of hours anymore. Diva was a young teenager when FZ died. This was very sad to read. It made me think that every fan knows more about him than his own family.

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Susy Creamcheese, oh baby now what's got into you?

I agree.

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Anyone know when the sex abuse cases started against Roy? Was it the mid 70's or earlier?

Ok, every one except for Roy. but he was very funny.

Very interesting thread!

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Trying to find the on switch but I kept getting my eyes poked out by her perky tits. I am not in trouble, for no trouble is worse than spilling milk.

Many lawyers are known to indulge in unhealthy habits too, and maybe with the wrong attitude while on it. I don't think one can be happier than living playing Frank Zappa's music and being called by FZ himself a walking encyclopedia of his vast oeuvre . That would be Nirvana.

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Too True

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South of the Border