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My Roxy is a misprint, and when I had to do without roxy for some time because I had to switch to a poor CD-player, it was terrible! So for me I suppose it's Roxy's polished sounds, yet I prefer Helsinki's Edchina.

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I gotta go with Roxy here, but that may just be because I heard it first.

To me, I went apeshit when I heard Helsinki's 'Village Of The Sun' and 'Pygymy Twilight'. Pygmy felt like it had lost that awesome groove it has on Roxy, and 'Village' had been murdered by how fast it was.

It was incredible to hear them play that live, but still...

For me Vol.2 blows Roxy away, that maybe because I heard Vol.2 first and am much more familiar with the ultra fast tempos. the combo of Echinda's Arf/Don;t You Ever Wash That Thing?/ Room Service/Pygmy Twylyte is totally awesome and absolutely breathtaking. Dupree's Paradise bores me quite frankly, and Big Swifty is far far batter on Vol.1. As a document of a complete show sans encores it kicks butt, and I would like to hear more Vaulternative releases in the same vein as Grateful Dead's Dick's Pick's series, in other words, entire shows released rather than compilations of shows. That's just the way I prefer things.

i think roxy feels a little "warmer" maybe, it's more relaxed than how frantic the helsinki show is, but to pick one over another is way too hard. I'll go with Roxy since FZ enjoyed enough to release it when it was current to the band i guess.

That's probably my favorite group too, so it's like trying to pick your favorite son out of two non-identical twins

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"If you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you missed" -Elvis Costello

http://www.perfectecho.com - it sucks.

IMO...

Both are plagued with monologues and routines that become tedious to listen to after the first time...I often fast forward or skip these things to get to the music.

Vol. 2 has excellent stuff like Inca, Rdnzl, T'Mershi Duween, Dog Breath/Uncle Meat, Echidna's Arf. I also like DYEWTT, Cheepnis and Pygmy Twylyte better on this one. Just straight uninterupted music. Dupree's Paradise and Approximate (2 FZ classics) would get much better documentation in the future...they are marred on this set with too much messing around and talking. Shame really. And Big Swifty on YCDTOSA Vol. 1 with this same band, is far superior to the one that appears on Vol. 2.

I'd say I enjoy Vol. 2 better than Roxy because overall it has more tracks that I like and listen to more often.

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"To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also." - Stravinsky

I couldnt agree more. Helsinki great show no dought. I definatly like the Roxy version of Village way better to.

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To me they are quite different.
Roxy sounds like an album compiled from a concert and Helsinki has a complete concert without overdubs, so it's a matter of what mood I'm in.
It's a 50/50 thing with me. Both have musical mastery going on (in different places, hence the differences of the songs) and both have funny onstage banter.

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Is it worth upgrading my original RYKO version with one of the newer so called "Upgaded Sound" version of "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol 2"?

Now I tend to play ROXY much more, and long for the DVD...

What we get on "True Stories of 200 Motels" is just great.

On "Dickie's Such An Asshole" from "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 3 {But is from the same December 8-10 1973 ROXY shows}, we hear Zappa say "Ah, they're going to ah, reload the cameras and we're gonna do a special, 'nuther special number for you, ladies and gentlemen" Do you think they got this entier song on film?

The only cd's that really improved on Rykodisc were Money, You Are What You Is and Tinseltown Rebellion (the '98 versions). Others are more or less the same or inferior to the older cd's (Sheik Yerbouti comes to mind).
I have Rykodisc and older cd's, because I don't care, to me they're pretty similar. I have the 'older' YCDTOSA2 and love it, sound-wise as well as content-wise.

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Thank you for responding to my question above. That advice is much appreciated. I’ll save my money for other goodies.

It's always interesting to see what others think of, in regards to specific aspects of the various versions of songs, shows, ect.

For instance, I couldn't agree less with your opinon about the monologues and routines.
I never skip them.
They're a way of life.

That being said, I agree with the Big Swifty comparision you brought up.
Though Big Swifty is like Pizza, there is no such thing as bad Big Swifty

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Wanna Buy A Grunt With A Third Party Check

Right on man!

It's almost a mystery how the Roxy recordings sound so warm and nicely nebulous, whereas Helsinki era band had colder and slicker sound. Did the presence/absence of brass and 2nd trap-kit really make as much difference? Or maybe FZ' had some adjustments in the technical rider, like probably adding more reverb to drums or something? Also, I think Tom Fowler played a different sort of electric bass in 1974-5 as well. In 1973 he played with a Fender (probably Jazz Bass?) model. Whatever the case, I much prefer the 1973 live sound.

Both are enjoyable to me. I do like the two drummer approach on Roxy and the polished mastery of YCDTOSA 2.

No doubt: Roxy. Roxy. Roxy.
Helsinki is very overrated IMO. Absolutely not bad, but..

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TB -

The only way Roxy could be better would be if Jean-Luc Ponty AND Ian Underwood were still in the band!

Roxy. I like the sound and compositions of it better.

I got Helsinki first, so I'm a little partial to that one. Plus I'm not a huge fan of this band's arrangement of "Trouble > Oh No > Orange County", and the "Be Bop Tango" doesn't particularly excite me. Then again, neither does the hyper extended "Duprees" on vol 2, but this is all just nitpicking. They're both amazing, face the facts.

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Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!

Elsewhere and Helsinki band both would perform (Roxy band didn't) Oh No/Son of Orange County/Trouble at their concerts. The 1974 arrangement of "Trouble Every Day" is not bad, but I prefer the original Freak Out version and sadly Frank thought that the Elsewhere arrangement was the definite version of this song and stuck with it during his subsequent career.

^^ Agree

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Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!

Roxy for me, not one track I don't enjoy, I even scooped it up on vinyl along with Guitar recently!

Probably mainly that FZ mixed Roxy in 1974 and Helsinki sometime around 1988.

when i bought vol 2 on vinyl must of listened two times but roxy a bit later fuck loved it on cd .

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Arf you out of your fucking mind.

i ordered helinsky online and it supposedly shipped last saturday and i have yet to receive it. i cant wait much longer.

As it is crammed with overdubs I tend to think of Roxy as the studio album and Helsinki as the live one. Both are essential and different enough to warrant owning. We're talking top shelf Zappa here.