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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:45 am 
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Dbdash2000 wrote:
Technically, any trading/downloading etc... of bootleg recordings is illegal. (...)

So, in summary:

Downloading any bootlegs (zappateers), officially released material (bitTorrent), or videos (you tube) is by any account illegal and causes the ZFT to lose money


Nice clarifying post, thanks.

I, most of all, know shit about copyright laws, but I can't understand trading/downloading ROIOs (Record of Indeterminate Origin) - your bootlegs - for free as illegal.

From my understanding it only can be considered illegal if it involves posterior profit ($$$) from selling of the content.

I think that in practice, it is up to the artist's (or copyright owner) discretion. Some stimulate the trading scene, some are vehemently against. Most don't bother with it at all.

I can't see this (zapateers) affecting the ZFT's income in anyway (unless they use the bootleg material to make new BTBs).

Dime (major trading community today), for example, has the strict policy of banning anything related to an official release, which would invalidate the torrent's legitimacy of the short AUD (audience) recording from Buffalo, have it been seeded there (for an example).

Before mp3, there were cassettes. I don't remember being told that to copy an album from a friend to my own personal enjoyment (without involving selling this copy) was illegal. ..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:54 am 
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.....meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

EMI, Apple make music available without antipiracy software

2 April 2007--8:09am (ET) - By Simon Kennedy
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- U.K. music company EMI Group (UK:EMI) said Monday that it plans to make all its digital music repertoire available without any antipiracy software, adding that Apple Inc's (AAPL) iTunes Store will be the first to sell the new downloads. EMI said the move "will enable full interoperability of digital music across all devices and platforms." The firm added the music will also be at a much higher sound quality than existing downloads. "We believe that offering consumers the opportunity to buy higher quality tracks and listen to them on the device or platform of their choice will boost sales of digital music," EMI said.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:03 am 
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Me get full live 80's (official) show!! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:06 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Before mp3, there were cassettes. I don't remember being told that to copy an album from a friend to my own personal enjoyment (without involving selling this copy) was illegal. ..


Thanks to Mr Dash for the post.
As to Mr GG, cassettes/cd-r copying is illegal, outside of making copies for your immediate family (thank god, I dupe cd's from my collection for my 6 year old. No way he's getting his hands on the original). Recall that FZ said the PMRC hearings are, in part, a smokescreen for granting the Recording Industry a cut of the profits from the sale of blank tape. They ended up getting a piece of the action 'cause they convinced whomever in the government that they were getting ripped off. But the law still stands.
I wonder if they get a piece of blank cd-r's??? Those are multi-use so perhaps not.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:11 am 
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brainpang wrote:

I wonder if they get a piece of blank cd-r's??? Those are multi-use so perhaps not.


So are cassetes, or Blank VHS or whatever blank media we can come up with... I used to load computer data with a cassette, way back when...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:16 am 
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Why do you think they wanted to tax the holy hell out of those blank media back in the 80s? Because it was something everyone wanted.


Woops... didnt see that post above mine.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:20 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
.....meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

EMI, Apple make music available without antipiracy software

2 April 2007--8:09am (ET) - By Simon Kennedy
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- U.K. music company EMI Group (UK:EMI) said Monday that it plans to make all its digital music repertoire available without any antipiracy software, adding that Apple Inc's (AAPL) iTunes Store will be the first to sell the new downloads. EMI said the move "will enable full interoperability of digital music across all devices and platforms." The firm added the music will also be at a much higher sound quality than existing downloads. "We believe that offering consumers the opportunity to buy higher quality tracks and listen to them on the device or platform of their choice will boost sales of digital music," EMI said.


Yes the format of High Definition Downlaods is something that is starting to take off. 96Khz/24 Bit Downloads is something that MusicGiants devlivers that is even above and beyond many Digital Download outfits.

So weather or not any High Def Audio Dowloads was to have Anti-Piracy Software attatched to it or not it seems unrealistic to think that people will pay for the download from store X if Free Trade Torent Site Y could offer the same HD Audio Copy sans a fee that the artist deserves.

In the old days with Casettes it was a tape or two made here and there. In 2007 it is a big time corrupt business. For Itunes to make a statement shows they really don't care about each individual artists rigths. Yeah they will offer better quality downloads but what are they doing to protect the rigths of each artist?


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:21 am 
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If yr as fascinated by this copyright stuff as I am, consider what has been going on in Europe (all the EU?) as to the art world.
Last I heard, a law is under consideration that in the event that the owner of a painting (or whatever) re-sells it at a higher price than purchased, he must share the profits with the artist/gallery. Highly controversial. Would the wealthy investors even bother to support a new artist? Are the pro artists/galleries shooting themselves in the foot? An initial sale to a prominent collector is generally what gets the big buzz going.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:25 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
brainpang wrote:

I wonder if they get a piece of blank cd-r's??? Those are multi-use so perhaps not.


So are cassetes, or Blank VHS or whatever blank media we can come up with... I used to load computer data with a cassette, way back when...


Yea, but you're obviously a nerd.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:29 am 
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brainpang wrote:
If yr as fascinated by this copyright stuff as I am, consider what has been going on in Europe (all the EU?) as to the art world.
Last I heard, a law is under consideration that in the event that the owner of a painting (or whatever) re-sells it at a higher price than purchased, he must share the profits with the artist/gallery. Highly controversial. Would the wealthy investors even bother to support a new artist? Are the pro artists/galleries shooting themselves in the foot? An initial sale to a prominent collector is generally what gets the big buzz going.


Check out the movie The Moderns.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095649/
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It's a really good film. Anhow the character Bertram Stone played by John Lone in this film is an art buyer. He states that if he decided to buy a painting of dog shit for $1,000,000 in (1920's money) that it was worth a Million Dollars becaause that is what he paid for it.

This same buyer who thinks he rectly was fooled into purchasing Matisse copies that were actually otriginals starts chopping up the originals saying Matisse would never paint nipples like that. He just starts carving up those areolas.

The value of art is definitively about the artistic intent of the composer. The artist has a certain set of right. Human being who have no clue fuck with both. What we pay for art supports the artist financialy so he can continue his work and hopefully suport his family.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:29 am 
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Leave it to Trendy to take what was a cool thread discussing the new Buffalo 1980 release, and take it ridiculously off topic and into retardland.

Trendy, honestly, your pointless rants take away a lot of enjoyment I get from coming to these forums and discussing FZ's music with other fans who love the MUSIC. That's great that you've appointed yourself as Gail's little Snitch, but complaining about someone selling a CD is beyond stupid to me. WHAT DO YOU CARE? Is it illegal to sell a car you bought new as well?

God you have such negative fucking energy.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:38 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Yea, but you're obviously a nerd.


At least I am not a dickhead, as yourself, isn't it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BetaMax

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:39 am 
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Trennasol wrote:
Leave it to Trendy to take what was a cool thread discussing the new Buffalo 1980 release, and take it ridiculously off topic and into retardland.

Trendy, honestly, your pointless rants take away a lot of enjoyment I get from coming to these forums and discussing FZ's music with other fans who love the MUSIC. That's great that you've appointed yourself as Gail's little Snitch, but complaining about someone selling a CD is beyond stupid to me. WHAT DO YOU CARE? Is it illegal to sell a car you bought new as well?

God you have such negative fucking energy.


The way cool thread turned off topic when some Constantly Crying Forum Member said Fuck You Trendy before I even commented on this comming out. I have supported and enjoyed all Official Releases for the last 40 years so why would I not like this one.

Sincerely folks I am happy for all fans and we all are looking forward to the release. Unfortunately I did not drive to Buffalo for that show. The Palldium shows were soemthing special. From my memory some shows were cut short a bit compared to most Zappa shows as Frank was feeling pretty ill. Maybe all the AUD tape collectors have documented the 1980 Palladium Halloween run and can interject but Buffalo looks special. Can't wait to get my sweaty hands on this one. Should be here Tommorow or Wednesday.

I think we all await Buffalo with open ears regardless of any polished turd ideology factor.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:47 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Yea, but you're obviously a nerd.


At least I am not a dickhead, as yourself, isn't it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BetaMax


I was making a joke. We were discussing the Recording Industry and their "taxation," right? Then you pointed out how foolish I am, without actually making a clear point. Thus, my response. There ya go. ANYWAY, enough. I agree with terransol (sp?) that this thread should be about the music.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:53 am 
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Yeah seriously people stop being such a fana-diplodocus or whatever.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:08 am 
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Of course Trendy is the bigger crybaby, but to be fair, he must've made that commentary about your avatar, which does feature a guy crying a river, so to say.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:09 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Trennasol wrote:
Leave it to Trendy to take what was a cool thread discussing the new Buffalo 1980 release, and take it ridiculously off topic and into retardland.

Trendy, honestly, your pointless rants take away a lot of enjoyment I get from coming to these forums and discussing FZ's music with other fans who love the MUSIC. That's great that you've appointed yourself as Gail's little Snitch, but complaining about someone selling a CD is beyond stupid to me. WHAT DO YOU CARE? Is it illegal to sell a car you bought new as well?

God you have such negative fucking energy.


The way cool thread turned off topic when some Constantly Crying Forum Member said Fuck You Trendy before I even commented on this comming out. I have supported and enjoyed all Official Releases for the last 40 years so why would I not like this one.

Sincerely folks I am happy for all fans and we all are lookind forward to the release. Unfprtunately I did not drive to Buffalo for that show. The Palldium shows were soemthing special. From my memory some shows were cut short a bit compared to most Zappa shows as Frank was feeling pretty ill. Maybe all the AUD tape collectors have documented the 1980 Palladium Halloween run and can interject but Buffalo looks special. Can't wait to get my hands on sweaty hands on this one. Shoudl be here Tommorow or Wednesday.

I think we all await Buffalo with open ears regardless of any polished turd ideology factor.


Tell me what I've cried about? I think the majority of people here would vote YOU the crybaby.

YOU are the only one who has even brought that up!! The "Fuck You Trendy" comment was made in reference to the fact that this release is a FULL SHOW. A complete and full show is something that the ZFT must be fully aware that the FANS like me want. It's not another "sampler" this time is it?


I am glad we got a Full Show. I have expected this type of release since Gail announced Vaulternative Records in 2002. I think more Full Shows will come along but in no way do I think projects are or should be limited to the idea of Full Shows. Not that you do but to call the Halloween DVD-A a Sampler just shows no appreciation for what that DVD-A project represents.

Anyhow now that a Full Show is upon us i a am sincerly happy for you Jayp just as I am happy fro All Zappa fans. There was no need to immediaately comment Fuck You Trendy in your first reply to the topic. I am a bit more sincere than you might think.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:15 am 
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I'm really looking forward to this full concert release. I saw this band play about 7x if ya treat early/late shows separately. I don't remember much outside that Frank's guitar was great, exploding in my face. Very intense moments. I hope it triggers some old memories. The Fall '80 series was a welcome relief after the NY/NJ April/May Logeman tour. That tour was largely a bummer as it was a definite venue downgrade, Frank playing in Hockey Rinks as opposed to a more intimate theater like the Capitol in Passaic or The Palladium. Is there much of this band on the You Can't series? I'll have to check. Very interesting choice from the ZFT. Can't wait.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:19 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Tell me what I've cried about?


I do take objection with how some Fans act regarding the artistic integrity of Frank Zappa. you at times have been at the top of that list. If anyone wants to call me a cry baby about that or Gail's Snitch well so be it.

Now what you've cried about.

Jayp it's your avatar. Alot of your writings sound like that Jim Baker character who has just been caught inserting the tip. Why don't you change it to the Buffalo CD cover now that you have a Full Show.

Did not Gail Zappa once state she woudl not personaly sell you a DVD of The Dub Room Special. Come on Jayp you are a Zapap fanatic. I can appreciate that but just as some view my commentary as out there you calling Official Zappa releases Rehash or Samplers shows no respect to the artistic intergrity of FranK Zappa.

Only because you asked. I hope we can all get in a better mood and enjoy our deliveries that shoudl start arrivind at our doors tomorrow.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:23 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
According to the interview on this page, a 1974 show has been prepared for 5.1 also. I wonder if this is for a DVD Video of the KCET show or a different show intended for DVD-A release??

http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/filipetti/


Glad you brougth this up Jayp. There are even more interviews out there to add to our N'Litenment. A good article is Cookin in the Fillipetti Kitchen. I think in time you will appreciate more of what Frank Fillipetti has done for the ZFT.

DVD-A is great but may very well be phased out. DVD-A makes use of 96Khz/24 bit HD Audio that itself is 1,000 times better than CD but with HD Master Audio on the horizon that would be even better where there is no need to compress the 96Khz/24 bit signal before it hits the out interface of the DVD-A player. The Bandwidth limitations of the DVD-A disk limit lossless HD Audio transer so it is compressed but still much better than CD or HDCD.

HD Master Audio in either blue laser format with a A/V receiver with a DTS Master decoder offers True Lossless 96Khz/24 bit in 7.1 HD Audio wher it will sound exactly as mixed in the studio. It remains in a 96khz/24 bit lossless 7.1 HD Audio Format from the player through the A/V receiver over HDMI 1.3 where finally a DAC in teh A/V receiver converts it for the speaker out interface. Frank Fillipetti is very much a leader in the movement of HD Audio. I am waiting for Sherwood or Denon to deliver A/V receivers with HD Master Audio Decoders in 2nd or 3rd Quarter 07'. As a nice gesture maybe one day I'll will invite you over to listen to some releases when I upgrade my system. Maybe we can mend some fences together. If you want to upgrade your A/V receiver look at the specs of the Sherwood R872 and R972 to get an idea on what is to come. I am sure the DACs in both will make your DVDs,CDs,MP3s,AUDs,SBDs and Pirated Recordings sound better.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:09 am, edited 12 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:31 am 
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brainpang wrote:
I was making a joke.


Sorry, I forgot to laugh...

brainpang wrote:
We were discussing the Recording Industry and their "taxation," right? Then you pointed out how foolish I am, without actually making a clear point. Thus, my response. There ya go.


Never told you were foolish, not implied nor explicitly.

brainpang wrote:
ANYWAY, enough. I agree with terransol (sp?) that this thread should be about the music.


Should have remembered that before making your rude joke...

BTW, leave my Hermeto Pascoal thread be as well, would ya? I don't want people with small minded attitude on those areas of the forum... If someone is in a bad need for a bath, it might be your brain...

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Last edited by Mr_Green_Genes on Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:50 am 
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I'm really looking forward to get the 1st officially released full show in my hands - BUFFALO seems to be just that!!!

And I'm especially looking forward to this:
03. The Torture Never Stops 23:36 YEAH YEAH YEAH!!!
8) 8) 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:51 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
brainpang wrote:
I was making a joke.


Sorry, I forgot to laugh...

brainpang wrote:
We were discussing the Recording Industry and their "taxation," right? Then you pointed out how foolish I am, without actually making a clear point. Thus, my response. There ya go.


Never told you were foolish, not implied nor explicitly.

brainpang wrote:
ANYWAY, enough. I agree with terransol (sp?) that this thread should be about the music.


Should have remembered that before making your rude joke...

BTW, leave my Hermeto Pascoal thread be as well, would ya? I don't want people with small minded attitude on those areas of the forum... If someone is in a bad need for a bath, it might be your brain...


Gawd, you are annoying. Just can't let it alone. Long-winded obssessive, ya put me to sleep. I got news for ya: Zappa Fan & Nerd are just about one in the same thing. It's changed a lot over the years but, uh, there sure were a hell of a lot of nerds in attgendance at Zappa shows. I was making a joke, ya self-important bore.. The Nerd description is no longer considered an insult. Nerds have gone on to rule the world. Weird Al has proven it yet again. Turning around and calling me a dickhead is, however, a direct insult. You may have noticed I don't care. You really need to get yourself a blog. There you can post an endless series of articles to show how enlightened you are and, gee, maybe someone will even think that you wrote them! Of course this all boils down to your blatant promotion and my dismissal of the Hermaphrodite, as evidenced by your above post. I'm sure I've bored everyone but you. Welp, you have inspired me to blow off work and head down to the go-go bar. There I will hand my dollars over to your Brasilian sisters who have had enough sense to get as far away from you as possible. Don't talk to me in future.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:59 am 
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brainpang wrote:
There I will hand my dollars over to your Brasilian sisters who have had enough sense to get as far away from you as possible. Don't talk to me in future.


FUCK YOU, BITCH!

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Last edited by Mr_Green_Genes on Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:19 am 
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....................back to the thread topic...

...Is it true that this is a combination of multi-track/SBD cassette masters? Is there a link to this information?


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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