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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:39 pm 
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I had a question about Ian Underwood's saxophone on "The Gumbo Variations." Is he playing alto saxophone on this song and if he is, how does he produce that sound which makes the saxophone sound like a tenor saxophone? I know he would normally play alto saxophone in the original Mothers of Invention so I was wondering if he was playing alto saxophone on this song. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:45 pm 
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maybe he's playing both ...he's credited on alto & tenor for chunga & o.nite sensation

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:52 pm 
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ian underwood : tenor, alto and baritone saxophones, electric alto sax with wah-wah pedal, flute, clarinet, organ, piano, electric piano, grand piano, redundant piano triplets, pipe organ, organus maximus, harpsichord, celeste, rhythm guitar, wholesome, special assistance, copyist, industrial relations, teen appeal, the straight member of the group and vocals.

the gumbo variations; sounds like a tenor sax to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:08 pm 
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It's a tenor.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:29 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
ian underwood : tenor, alto and baritone saxophones, electric alto sax with wah-wah pedal, flute, clarinet, organ, piano, electric piano, grand piano, redundant piano triplets, pipe organ, organus maximus, harpsichord, celeste, rhythm guitar, wholesome, special assistance, copyist, industrial relations, teen appeal, the straight member of the group and vocals.

the gumbo variations; sounds like a tenor sax to me.


there's also uncredited recorder on Hot Rats and he also played synthesizer live with Grand Wazoo and 73 Mothers.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
ian underwood : tenor, alto and baritone saxophones, electric alto sax with wah-wah pedal, flute, clarinet, organ, piano, electric piano, grand piano, redundant piano triplets, pipe organ, organus maximus, harpsichord, celeste, rhythm guitar, wholesome, special assistance, copyist, industrial relations, teen appeal, the straight member of the group and vocals.

the gumbo variations; sounds like a tenor sax to me.

Aybe Sea wrote:
there's also uncredited recorder on Hot Rats

.........exactly. uncredited. :wink:

Aybe Sea wrote:
and he also played synthesizer live with Grand Wazoo and 73 Mothers.

.........never made it to an album, though (so far...).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:56 pm 
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By the way, although Mr. Underwood is credited on "Overnite Sensation" with saxes, clarinet and flute, I couldn't discern a single flute or clarinet line on the album by him. I know he used clarinet in the original version of "RDNZL" and had a flute solo in an early take of "Inca Roads", both obviously OS outtakes, as they originated from the same sessions. But that doesn't really count, does it? So he really only seems to contribute sax to the written horn charts on the album.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:32 pm 
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I think there is a clarinet playing in the horn section on Camarillo-Brillo...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:41 am 
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Ian Underwood is credited with all saxes and all clarinets. So apparently he played more than one type of sax. Alto and tenor, and I wouldn't totally rule out soprano or baritone either (i hear some rather low notes on "Son of Mr Green Genes"). He also could play bass clarinet, which he most notably used during his last concerts with Zappa in 1973, so that one might also appear on Hot Rats.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:01 am 
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http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Hrats/gumbo.html
Quote:
Anyone else notice that at exactly 3:24 into the (1987) Gumbo Variations of of _Hot Rats_, Ian Underwood quotes the melody of that recently overplayed pop bilge specimen "Macarena"?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:41 am 
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One nice thing about the Hot Rats cd is that The Gumbo Variations is a few minutes longer on the cd than it is on the original vinyl.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:07 am 
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It sounds like Underwood could possibly be playing a bass clarinet at the beginning of Mr. Green Genes off of Uncle Meat. Is that true or is it a baritone sax?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:35 am 
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FZ121 wrote:
It sounds like Underwood could possibly be playing a bass clarinet at the beginning of Mr. Green Genes off of Uncle Meat. Is that true or is it a baritone sax?


Good call about that low woodwind: it sounds like a bari sax. The same sound opens "Any Way The Wind Blows" on the original vinyl of "Ruben" (wiped out on the Wackermanized edition, sadly), but I imagine that was voiced by Motorhead. I thought Motorhead was playing that low D drone on UM Green Genes as well, but apparently Motorhead is credited with tenor sax and Ian with bari sax so there you go! Other than the bari sax drone, Bunk doubles the bass line on bassoon.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:49 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
By the way, although Mr. Underwood is credited on "Overnite Sensation" with saxes, clarinet and flute, I couldn't discern a single flute or clarinet line on the album by him. I know he used clarinet in the original version of "RDNZL" and had a flute solo in an early take of "Inca Roads", both obviously OS outtakes, as they originated from the same sessions. But that doesn't really count, does it? So he really only seems to contribute sax to the written horn charts on the album.


Been listening to "Overnite Sensation" a little more closely (which by now I consider a fairly good (not great) album, save for "Dinah" and "Dirty Love" for obvious reasons) and I noticed that during the second half of "Camarillo" there is an all-woodwind horn mix, as I didn't hear either trumpet or trombone, but a combination of Ian's alto and tenor saxes with a possibility of a clarinet being thrown in. Kind of cool. It seems that Ian also played flute on "50 50", although that is pretty damn tough to discern (which begs the question: why utilize an instrument in an arrangement when it's not heard at all!). Indirect evidence is that during the live performances of "50 50", Ian occasionally played a flute solo and it seems pretty unlikely he switched between horns in the same song (a la: alto sax for head and flute for solo), save for the obvious "RDNZL" off The Lost Episodes which at the beginning was scored for alto sax, and during the last minute featured a tiny free form clarinet spot along with clarinet harmonization during the last chart sections.

Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
and he also played synthesizer live with Grand Wazoo and 73 Mothers.

.........never made it to an album, though (so far...).


True, unless you count "Picantique '73".

Solliden, Skansen, Stockholm, Sweden
August 21, 1973

FZ--guitar, vocals
Jean-Luc Ponty--violin
George Duke--keyboards
Ian Underwood--woodwinds, synthesizer
Ruth Underwood--percussion
Bruce Fowler--trombone
Tom Fowler--bass
Ralph Humphrey--drums

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:36 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
One nice thing about the Hot Rats cd is that The Gumbo Variations is a few minutes longer on the cd than it is on the original vinyl.
And I still can't accept the official explanation that added sax on The Gumbo Variations was taken from edited-out Underwood sax playing in '69. I have to maintain that there's some sax playing that had to have been done in the '80s (Bobby Martin?) if only because my ears tell me there's a clear difference in the timbre of the sax(es) (?) playing on the Hot Rats CD.

I said this once before, several years ago, and I really got a lot of shit for saying it!

--Bat

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:58 am 
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Batchain1001 wrote:
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
One nice thing about the Hot Rats cd is that The Gumbo Variations is a few minutes longer on the cd than it is on the original vinyl.
And I still can't accept the official explanation that added sax on The Gumbo Variations was taken from edited-out Underwood sax playing in '69. I have to maintain that there's some sax playing that had to have been done in the '80s (Bobby Martin?) if only because my ears tell me there's a clear difference in the timbre of the sax(es) (?) playing on the Hot Rats CD.

I said this once before, several years ago, and I really got a lot of shit for saying it!

--Bat


Obviously Underwood and Martin had (i avoid using "have" since Underwood has long given up on sax) different saxophone playing style as well. Do the sections which sound "different" also sound a bit un-Underwood like in terms of playing style? And if you maintain there's a difference then can you tell me the precise point when the "new" saxophone segues into the "original" Underwood sax? I'd like to give it a precise listen.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:14 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Batchain1001 wrote:
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
One nice thing about the Hot Rats cd is that The Gumbo Variations is a few minutes longer on the cd than it is on the original vinyl.
And I still can't accept the official explanation that added sax on The Gumbo Variations was taken from edited-out Underwood sax playing in '69. I have to maintain that there's some sax playing that had to have been done in the '80s (Bobby Martin?) if only because my ears tell me there's a clear difference in the timbre of the sax(es) (?) playing on the Hot Rats CD.

I said this once before, several years ago, and I really got a lot of shit for saying it!

--Bat

Obviously Underwood and Martin had (i avoid using "have" since Underwood has long given up on sax) different saxophone playing style as well. Do the sections which sound "different" also sound a bit un-Underwood like in terms of playing style? And if you maintain there's a difference then can you tell me the precise point when the "new" saxophone segues into the "original" Underwood sax? I'd like to give it a precise listen.
I'll have a listen to it after supper and tell you just exactly where the differences are. There probably never has been nor will be anyone with FZ's editing ability, for that he stands alone.

But I do know those have to be two different horns on that, Aybe.

--Bat

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:55 am 
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Hey guys, first post...

This sax solo actually made me take up the saxophone. I was just a kid when I heard it but 7 years later it's still one of the greatest sax solos I have ever heard. Im at uni studying music (jazz) now and I bring up this album and FZ whenever I can.

I play tenor and to be honest I have always thought this solo was an alto solo. Either way that altissimo is nuts... and his tone up there is really great.

It sounds like all Underwood to me on the CD. I have the vinyl as well and as great as zappa's editing is the sax solo doesnt feel like its shaped out properly, the extra few minutes on the CD release really sounds more complete to me... but thats just me.

Brilliant solo.... Brilliant album...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:38 am 
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Welcome to the forum, NotA! Thanks for the post.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:52 am 
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yes welcome. and a dman good first post to have.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:04 pm 
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Now I know why God invented the iPod.....so when I am at work and browsing the Zappa forum, I can listen to what the yakkin's all about.

It is a p*nographic solo (the evildoers have taken away the word I wanted to use there). During the intro, the sax voice is articulate and and then goes seamlessly into the vamp.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:13 am 
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Ian lives here in Portland. Have chatted with him several times. Very nice man. Even came over to our studio to give some feedback on my band's CD. Definitely tenor sax on the Gumbo Variations. BTW, I prefer the edited version on the LP to the extended CD version. Just my opinion :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:08 am 
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Hot Rats is dedicated to "Dweezil, Bub, and Gil."
I know who Dweezil is, but anyone know anything about B & G?
I'm interested, as Beefheart wrote the following poem:

bub and gil
bub and gil
bub in india
bub and mat
bub in the wool
bub in a rug
indoor bub - bub in stitches
glass bub - bub in rope
bub in jail
bub in tent
bub in pale
bub on springs - bub's brakes
bub in pajamas
bub's party - with gil and mat and bub in stitches
erect bub
gil's pill
perfumeral

don van vliet, before 1969


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:22 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Hot Rats is dedicated to "Dweezil, Bub, and Gil."
I know who Dweezil is, but anyone know anything about B & G?
I'm interested, as Beefheart wrote the following poem...


There's a little more info here: http://www.idiotbastard.com/HotRats50.htm

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