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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:33 am 
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Batchain1001 wrote:
HJ wrote:
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I just saw it and thought quite the opposite... Just a matter of opinion I always thought the way he dealt with the snakes and crocodiles on his show was cruel.


Sure, sometimes things could appear rather violent, and I am not in a position to tell whether it actually was. I guess I am merely judging "in his favor" here, because I don't think he was just some crazy guy trying to get his one shot at fame by hurting some animals (and babies) in dramatic ways. For that to have been the case, he could not have stayed on for such a long time. Also, it was my understanding that he had a quite good reputation for trying to protect animals.
I just hate the fact that he'll always be remembered with the blemish that he was an irresponsible, out-of-focus fool who put a six-week-old baby in harm's way with a crocodile. That really sucks.
But the truth is he did know how to handle these animals expertly and was careful never to harm them even though he often gave the appearance of mishandling them.

--Batchain


I see where you're coming from there batty, he did so much good for animals and educated many many people, yet to some, he will be remembered for "putting his child at risk". I don't believe for one minute that he would have gone into that crocodile enclosure, if he knew his child would come to any harm, no caring parent would do that. What people have to remember here, is that he dealt with these animals on a day to day basis and they knew who he was. He was familiar to them. OK I know we aint talkin about a Cat or a Hamster here, but he fed them and looked after them. He knew what they were about, he knew how they ticked. He wouldn't have risked his childs life, no way.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:58 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Apparently it struck him in the chest, and the toxins, because they were released directly into his chest cavity, went straight to his internal organs causing them to fail. Apparently if it had stung his leg or his arm or something his survival chances would have been higher.


No Aspy, it was the puncture wound to the heart that killed him. He was dead before the toxins would have taken effect. You are right that he most likely would have survived if it'd struck him a bit to the left or right of the heart, or anywhere else. It was rotten luck that it hit him right in the worst possible spot.

Being in the water, he was out of his element and couldn't rely on his quick reflexes to evade the danger, like he usually could on land.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:05 am 
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Ok, now I don't want to sound like an asshole, we are all sad by the news of his death (he left two young children). But then, look by this side. It wasn't bad luck in the sense that this guy dealt with wild animals for a living. He was subject to a chance of accident all the time. He swimed too closed to a deadly fish, and the worst happened. May him now R.I.P.

It is like when Ayrton Senna, the Brazilian F1 cahmpion died in a terrible accident. People turned him into a myth and stuff, but as a F1 pilot you are subject to fatal "bad luck" events... If you are in the rain, you might expect to get wet...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:27 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Ok, now I don't want to sound like an asshole, we are all sad by the news of his death (he left two young children). But then, look by this side. It wasn't bad luck in the sense that this guy dealt with wild animals for a living. He was subject to a chance of accident all the time. He swimed too closed to a deadly fish, and the worst happened. May him now R.I.P.

It is like when Ayrton Senna, the Brazilian F1 cahmpion died in a terrible accident. People turned him into a myth and stuff, but as a F1 pilot you are subject to fatal "bad luck" events... If you are in the rain, you might expect to get wet...


Nope, this is a gentle creature which only strikes when provoked, and there is footage to show that he did not provoke it. Also there have been only 3 reported cases of anyone ever having been killed by one of these creatures, so it's not like it's a major killer or anything. Sea divers have hitched rides on the backs of Stingrays before today and not been hurt so if it aint threatened by something like that, it's hardly likely to feel threatened by someone swimming near it.
I think you're right that he did deal with this kinda thing for a living, and could have been savaged by a crocodile at any time, but this untimely death was unexpected in the sense that he wasn't dealing with something that attacked anything and everything.

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Last edited by aspy_2nd_bunch on Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:28 am 
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Uncle Bernie wrote:
aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Apparently it struck him in the chest, and the toxins, because they were released directly into his chest cavity, went straight to his internal organs causing them to fail. Apparently if it had stung his leg or his arm or something his survival chances would have been higher.


No Aspy, it was the puncture wound to the heart that killed him. He was dead before the toxins would have taken effect. You are right that he most likely would have survived if it'd struck him a bit to the left or right of the heart, or anywhere else. It was rotten luck that it hit him right in the worst possible spot.

Being in the water, he was out of his element and couldn't rely on his quick reflexes to evade the danger, like he usually could on land.


Yeah Bernie, Ive read that since, thanks for pointing it out. I forgot to correct it. Seems we're being told all manner of things in these stupid news reports, I wish they'd get their facts right.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:02 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Nope, this is a gentle creature which only strikes when provoked, and there is footage to show that he did not provoke it.


In a bitter irony, the man who risked his life handling one of the world's most dangerous reptiles was mortally wounded by a stingray, a usually passive sea creature which attacks only if threatened. Irwin, 44, was stung in the chest by the stingray's barbed tail, which whips up in a reflex action. The accident happened while he was filming a TV documentary called Oceans' Deadliest at Batt Reef, near Port Douglas.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/story/0,,1864565,00.html


If he was stung, the creature might have felt threatned, it is called an
arch-reflex. Maybe he swimmed right over it and it freaked out the fish... We are likely to see this footage soon. It is understandable to look at it as bad luck (you are right those aren't typical human killers and this kind of accident is rare*), but what I've meant is that it could have been a shark, a crocodile, or even a killer Kangoroo, you see... It was his job, to deal with wild animals (and in a provocative way, I believe by what I have been reading here. I don't remember seeing himself on TV, but I've seen a similar program with a crocodile wrestler, a guy with a beard and a hat...)


*Aggression
Dasyatids generally do not attack aggressively or even actively defend themselves. When threatened, their primary reaction is to swim away. However, when they are attacked by predators or stepped on, the barbed stinger in their tail is mechanically whipped up. This attack is normally ineffective against their main predator, sharks.[1] Humans are usually stung in the foot; it is also possible, although less likely, to be stung by brushing against the stinger. Contact with the stinger causes local trauma (from the cut itself), pain and swelling from the venom, and possible infection from parts of the stinger left in the wound. Injuries to humans include, but are not limited to: poisoning, punctures, severed arteries and possible death. Fatal stings, such as that which killed Australian naturalist and television personality Steve Irwin in 2006 (sting to the heart),[2] are extremely rare.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray#Aggression

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:10 am 
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We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:13 am 
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The 74-year old owner of a meat dealer in Germany has committed suicide, Munich police reports.

The company owned by the man is responsible of transporting 40,000 kilos of meat that was up to 4 years over expiration date and turning green, to restaurants and cafes in Germany, Austria, Chech Republic, Netherlands, and Luxemburg.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:16 am 
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BBP wrote:
We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.

Actually I think it is better that way. In respect for his family. I don't have any sick pleasure of watching things such as Face of Death videos...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:39 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
BBP wrote:
We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.

Actually I think it is better that way. In respect for his family. I don't have any sick pleasure of watching things such as Face of Death videos...


Wouldn't want to see him either... In Holland there was hubbub in the press after the "sensation" newspaper Telegraaf had a picture on the cover of the murdered Theo van Gogh, with lots of blood and the two knives sticking out of him. Just sick.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:48 am 
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BBP wrote:
We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.


Where did you read that BBP? I know the coroner and officials have the tape at the moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:49 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
BBP wrote:
We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.

Actually I think it is better that way. In respect for his family. I don't have any sick pleasure of watching things such as Face of Death videos...


I don't derive sick pleasure from watching the demise of anyone either. I'm sure his wife will do whatever she feels best.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:54 am 
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The problem are the international paparazo-media vultures. I bet they are drooling over getting their hands on that tape... Would it be a crime if they show it without express family permission?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:20 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
BBP wrote:
We're not going to see the footage soon; Irwin's manager has prohibited that and, as soon as the investigation is over, the tape will be destroyed.


Where did you read that BBP? I know the coroner and officials have the tape at the moment.


Belgian teletext...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
The problem are the international paparazo-media vultures. I bet they are drooling over getting their hands on that tape... Would it be a crime if they show it without express family permission?


I think it would be awful for his family if that happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a crime.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:22 am 
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And now, the Irwing's Stingray Incident Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1945368730233675374

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:39 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
And now, the Irwing's Stingray Incident Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1945368730233675374


Well that didn't take long :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:56 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
And now, the Irwing's Stingray Incident Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1945368730233675374


That was a helluva stingray!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:17 pm 
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http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_featur ... icle=10888

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:25 pm 
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L_Jon_Hubbub wrote:
http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_features/news/detail.cfm?article=10888

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Wow, I just grabbed Keith Jarrett's Mysteries:Impulse Years to listen to in the car... its gonna be a weird listen now...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:08 pm 
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Bozzio's Whips wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
And now, the Irwing's Stingray Incident Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1945368730233675374


That was a helluva stingray!


Fuck me that was a mad one. He musta been scared.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:13 pm 
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BBP wrote:
The 74-year old owner of a meat dealer in Germany has committed suicide, Munich police reports.

The company owned by the man is responsible of transporting 40,000 kilos of meat that was up to 4 years over expiration date and turning green, to restaurants and cafes in Germany, Austria, Chech Republic, Netherlands, and Luxemburg.


That's bad news, BBP.

Now they can't feed him with his own rotten meat. What an asshole !

I only buy meat at my local butcher for years now. Hmmmm...today my wife made roulades from cow meat filled with hot mustard from Dweezildorf, onions and pickled gherkins. Sorry, I'm starting drooling again...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Sounds really good Fritz!

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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Bozzio's Whips wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
And now, the Irwing's Stingray Incident Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1945368730233675374


That was a helluva stingray!


Fuck me that was a mad one. He musta been scared.


Should the Irwin/Stingray tape have been released or not*?

*Just a fictitious head news...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5326802.stm

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:42 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
L_Jon_Hubbub wrote:
http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_features/news/detail.cfm?article=10888

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Wow, I just grabbed Keith Jarrett's Mysteries:Impulse Years to listen to in the car... its gonna be a weird listen now...


I've got Tarik on the headphones right now. I really don't know much about Redman, but I was introduced to his playing when I got to see him up close on the second stage at Newport in 2003, just him, bass and drums. In the middle of the set, he started using what I think was a snake charmer flute (can't think of the proper name for it). Wish I had bought one of his CDs at the festival because it took me at least a year to finally find any of his solo stuff in the stores. To this day, Tarik is the only CD I've found. I'm not a real jazz expert like some of you out there, so I welcome any suggestions for further Redman listening.

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