Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:31 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2002 6:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 5:56 pm
Posts: 3
Frank's basic CD catalog is currently a patchwork of excellent to horrible digital masters.<br><br>A proper overhaul needs to be done before the tapes deteriorate forever! I imagine that if a "new" label releases Frank's catalog...then this could be a top priority for the ZFT?<br><br>For the record...all of the compact discs mastered by Spence Chrislu are OUTSTANDING. I would love to hear any other albums he may have remastered besides:<br><br>Apostrophe (gold-disc)<br>One Size Fits All (gold-disc)<br>You Are What You Is (2000 edition)<br>Tinseltown Rebellion (2000 edition)<br><br>These titles set an audio standard that can sadly not be matched by most major record labels!<br><br>However, several FZ titles are in need of *major* restoration:<br><br>Weasels Ripped My Flesh<br>Uncle Meat<br>Sheik Yerbouti<br>Chunga's Revenge<br>Zoot Allures<br><br>...and several other 60's-70's titles suffer from *massive over-compression and nasty digital echo*. Let's face it, Frank and Bob goofed up royally on these. Their You Are What You Is and Tinseltown Rebellion have since been replaced by brilliant Chrislu remasters. <br><br>A clean transfer of ALL the 60's-70's albums is totally necessary!<br><br>Frank's CD version of "Burnt Weeny Sandwich" has tape damage and dropouts that appear on later vinyl pressings...but NOT the original pressings. This means that the original un-equalized tape marked "do not use" was NOT used for the current CD release, and LP master was instead. This should not be the case with *any* remaster!<br><br>Cruising With Ruben And The Jets should be released in it's original mix (90-95% of fans agree on this).<br><br>A lot of albums would also benefit from a remix. The Fillmore East '71 track on the YCDTOSA 6 (mixed by Spence Chislu) sounds SUPERB! Surely, the whole album can be remixed and expanded to sound like that? The digital-echoey, patchy mess that we have right now is not acceptable.<br><br>We're Only In It For The Money was transferred to digital multi-track tape for the 80's remix...surely a remix of the *original* album can be done from this tape???<br><br><br>The list goes on, but if you are thinking about making any changes or revisions - never hesitate to ask the fans! We tend to agree with each other 90% of the time.<br><br><br>Frank's music deserves to be preserved - correctly!<br><br>(say that 10 times fast)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:16 pm
Posts: 951
Location: Wandering aimlessly through the American wasteland...
[quote author=josh link=board=wishList&num=1031722716&start=0#1 date=09/10/02 at 22:13:54]<br> Most of Ryko's remastered '95 CDs sound fine to me! But I agree that Cruisin' With Rubin And The Jets needs to be remastered, badly; I'm curious to hear the original vinyl mix of the album, it has to be better than the CD version. I can't stand the '84 drum and bass overdubbed additions; in fact, I hardly ever listen to Cruisin' because of this! :-/<br>[/quote]<br>"You can't polish a turd" - my friend once said about Harley Davidsons.  He's not my friend no mo'!<br><br>This re-mastering, DVD, 6-ch, "Well Toss My Salad!  This CD sounds sooooooo good, I'd be happy to pay $75.00 for it!" shit is just that - a bunch of bullshit!<br><br>Let's shit or get off the pot, ZFT, and concetrate on releasing un-released stuff instead of, well.....u know.  And I don't knowz bouts y'alls, but I could go for a little cheepnis here.  <br><br>Note from your's drooly - The use of the word "cheepnis" is being used in favor of something and not as what the composer intended.  So sue me.

_________________
Free at last, free at last, great googleymoogley I am free at last!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 9:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:17 am
Posts: 866
Don't ryko own the main catalogue?<br><br>Why would the ZFT invest $1000's remixing Ryko's product?<br><br>You'd be better posting your rant to Ryko.<br><br>Personally I think most of Franks approved masters are fine. Sure some could do with the odd tweak but if they were good enough for Frank’s ears then there're good enough for mine.<br><br>Maybe you might not complain if you got yourself some nice audio gear. I just love listening to Frank’s music on my studio monitors. Try it, you'll love it, it's a way of life  ;)<br>


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:04 pm
Posts: 98
Location: CA
For the most part, I agree that the CD catalog is fine. If I could have it my way, I would see that some particular albums get the treatment you mention, JWB, but it wouldn't be worth doing the whole catalog or anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 5:56 pm
Posts: 3
<br>[quote author=Ringo link=board=wishList&num=1031722716&start=0#3 date=09/11/02 at 12:23:28]<br>Don't ryko own the main catalogue?<br><br>Why would the ZFT invest $1000's remixing Ryko's product?<br><br>You'd be better posting your rant to Ryko.<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>The ZFT owns Frank's albums...not Rykodisc...get real!<br><br>Just a bunch of 60's-70's albums need to be re-done. Not all of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 12:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:17 am
Posts: 866
So why did Ryko announce it purchased the entire zappa catalogue of more than 60 albums in 1994 & underwent a $44 million restructuring?<br><br>Would Ryko really pay $44 million for a licensing deal?<br>I think not.<br><br>Get real yourself.<br>


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:20 pm
Posts: 697
Aw,shucks!<br>    Let's just get Tony Arnold(who re-mastered the first King Crimson)to do his magic on the original mix  "Cruising With ..."CD and maybe a few others ,and leave well enough alone.(Unless the original "Lumpy Gravy" can be put out!)<br>    Did you guys(and gals) hear that re-mastering?   NO HISS!!!   Hell, the album had hiss!  How'd that guy do it?  Who knows? But it's now a brilliant sounding disc,and that's something to look into for any future re-masters or releases of older stuff.<br>     It really IS incredible!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 3:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:04 pm
Posts: 98
Location: CA
<br>[quote author=penguini link=board=wishList&num=1031722716&start=0#7 date=09/13/02 at 19:47:57]<br>Aw,shucks!<br>    Let's just get Tony Arnold(who re-mastered the first King Crimson)to do his magic on the original mix  "Cruising With ..."CD and maybe a few others ,and leave well enough alone.(Unless the original "Lumpy Gravy" can be put out!)<br>    Did you guys(and gals) hear that re-mastering?   NO HISS!!!   Hell, the album had hiss!  How'd that guy do it?  Who knows? But it's now a brilliant sounding disc,and that's something to look into for any future re-masters or releases of older stuff.<br>     It really IS incredible!<br>[/quote]<br><br>If the source had hiss, and now that remaster doesn't, that does not sound good to me. I would not want any no-noised music.  >:( (Especially music as important as this FZ stuff!)<br><br>-----------------------<br><br>Here are two links re: what needs to be redone or "upgraded":<br>http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85821131/vinylvscds/goodwin.html<br>http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85821131/vinylvscds/jwb2.html<br><br>In my earlier post, downplayed the faults of the Ryko catalog. I'd really like to say that there are a whole bunch of albums that need different versions released and/or need to be remastered, etc. <br><br>Basically, when I posted before, I was hesitant because, hell, there is so much people can request that goes on forever, and, in the end, new material is probably appreciated more. However, there we have the "state of the catalog" right now... Hopefully, many things can be improved upon...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2002 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 2:10 pm
Posts: 538
<br>[quote author=josh link=board=wishList&num=1031722716&start=0#1 date=09/10/02 at 22:13:54]<br> Most of Ryko's remastered '95 CDs sound fine to me! But I agree that Cruisin' With Rubin And The Jets needs to be remastered, badly; I'm curious to hear the original vinyl mix of the album, it has to be better than the CD version. I can't stand the '84 drum and bass overdubbed additions; in fact, I hardly ever listen to Cruisin' because of this! :-/<br>[/quote]<br>Buy it if you can find it, though it might be expensive. I found a near-mint original pressing for $30, but it was worth the investment.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:20 pm
Posts: 697
What's this,Dancin Fool?<br>     You want the "Hiss" of the tape on the re-mastered version of your favorite Lps?   This King Crimson "In The Court..."Cd re-issue doesn't have any musical (tonal,or otherwise)damage from the loss of that hiss and re-mastering process.That is why I suggested the process.That's like wanting a CD with the crackles of your copy of the LP on it!(Hell,get an old LP or cassette of it and CD-R it!) Even back in the 1970's and 1960's Frank Zappa and other artists struggled with "hiss" reduction during recording...your argument makes no sense to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:04 pm
Posts: 98
Location: CA
Hey, I don't have that King Crimson CD, so I can't comment on it...<br><br>First of all, I don't think hiss is a problem on Zappa tapes.<br><br>My "argument" makes sense to me, though I didn't present anything really. AFAIK, if the hiss is removed, that means they used No-Noise, which does detract from the sound quality. It strangles the high end, leaving a flat sound, I'd say. But hey, I actually am no expert on the subject, so if you want a comprehensive understanding, go to someone else or something...<br><br>Upon re-reading your posts, penguini, it seems that you're referring to some other process, perhaps... I don't know. It seems like you don't know either, but you have the CD, so that's more than me. I can't comment. I said "as far as I know"...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:58 pm
Posts: 2142
Location: Birmingham, AL
<br>[quote author=JWB link=board=wishList&num=1031722716&start=0#0 date=09/10/02 at 21:38:36]<br>However, several FZ titles are in need of *major* restoration:<br><br>Weasels Ripped My Flesh<br>Uncle Meat<br>Sheik Yerbouti<br>Chunga's Revenge<br>Zoot Allures<br>[/quote]<br><br>Hiya, JWB!  It's me, Dan Watkins!  Remember me from affz?  Anyway, looks like I'm one of the few here that agrees with you 100%.  The only thing I don't get is what's wrong with the Weasels CD.  I haven't noticed any problems with that one.  Chunga's sounds okay to me as well.  The only difference I've noticed with that one is some added digital reverb on Ian's sax solo on the title track.<br><br>
Quote:
<br>Cruising With Ruben And The Jets should be released in it's original mix (90-95% of fans agree on this).<br>
<br><br>Yep.  With the current trend of remastering old albums, FZ's CD catalog is sounding more and more dated.  <br><br>
Quote:
<br>A lot of albums would also benefit from a remix. The Fillmore East '71 track on the YCDTOSA 6 (mixed by Spence Chislu) sounds SUPERB! Surely, the whole album can be remixed and expanded to sound like that? The digital-echoey, patchy mess that we have right now is not acceptable.<br>
<br><br>Eh, I highly doubt much could be done with The Fillmore East.  I think that album was just recorded very poorly to start with.<br><br>But, I definitely agree with you.  I think that properly preserving his back catalog is much more important than releasing the 400th version of "Stink Foot."  Hey, I like new material too, but I'd rather have improved versions of Sheik Yerbouti, Ruben, Zoot Allures, and Uncle Meat to sink my teeth into.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:17 am
Posts: 866
MrBickford you are bloody right!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:17 am
Posts: 866
I still don't know you lot keep talking about it being a ZFT must when as I said before they don't own the main catalogue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 13
Location: New Jersey
I agree with JWB! Frank had remastered most of the catalog in the mid to late eighties. Over ten years ago now!! Frank was experimental and was using new technology at the time, however CD mastering technology has come a long way since 1993. If Frank was alive today, I believe some titles would be overhauled using todays latest technology (Zoot Allues, Uncle Meat, Sheik Yerbouti, Fillmore 71...).<br><br>In regards to Ruben & the Jets, I have a mint copy of the original LP, and I've got to tell you the drums sound bad on most tracks!!! After listening to it you know why Frank replaced them. I would love to hear the original on CD, but it would need to be overhauled. Perhaphs both mixes could end up on 1 CD?!? The singles from Ruben are different than the LP mixes!! Rzzzzz<br><br>I would love to hear most of the catalog remastered (maybe even remixed). But I am more excited about prospects of DVD releases, & the entire concerts Vaulterative promises.<br><br>If Frank had more time, I'm sure he would have taken more time before calling the 1993 releases 'definitive'.<br><br>Mr. Chungas<br>


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:47 am
Posts: 3362
Location: Netherlands
I dunno... a couple of releases could be better ('Ruben' is a nice example of this), but the vast majority is fine enough for me. A lot of these so-called imperfections of the '95 Ryko releases are only obvious to people who either own expensive high end audio equipment or have the original vinyl releases to compare them with. For example, I don't hear anything wrong with WRMF or Chunga's. Perhaps too much reverb compared to the vinyl, but that isn't bothering me in the least..<br><br>Collecting the entire FZ catalog has been expensive enough. Not that I regret buying all these discs (hell, no!), but I wouldn't buy all sixty releases a second time. And cd's are on their way out anyway, the record industry will probably come up with some spiffy new format (like DVD-A), forcing us to buy all these discs again anyway. Now, that might be a good time to do some remastering again, but at the moment, I'd rather see some releases with NEW music.

_________________
"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:35 am
Posts: 2
Location: Texas
Could this be the place where I, once again, ask for a CD issue of MOTHERMANIA? How about some mono mixes of the original MOI albums?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:38 am
Posts: 90
well that partivcualr list won't get remastered 'cause most of 'em aren't that hurtin'. PLEASE tell me just WHAT it is, for instance, about Cruising with Ruben & The Jets that is so inadequate? I'm not kidding. I put it on just a compla days ago, it wounds stellar. And I really truly doubt you have vastly superior aural facilities than I. TInsel twon Rebellion wounds good if not absolutely superior in the most recent Ryko CD. The EEMI one is outstanding. Chunga's revenge, an album I sorta remember liking in the day is something i cannot listen to on CD. We son't be seeing it either. Probably was not a very big item when new and fresh. Also probably not the easiest thing to remaster; the original master had some problems; it was sent to some facility in the UK as I recall, tho not sure precisely what was the issue, though I believe it had to do with a {EQ}balance problem [which led to the CD having this high-end boost, thus the atrocious result.] One more note: there is so I hear an earlier master job of "You Are What You Is" which has received a lot of comment; no room for a lot of the sound, etc... Mr Chrislu did in fact redo it , and th resluts are quite good. Goblin Girl, the outchorus {with the "Doreen" overlay}, especially, sounds marvelous.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group