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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:18 am 
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Why not have a kind word for all our smoking friends here ?<br><br>Let me start:<br><br>"Have a nice cancer ! "<br><br>How's that for gentleness ?    8)

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:40 am 
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Why thank you Mij!!! You have a nice trip to the hospital after being hit by a ciggarette truck, while gently and passively crossing the road. :-*

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:03 pm 
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Location: Québec country (let me dream...)
What ? It wasn't nice enough ?   ;D<br><br>GOSH ! And I tried my best !   ;D<br><br>Let me tell you something that'll warm your broken heart...<br><br>I smoked for 19 years, from age 13 to 32. I'm 49 now. If I was to be told I have an incurable disease, I guess I'll start smoking again !<br><br>Cause you see, although I'm not even tempted to light up one, I can say that it never leaves your mind and you tend to remember the good times you had with a cigarette (How cool I look !). You don't remember the bad times you had. You see, it's like a better, like a compulsive casino player. This guy (and I knew some) always tell you about what he gained, but never tell a word about what he lost.<br><br>I have plenty of friends who smoke. My bassman tried to stop and was not able to do so. Naturally, his smoking has increased dramatically. And he coughs so hard, you wouldn't believe it ! But, he looks so cool !  8)

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:06 pm 
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[quote author=Mij link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=45#58 date=04/07/03 at 15:03:03]What ? It wasn't nice enough ?   ;D<br><br>GOSH ! And I tried my best !   ;D<br><br>Let me tell you something that'll warm your broken heart...<br><br>I smoked for 19 years, from age 13 to 32. I'm 49 now. If I was to be told I have an incurable disease, I guess I'll start smoking again !<br><br>Cause you see, although I'm not even tempted to light up one, I can say that it never leaves your mind and you tend to remember the good times you had with a cigarette (How cool I look !). You don't remember the bad times you had. You see, it's like a better, like a compulsive casino player. This guy (and I knew some) always tell you about what he gained, but never tell a word about what he lost.<br><br>I have plenty of friends who smoke. My bassman tried to stop and was not able to do so. Naturally, his smoking has increased dramatically. And he coughs so hard, you wouldn't believe it ! But, he looks so cool !  8)[/quote]<br><br>You are so damn sweet mij :)<br>

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:14 pm 
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[quote author=eyebnez link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=45#59 date=04/07/03 at 15:06:31]<br><br>You are so damn sweet mij :)<br>[/quote]<br><br>Are you a bit like me ?<br><br>I have so much fun here in this forum. I LOVE the sense of humor developped by the vast majority of the members. There's no harm done. I LOVE the freedom we have to say what we want without any censorship. And we are mostly all good people (well, two or three exceptions, yeah yeah...).<br><br>I could argue with one of you on war or guns and it would look as if we were the best enemies on this planet. And, in another thread, we agree on something else. I don't know for you, but what is said in a topic don't affect (in general) what I'll say to the same person in another one. Do you feel the same way ? Or do I need to see a shrink ?      ;D       ;D       ;D

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:22 pm 
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[quote author=Mij link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#60 date=04/07/03 at 15:14:49]<br><br>Are you a bit like me ?<br><br>I have so much fun here in this forum. I LOVE the sense of humor developped by the vast majority of the members. There's no harm done. I LOVE the freedom we have to say what we want without any censorship. And we are mostly all good people (well, two or three exceptions, yeah yeah...).<br><br>I could argue with one of you on war or guns and it would look as if we were the best enemies on this planet. And, in another thread, we agree on something else. I don't know for you, but what is said in a topic don't affect (in general) what I'll say to the same person in another one. Do you feel the same way ? Or do I need to see a shrink ?      ;D       ;D       ;D [/quote]<br><br>Na' you dont need a shrink(I dont guess). Yes that is reason I absolutely love this forum. Heated discussions, Laughing the next thread it's all so much fun not to mention highly addictive. ;D ;D<br>

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:24 pm 
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Location: USA
And I still love to Smoke!!

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:41 pm 
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[quote author=jimmie d link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#63 date=04/07/03 at 15:37:31][center]<br>He probably was able...he just didn't want to. I firmly believe that we do what we want to do when it comes to most things in life, especially when it comes to quitting a habit. I quit smoking because I wanted to. I believe that, in most cases, there's nothing that anyone can say to convince another to quit. Smokers who don't care how non-smokers feel about second-hand smoke may wanna try their own reality check. In New York it's the law. People like Mr. Nez would be expected not to smoke rather than band members and fans having to expect to inhale second-hand smoke just because they're in a club. So converse to his "humble" opinion, he would be the one who would have to leave the club in order to light one up. Wise up...times are changin'...we be movin' fo'wad.[/center][/quote]<br><br>I'm sorry I still like to go to clubs and drink lots of beer and smoke lots of ciggs. To bad fer the NY's not being able to smoke in bars.(Bad Bad). But I do agree with you when you say no one can quit until they decide to. But because you did. does'nt mean everyone else should follow. You be Movin on.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:19 pm 
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[quote author=jimmie d link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#65 date=04/07/03 at 16:02:21]<br>Re-read my posts. I never invited or directed anyone to follow my lead. I've simply taken you to task for your uncaring attitude regarding second-hand smoke. You did write that you don't care...right?<br>[/quote]<br><br>Yes I did. I dont think I denied it either right? You call it humble opinion I call it honesty and stating my opinion on the subject. if you want to continue to pick me out of the crowd of pro-smokers go ahead. but frankly it's getting kinda redundant. I have no need at all to argue this futile subject with you.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:12 am 
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[quote author=jimmie d link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#67 date=04/07/03 at 17:04:33][center]<br><br>I was in error. You're not humble. Please forgive me.[/center]<br>[/quote]<br><br>you are forgiving. I just have one question. You stated earlier that you where in fact a smoker, so I was wondering when you were in a bar checking out a band or whatever. DID YOU step outside to smoke and frown on people who remained inside to smoke? another one would you have left a FZ cocert because he lit up a cigg. on stage and done as you described as stinking up the joint. Concrats on quiting smoking and I wish you all the best, really :D but to pick and poke at me for my opinion is pretty silly dont you think. or would you rather me say your right, I should not smoke in bars because the band might be allergic. If this is the answer you are waiting for then, I'm sorry your in for a long wait. So again congrats on quiting.  ;D Keep it up!!!!!<br>

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:52 am 
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[quote author=jimmie d link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#69 date=04/08/03 at 12:07:18]<br>This isn't about me...it's about you and your pompous uncaring attitude towards your fellowman. You can come up with hypothetical situations as a way to implicate (in your mind) hypocrisy, but I've made no attempt to influence you to quit smoking. To the contrary, I've stated that I believe that, in most cases, trying to convince another to quit a habit is futile.<br><br>PS: I give Mr. Mung and members from non-English speaking countries a pass on the language...so how about usin' a spellchecker so that I'm sure that I understand what you're trying to articulate. I'm losing interest, as it is.[/quote]<br><br><br>Oh hitting where it hurts... my spelling.<br>You have made plenty of attempts to condemn me for my opinion. And yet you have not answed my questions.

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:14 am 
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Jimmy D, when you say "non-English speaking countries" you do mean America too right. You people in the U.S. of A. speak "Bastardised English" and that's different. I don't hold this against anybody in paticular, but English is our language and you don't use it quite the same so it isn't really English.

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:20 am 
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Bastardised English. I like that ;D. We Americans should come up with our own labeled language. Like where I grew up. It was settled by the Scottish, so you have alot of weird accents there. I can see your point here because we dont really speak ENGLISH.

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:29 am 
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[quote author=poncho link=board=general;num=1046955851;start=60#72 date=04/08/03 at 13:14:21]Jimmy D, when you say "non-English speaking countries" you do mean America too right. You people in the U.S. of A. speak "Bastardised English" and that's different. I don't hold this against anybody in paticular, but English is our language and you don't use it quite the same so it isn't really English.[/quote]<br><br>"England and America - two countries separated by a common language" - Will Rogers<br><br>OK, Americans speak American.

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:20 am 
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Studies of second-hand smoke effects are flawed and inconclusive<br><br> NEW BEDFORD -- About three weeks ago Mr. Edward Sweda of the Tobacco Control Resource Center sent me about an inch of written material to support his anti-smoker positions. As promised in these pages, I have reviewed that material and I am reporting back what I learned. <br> Much of the material sent by Mr. Sweda reports on specific sleazy tactics employed by the tobacco interests in order to confuse the issues. While I concur with Mr. Sweda and most other alert people that the tobacco interests have often employed misleading tactics and weak science, one of the contentions is disturbing: The claim is repeatedly made that since the scientists are being funded by tobacco interests, their research results are obviously false and biased. <br><br> One of the studies actually threw out all tobacco-funded research efforts because the results were "inconsistent" with the anti-smoker research and because the research was funded by Big Tobacco! They did not even raise one point about what might have caused the "inconsistencies." They just ignored the substantial research done by the opposition for no valid scientific reason. <br> But most anti-smoker activists, including Mr. Sweda, earn their entire livelihood by lobbying against tobacco use; does this mean that their research results are obviously false and biased? I don't think so. Mr. Sweda probably works for a tobacco control group because he believes in the correctness of his cause. Most tobacco industry-supported researchers are also probably good and honest people who believe in the correctness of their positions. So let's all stop this ad hominem attack business and look at as many of the facts as we can discern. <br> The first issue is does environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) cause lung cancer in non-smokers. The research in this area is full of flaws. Tobacco companies have funded several large studies that show no effect. <br> Anti-tobacco activists have funded many more studies which show small, typically statistically insignificant effects. For instance, one study sent by Mr. Sweda claimed a 30 percent increase in risk to exposed non-smokers. <br> This high risk figure was headlined in the summary abstract of the study. <br> Buried in the study was the finding that lifetime non-smokers who had been heavily exposed to ETS during childhood exhibited a 25 percent reduction in risk. <br> Does this mean that exposure during childhood "immunizes" children from the development of lung cancer? Certainly not. In fact, neither finding had any statistical significance. Both findings were statistical "noise" and should be largely ignored. <br> But even if one were to accept only the anti-smoker results and throw away "inconsistent" results, the risk of developing lung cancer to an average white male lifetime nonsmoker never exposed to ETS would be .010 and the risk of developing lung cancer to an average white male lifetime non-smoker who lived with a smoker would be between .011 and .013 depending on which of the flawed studies one believes. Given the problems of data collection and test design, I see no reason to either believe or disbelieve that ETS causes lung cancer in nonsmoking, otherwise healthy adults. <br> The second issue is does ETS cause heart problems in non-smokers. This is certainly much more complex an issue: There are many "causes" of heart disease and test designs continue to be very poor at isolating the effect of ETS. A very plausible theory has been hypothesized for the physiological mechanisms involved in ETS affecting and initiating heart disease, but the studies are so obviously flawed that I cannot quite believe them. <br> All of the quantitative studies I've read rely on questionnaires to assess the level of ETS exposure. A person in a hospital dying of heart disease or a relative of a person already deceased from stroke would understandably tend to overstate the amount of ETS exposure the patient had experienced. A healthy, happy person might understandably tend to understate the amount of ETS exposure they had experienced. This could easily account for the research findings. <br> The one study that focused on the chemistry of ETS did not even try to adjust for air pollution, exposure to fireplace or campfire smoke (which would very likely have similar effects on platelet aggregation as ETS), etc. I would say that the jury is still out on this issue, also. <br> The end result for me at least is that I am undecided based on scientific evidence. I admit that research studies in this area are extremely difficult to design, but if we are to obtain definitive answers on these important questions, such efforts should continue. <br> Meanwhile, public policy should not be based on the straw foundations that have been laid. Restaurant owners should determine the needs of their clientele and meet them. Most restaurants would be nonsmoking, since most Americans do not smoke; but some restaurants would cater to the desires of their smoking clientele and the resultant mix would reflect and accommodate the health concerns and the comfort concerns of all Americans.

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 Post subject: Re: NO SMOKING
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:44 am 
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PASSIVE SMOKING DOES CAUSE LUNG CANCER, DO NOT LET THEM FOOL YOU<br><br>The World Health Organization (WHO) has been publicly accused of suppressing information. Its opponents say that WHO has withheld from publication its own report that was aimed at but supposedly failed to scientifically prove that there is an association between passive smoking, or environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), and a number of diseases, lung cancer in particular. Both statements are untrue.<br><br>The study in question is a case-control study on the effects of ETS on lung cancer risk in European populations, which has been carried out over the last seven years by 12 research centres in 7 European countries under the leadership of WHO's cancer research branch -- the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). <br><br>The results of this study, which have been completely misrepresented in recent news reports, are very much in line with the results of similar studies both in Europe and elsewhere: passive smoking causes lung cancer in non-smokers. <br><br>The study found that there was an estimated 16% increased risk of lung cancer among non-smoking spouses of smokers. For workplace exposure the estimated increase in risk was 17%. However, due to small sample size, neither increased risk was statistically significant. Although, the study points towards a decreasing risk after cessation of exposure.<br><br>In February 1998, according to usual scientific practice, a paper reporting the main study results was sent to a reputable scientific journal for consideration and peer review. That is why the full report is not yet publicly available. Under the circumstances, however, the authors of the study have agreed to make an abstract of the report available to the media.<br><br>"It is extremely important to note that the results of this study are consistent with the results of major scientific reviews of this question published during 1997 by the government of Australia, the US Environmental Protection Agency and the State of California", said Neil Collishaw, Acting Chief of WHO's Tobacco or Health Unit in Geneva. "A major meta-analysis of passive smoking and lung cancer was also published in the British Medical Journal in 1997. From these and other previous reviews of the scientific evidence emerges a clear global scientific consensus &#8212; passive smoking does cause lung cancer and other diseases", he concluded.<br><br>"IARC is proud of the careful scientific work done by the European scientific team responsible for this study", commented Dr Paul Kleihues, the Agency's director. "We are very concerned about the false and misleading statements recently published in the mass media. It is no coincidence that this misinformation originally appeared in the British press just before the No-Tobacco Day in the United Kingdom and the scheduled publication of the report of the British Scientific Committee on Tobacco and Health". <br><br>Further information on the health effects of passive smoking is available in WHO's Advisory Kit for World No-Tobacco Day 1998 on the World Wide Web at www.who.ch/ntday, as well as from WHO's Tobacco or Health Unit, Programme on Substance Abuse.<br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>For further information, journalists can contact Igor Rozov, Health Communications and Public Relations WHO, Geneva. Telephone (41 22) 791 2532. Fax (41 22) 791 4858. E-mail rozovi@who.ch or Dr Rodolfo Saracci, IARC, Lyon, France, e-mail saracci@iarc.fr <br><br>

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