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Really slime, just going to act like a dick about it, grow some hair...

I will run this by my sister for final word on the subject she holds a PHD in Clinical Physiology from Brown and was a Professor at Harvard for 10 years and now owns and runs a National Business that does Statistical Analysis of research for private Companies, States Governments, and Federal government.

What specifically do I need to ask to settle this:

1.) Genetic connection to human behavior
2.) Is pedophilic behavior being mistaken for consenting sex
3.) Is it rape if the victim is with in the age of consent
4.) Is it likely the Government would do things to people who were discovered to have a genetic marker for pedophile?
Please make suggestion, thank you...

You could ask the connection between environmental influence over behaviour (example, being abused during childhood or being in the Mothers helped to loose a screw?)...

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4.) Is it likely the Government would do things to people who were discovered to have a genetic marker for pedophile?

- do a Frankie?

- think of the concentration camps in California constructed during WWII to house potentially dangerous oriental citizens.

- all inmates shared GENETIC MARKERS differing from the rest of the population.

- imagine YOU ARE A GUEST AT CAMP REAGAN.

- check out the Wannsee conference papers for further suggestions.

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We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971

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Did anyone hear of those 300 or so Tuskegee army and civilian black men that were tested for Hep.C,Syphillus,and then treated with sugar pills,just to see how the disease would progress? Balls the size of melons n' stuff? That was done because,at the time,the army thought they were of sub-genetic quality and therefor a better canidate to study.At the same time the Muskeegee airmen were heroe's back then? (I could have the towns reversed,but one's in Oklahoma and the other's in Mississippi,USA) Anyway I thought that the kind of research you would have to do,to get tangable results,would be brutal at the very least and had been discarded by science as being obscene long ago.Though still a theory in humans and the application to plants and animals is still in debate ethically,where does genetics help a pedophile? To me that would be like tryin' to breed the gay out of someone or isolating that "gene".That also could be used in war and scare fare too. IMHO
So how does science stand or view genetics nowadays beyond plants and animals anyhow? Anyone?

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

The water is even further muddied by new research that is investigating the influence of peers on development. Traditionally, when people have tried to argue one way or another about the influence of nurture over nature a lot of the focus was on how parents influenced their children's development (behaviourally as opposed to genetically), whereas it's becoming clear that peers have a very strong influence.

If you only consider familial influence and decide it's not as significant as you believed that is not a proof that nurture is less significant than you believed. My point being, that before you decide what effect environment has on development, you need to be clear just what the environment is and everything that it encompasses.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

That is actually right in her wheelhouse since most of her research has to do with drug abuse and the contributing factors, I have not yet recieved an answere from her if she has time for my little QA, we will see...

As to the rest of you who choose to attack me, remember I suggested that a genetic connection was possible and in my opinion likely, I also volunteered that I had seen documentaries on studies that were leaning towards a genetic link towards some psychological behavior.

It was not I that went Ape Shit Crazy and started saying you all were full of shit as I was told, although after a certain amount of wacky stuff I read I did call bullshit.

I am still astonished at how you all steered away from your original positions that Roy was being set up and that somehow it should be ok for old men to be with teenage girls (yuk) and decided to ride this possible genetic link train instead.

It reminds me of roaches scrambling out of the kitchen when the lights come on...

The stupid thing about this is that normal, balanced, loving people have to state the obvious - child abuse is vile.

I'm sorry about your experiences growing up with a "bad seed".

But what's really upsetting is your persistent hint that the government should start weeding out people based on supposed "genetic markers" for pedophilia. That's a totally Nazi idea, which fits scarily with the imagery in the quote above. You know - the propaganda films that juxtaposed images of rats, cockroaches and Jews.

Are we talking about the FINAL SOLUTION to the pedophile problem?

What next?

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We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971

One thing I am pretty sure, as of today, there is no such a thing as a genetic marker for pedophile behaviour. And even if there were, they would not be guarantee that someone would become a pedophile for bearing it on his/her genotype.

Once I saw an argument being put forward about Mozart. He had several mild deviations of behaviour (coprolalia = tendency to talk about feces and other excrements; ecolalia=repeating words or sentences again and again uncontrollably; and other idiosyncrasies that were caricatured on the Amadeus movie). Was he to be born on our potential transhumanist/eugenist futchum and if his embryo was to be screened in a GATTACA-like fashion (I once more suggest everyone intereste in this Nature-Nurture debate to watch this Hollywood movie, GATTACA), maybe we would not have Mozart's oeuvre around, and thus no Mozart Ballet for the MOI...

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I never said that…people asked if a pedophile could be cured, I suggested only if it was discovered to be genetic that maybe then they could cure them…otherwise the behavior is so deep seated in their anti social (sociopathic) behavior that it would not. No one has ever claimed to be able to curb this behavior in any way, it is actually the opposite they are so well hidden and seem to have long criminal histories before they get caught. At that point their whole life is a façade set up to find ways to commit violent crimes against easily targeted weaker human beings.

I went on to suggest that anyone who thought the government may try to some how “expunge” these people are not being realistic. The reason being that all sorts of deformities have been identified and sometimes before birth and yet people with disabilities are living longer better lives in greater numbers than ever in history. That works strongly against any theory of weeding anyone out.

What twisting of words you made of my “cock roaches” comment my friend, the cock roaches are those who keep suggesting that it is somehow ok for old men to have sex with very young teenage girls, they now have diverted this conversation to genetics and no longer seem to be able to sustain the argument that age of consent is arbitrary and old men should be having sex with girls as young as 13 years old and it would somehow be justified, a lot of those same people thought somehow there was a logical explanation for a twice convicted sex offender who is 68 tears old to have had sex with a child under 14…yuk.

Great point Mr.GG, you pick two movies I really enjoy, the seldom seen GATTACA held up a similar point made in Rocky IV and one of my strongest beliefs, that for any given task the manufactured or scientifically sculpted person or team will never be the equivalent of the person or group who are using raw talent and heart. As bad as those who cipher and calculate think that a formulated system is the best, there will always be Cinderella’s that somehow over come and beat the odds, no matter what obstacles are in front of them.

Also Amadeus is definitely in my all time top 20 films, I try and watch it at least once a year...

Amadeus is a bunch of gobbidy-gook. I loved it until I studied musicology and got my facts straight about the man. Now it's offensive to both Mozart and Salieri, besides being free from facts.
And the play is better. I read it in high school.

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But it's an excellent well written Drama, with Oscar nominated acting...I never take seriously these historical rewrites, they are entertainment.

Anonymous is excellent if you like good period piece dramas, the story line that Shakespeare never wrote any of his plays that someone else wrote them and he took the credit since the actual writer had to remain Anonymous (8 Plooks out of 10).

Some other great dramas all 10 Plookers);

Joy Luck Club (maybe one of the best scripts ever written)
Pride & the Prejudice
The Last Emperor
Sense & Sensibility
Memoirs of a Geisha

A 68 year old man messing with a 14 year old girl is wrong.

Doesnt mean you have to stop listening to the tracks he played on.

Wagner was an anti semite and inspired the nazis, doesnt mean his music isnt good.

How many of you would be making excuses if you walked in on a 68 year old and a 14 year old doing it. Would you stand there and theorise about the rights and wrongs of the act or would you tell the dirty old fuk to stop?

Really some of you people need to stop making excuse for the bloke because he was once a member of the Mothers.

If he did get killed by another inmate would we hear about it via the media?
I don't mean "Ex-Zappa Bass player murdered in Jail". But would it get out that he had died?
I guess my question is general but Roy's case is more unique because of his professional career.

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"drums are too noisy, 'n you've got no corners to hide in"

Since Jimmy Carl Black's passing was important enough to be picked up by the press, you can safely assume that Estrada's death will also be noticed by the media; and if that happens, we'll probably also find out what of.

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If he were killed in jail it would certainly make the news regardless of who he is as stories of murdered inmates are regularly reported (at least in California and sometimes nationally). The fact that he has a claim to fame would almost guarantee it, it would depend on the type of News Day was taking place, slow day big play…busy day, maybe no play…

We might find out he died,but unless it's a spectacular death,we won't know how he died until the coroner's report comes out a few weeks later.I agree with Plook about CA..The news here always has a prison spot,depending on the news day,that announces that stuff.Busy news day....nothing....quiet news day,you betcha'.Prisons are big business in CA.,so is news about them.(were trying to out source prisons to WY.NV.as I type) So it would get out and we'd hear about his death.I can see the headlines now: Mother gets raped and killed in prison! Details at 11:00.
Short eyes don't last long in prison,so we should know within a year or two.

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

The "If she were my daughter..."-part on Brown Shoes Don't Make It, just got another meaning.

Well, I guess you should make a difference between the artist and the private person. Even though child molesters are the lowest of the lowest, Estradas contributions to Zappas albums are forever great. I mean, his high pitch falsetto is a signature on the early Mothers discs.