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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:59 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
If you believe that I made any such claim, you're going to be waiting a long time for Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, 'cause they ain't coming, little boy.


it doesn't matter what you say, boy, I know what you said, and I'm not the only one.

if you had confessed to it, this thread wouldn't have been here in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:01 pm 
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I know you know what I said. WHY ARE YOU STILL POSTING IN THIS THREAD? I never made any such claim! Why are you arguing about this when you know fully well that I never said that one couldn't press an LP side over 20 minutes? There's no reason for this thread to exist. This thread exist because some people are so immature that they like to make up their own little reality in which I made claims that I would never make.

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:48 pm 
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20:09

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:49 pm 
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i actually found the evidence of him saying it in a thread a while back.
shocking that he hadn't even edited his post.
yes, i must have been extremely bored at the time..

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Where's the evidence? In your head?

I NEVER SAID IT.

Are you really that much of a loser to continue on and on with this crap?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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And some o' dat
Don't treat me, baby, like your
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Last edited by Isaac on Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: size zero isaac
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:50 am 
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i know you never said it.
you wrote it on this forum.

the reason i 'continue' is because there was a thread in front of me and i decided to add my 2 pence to it. plus i find your denials amusing, it's funny to see you froth the way you do.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:42 pm 
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It's not only easy to take Jayp's word for this over mr. Homeschool.
It is downright no contest.
Besides, he's busted him before, about a conversation, also in chat about not owning Roxy & Elsewhere.
That was a fun thread.
Ah, memories.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:48 pm 
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BillyDaMt wrote:
It's not only easy to take Jayp's word for this over mr. Homeschool.
It is downright no contest.
Besides, he's busted him before, about a conversation, also in chat about not owning Roxy & Elsewhere.
That was a fun thread.
Ah, memories.


Jayp is an immature liar. If you believe anything he says, you're a goddamn idiot.

There is no evidence. I never said any of this shit about LP sides, Roxy, Sleep Dirt, anything. Get over yourselves.

This is so fucking boring. All of you know fully goddamn well that I never said any of this shit you people are attributing to me, and there's no goddamn evidence to prove elsewhere. You'd think that you schmucks would have grown up by now - most of the people who posted the fake quotes in the first place already have.

"That shit's been fuckin' rubbed in the ground. Christ, that's goin' on two tours old now... We gotta come up with some new shit..."

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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And some o' dat
Don't treat me, baby, like your
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Last edited by Isaac on Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Isaac: do you ever wonder why people keep poking you with a stick?

It's because of the delicious little squeak you make every time they do it.

Think about it...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:31 am 
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Isaac wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
It's not only easy to take Jayp's word for this over mr. Homeschool.
It is downright no contest.
Besides, he's busted him before, about a conversation, also in chat about not owning Roxy & Elsewhere.
That was a fun thread.
Ah, memories.


Jayp is an immature liar. If you believe anything he says, you're a goddamn idiot.

There is no evidence. I never said any of this shit about LP sides, Roxy, Sleep Dirt, anything. Get over yourselves.

This is so fucking boring. All of you know fully goddamn well that I never said any of this shit you people are attributing to me, and there's no goddamn evidence to prove elsewhere. You'd think that you schmucks would have grown up by now - most of the people who posted the fake quotes in the first place already have.

"That shit's been fuckin' rubbed in the ground. Christ, that's goin' on two tours old now... We gotta come up with some new shit..."

[size=0]Isaac[/size]


Thanks for the PM, I felt all fuzzy inside reading your "private" message to me.
And if it's so fucking boring, why not stop responding to it.
If you've said it once, lord knows you've said it a hundred times. We all know what you say you didn't say.
We just don't believe you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:52 am 
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20:07

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:11 am 
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Hmm... I see...

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Every time I see these threads up here, it's like someone is repeatedly smashing in my car windows, pissing in my mailbox, setting my lawn on fire, breaking my windows, and calling me every hour to scream at me. The feeling of being stalked and harassed is not in the least bit relaxing, entertaining, or fun. Would you do this to Frank? Get real.

Remember, it is also widely believed that Frank once ate shit on stage. That doesn't make it true, now does it?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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Baby wants some o' dis
And some o' dat
Don't treat me, baby, like your
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:27 am 
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Isaac wrote:
Every time I see these threads up here, it's like someone is repeatedly smashing in my car windows, pissing in my mailbox, setting my lawn on fire, breaking my windows, and calling me every hour to scream at me. The feeling of being stalked and harassed is not in the least bit relaxing, entertaining, or fun. Would you do this to Frank? Get real.

Remember, it is also widely believed that Frank once ate shit on stage. That doesn't make it true, now does it?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]


No. But he had a very humorous response to it in his book.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:56 am 
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HJ wrote:
Isaac wrote:
Remember, it is also widely believed that Frank once ate shit on stage. That doesn't make it true, now does it?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

No. But he had a very humorous response to it in his book.


Hehehe just what I was thinking. I'm sure you're talking about this one:

FZ...? wrote:
[The one who spread the rumor] is an immature liar. If you believe anything he says, you're a goddamn idiot.

There is no evidence. I never ate any shit onstage. Not in the Fillmore, or the Roxy, nowhere. Get over yourselves.

This is so fucking boring. All of you know fully goddamn well that I never ate any of this shit you people are attributing to me, and there's no goddamn evidence to prove elsewhere. You'd think that you schmucks would have grown up by now - most of the people who spread the fake rumor in the first place already have.

"That shit's been fuckin' rubbed in the ground. Christ, that's goin' on two tours old now... We gotta come up with some new shit..."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:20 am 
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Frank Zappa wrote in The Real Frank Zappa Book:

I was in a London Club called the Speak Easy in 1967 or '68. A member of a group called the Flock, recording for Columbia at the time, came over to me and said: "You're fantastic. When I heard about you eating that shit on stage, I thought, 'That guy is way, way out there.'"

I said, "I never ate shit on stage." He looked really depressed - like I had just broken his heart.

For the records, folks: I never took a shit on stage, and the closest I ever came to eating shit anywhere was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 1973.

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polydigm wrote:
Frank Zappa wrote in The Real Frank Zappa Book:


Ooooh, that one! :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:36 pm 
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During the 1930s while the great depression was at its height, people no longer bought records, or at least not in the quantities they had during the previous decade, especially when they could hear music for free on the radio. Or even when they went out of the home, particularly in America, after the repeal of prohibition, they could listen to music on jukeboxes in bars and taverns around the country. Besides playing music at home on the gramophone meant bulky shellac 78rpm records, which after several plays were either so poor in quality that one could hardly hear the music, or worse still, the favourite track would be in two pieces, broken shellac that couldn't be played at all. Even records that remained playable needed to be changed for the next track every three minutes. This was acceptable for anybody that wanted to listen to the pop songs of the day, the beginnings of the Big Band Era, Jazz and Ragtime tunes or the new breed of crooners, singers who could use their voice softly and expressively on record instead of shouting loudly into a megaphone, something that could not be achieved until the mid 1920s and the dawning of electric recording rather than mechanically produced sounds. However anybody who wanted to listen to classical music, a complete symphony or opera, after two or three minutes, the disc would have to be changed and listening at home was the not the pleasure it should have been.

In 1939 the Columbia Broadcasting System company purchased the old American Record Corporation which was the controlling company of Columbia Records. Immediately there were discussions how to rectify this unacceptable situation by providing an easier way to enjoy playing records at home and increasing sales back to the pre-depression era levels. Research was begun that would ultimately culminate in the invention of a long playing record nine years later in 1948.

Just like a lot of other inventions, its progress was aided by the war. The troops overseas could no longer receive radio transmissions and so special V discs (for victory) were recorded, often free of charge by the major artists such as Glenn Miller or The Andrews Sisters. These were recorded on 16 inch shellac discs, larger than the standard 10 inch in order to fit more groove walls per inch on them. The problems with record production were many fold, none more so that the collapsing of the groove walls when attempting to shorten the space between the grooves on the standard 10 inch records. The V discs contained recordings of the hits of the day and important troop information but made of delicate shellac, would often arrive cracked or broken and unplayable, hardly the morale boost they were designed to be. The biggest problem however was that the main source of the material shellac itself was the Lac beetle of South Asia. Shellac was produced by collecting the converted sap from native trees from the beetle, crushing, washing and drying it, thus transforming it into a waxy resin substance. As Japan invaded and occupied the entire area, the supply of raw material dried up, particularly as the discs needed to be larger to fit more music on and so the recording industry looked to the plastics industry which was using a compound initially used as early as 1912 Polyvinyl Chloride, known as PVC and eventually shortened to the name Vinyl. This had two main advantages over shellac, firstly it was available in America and was no longer reliant on a scarce south Asian beetle and secondly, the number of grooves per inch could be raised well above the 100 maximum on a shellac 78 and therefore more music, about 10 minutes of music could be recorded onto each side of the disc.

As the war finished, these new vinyl records still played at 78 revolutions per minute but by 1948 Peter Carl Goldmark a Hungarian-American and CBS announced the introduction of a 12 inch vinyl record containing up to 260 groove walls per inch and a slower revolving speed of 33 and a third rpm, thus the time constraints were considerably raised to up to 30 minutes of music per side, the microgroove technology and the long playing record was born. Although CBS had a vibrant pop division including artists on their roster of the calibre of Benny Goodman, Frank Sinatra, and Eddie Duchin, the new developments were geared up to their classical division. The thinking was that 90% of all classical works could be recorded onto a double sided disc if the playing time was at least 17 minutes per side. CBS debated the application of this new technology to the pop division and whether one track, a popular song could be recorded onto a vinyl containing microgrooves, but they delayed the decision based on the investment of $250,000 so far into the long playing classical market and just one year later in 1949, a smaller 7 inch vinyl record revolving at 45 rpm and containing one song per side was introduced by a rival company RCA.

One of the first overseas territories to be offered the chance to produce and release recordings on the new 12 inch long playing format was the UK which was dominated by two recording companies Decca and EMI. Ted Lewis and Decca were impressed and immediately took up the opportunity but EMI, because in the UK it had an agreement with RCA, did not. Sir Louis Sterling, the head of EMI admitted in 1950 that the company had almost fallen out of the classical record business by the time they finally accepted the concept of the long player and introduced it into the UK with their artists. Columbia had copyrighted and protected the term LP to refer to its long playing records, so although other companies could make long playing records, only Columbia could make LPs. Because of the convenience and constant usage of the term, it became part of common language.

The battle of the speeds was on. RCA spent a fortune in advertising their 45 which was ideal for pop songs, but with a maximum of about 5 minutes of music per side at this time, did not work for classical works and Columbia advertised the new LP format which as a specialist classical medium, however much a good idea, did not sell as well. Columbia's big break came just one year after the introduction of the LP as it secured the rights to record and release the Broadway Cast recording of South Pacific with Ezio Pinza and Mary Martin. This brought a whole new concept of what LPs could be used for as the LP sold better than any classical recording had up to date and remained one of the formats biggest sellers until the golden era of the 1960s. As Columbia and all other record companies succumbed to RCA's 45 pop disc, so eventually even RCA, who were originally vehemently against the LP, realised that they would lose some of their biggest artists including Arthur Rubenstein and Jascha Heifetz if they did not release their works on long playing records and even their pop artists Tommy Dorsey, Vaughn Monroe, Perry Como and Artie Shaw wanted to release their recordings on LPs rather than a series of 78s as they were still being done.

As early as July 1940 the USA began charting the relative success of sales of pop records. All of these records were released on 78 rpm shellac discs but there were no rules to the chart and when releases started appearing on the new 45 rpm vinyl format in 1949, they simply slotted in alongside the sales of 78s. Some songs were released on both formats to satisfy those people who still held onto their 78 phonographs or players. 1940 was the first time that relatively accurate comparisons of sales were made and the first time that one could definitively say that at any particular time, one song was more popular than another.

By March 1945, the USA began charting the relative success of the long playing format. All of these early long players, were in fact not long playing records at all, but collections of 78s, whether it was a compilation of Nat King Cole or Glenn Miller tracks or the complete Broadway cast recordings of Carousel or the Song Of Norway. When Columbia issued the complete South Pacific recording on one disc, it was revolutionary and the LP chart which had been unified up until this point, was split into sales of the new long playing format on 33 rpm and the collection of tracks on several discs whether on the new 45 rpm vinyl or still on 78 rpm shellac. This split again showed that some recordings tended to sell well on one format or the other but not necessarily both. It remained in place until the chart was unified again at the end of 1953, by now virtually all LPs being manufactured in the more convenient vinyl format.

The album chart remained unified until May 1959, although there was a brief LP chart based on Disc Jockey plays in 1957 and 1958, when another innovation in the industry, stereo, prompted the charts to be split into mono and stereo recordings. Once again, there were major differences in sales of types of recordings. Comedy and folk records tended to sell on mono, whereas the film soundtracks and experimental records of the day, sold better on the new stereo medium. The album chart was unified in August 1963, as it remains today.

Britain did not introduce sales charts until late in 1952. At this time the sales of long playing records were nowhere near as large as the sales of 78 rpm pop songs and the chart was correspondingly open to any format, at any speed, for any type of music. This worked very well, with only the occasional long playing record infiltrating into the lower regions of the chart among all the other single records. Finally in 1956, a stand alone LP chart was considered and published. The singles chart at this time was produced by the New Musical Express. This weekly listing from 1952-1960 has become the official chart for the era, although The Record Mirror also ran a singles chart and was the first music magazine to announce a chart based on sales of the LP. They claimed in July 1956 that it would be worthwhile creating a chart exclusively based on LP sales. On the 14th of July 1956, under the headline "Soon - best selling LP lists", they said, "Because of the ever increasing sales of Long playing records and the many requests for a best selling list of these discs, we are inaugurating in this feature, a first five LP analysis. We hope to publish the first list in about a fortnight". Then as promised, two weeks later on 28th July 1956, they were as good as their word. "As promised, The Record Mirror breaks fresh ground by introducing a new feature, the first of its kind in Britain. In this space every week, we shall be analysing the sales of long playing records in this country. In the same way that we prepare the top 20 charts, so we shall be building the top five charts for LPs. This is a feature which reflects not only the wishes of our readers, but also the swiftly changing disc market - a market in which LPs are selling in certain instances at the same high level as 78rpm recordings. It is a feature which reflects a definite trend in the industry - an important feature which to quote ourselves is, one to watch"

The timing of the introduction of the new LP chart was probably correct, despite the claims that LP sales were increasing, giving the impression that they were in some instances as high as singles sales, in 1956, this simply was not true and LPs would have to wait a further 15 years before they overtook the sales of singles on more than just isolated instances.

The first LP chart was published as a top 5 listing in The Record Mirror on 28th July 1956. On the 8th November 1958, the Melody Maker began publishing a top 10 weekly listing which was then used as a larger official sample. Record Retailer which was the first publication aimed at the music industry as opposed to the consumer was launched on 12th March 1960, and from this date, this was the official chart used. Two weeks later, its top 10 albums listing was increased to a top 20. On the 16th April 1966, this was increased further to a top 30 and just before the end of that year to a top 40. Between 31st January 1970 and 9th January 1971, the number of positions in the chart fluctuated from a top 47 to a top 77, finally settling on a top 50 on the week of the 16th January 1971, although during the postal strike in early 1971 when there were no LP charts compiled or published by Record Retailer, the Melody Maker charts were used again. In July 1975, the chart was increased further to 60 positions and again at the end of 1978 to a top 75. On the 8th August 1981 the album chart settled on a top 100 positions until the beginning of 1989 when compilations were split away from the artists chart and the main chart shrank back to a top 75, a situation that remains up until 2007. One further note should be made that between 1969 and 1975 with the rise of budget albums, mid-price titles, compilations and samplers, several separate charts were produced based on price bands, all of which are referred to during the relevant chapters.

It is not known exactly when the terms "LP" or "Long Player" fell into disuse and were replaced the term "Album" but it was generally around the late 1960s or early 1970s when some artists no longer considered LPs to be simply a collection of their tracks put together by their record company, but a body of work that stood apart as a single unit. It may not have been until the mid 1980s when albums began to sell on compact disc. Most of the early LPs in fact were not collections of singles but were tracks by the artists that one would not necessarily hear apart from as part of the entire LP. Tracks released as hit singles were rarely included as one could either buy these tracks separately as singles or hear them constantly on the radio. Tracks chosen for the long playing format were mainly the ones that neither fitted on a radio format nor were as instantly memorable as the hit singles but if a singer wanted to be taken seriously, they would lavish a lot more time and attention on their long playing releases than their single formats, a lot of which were left to the record companies decision makers. These articles use the terms LP, Long Player and Album interchangeably, not making any distinction between the terminology.

Two questions arise from this commentary, why albums rather than singles and why only the top 10s? Everybody thinks of singles first. The answer to the question, What was number one on a specific date, invariably brings forward the answer from the singles charts. However, it would conversely appear that everybody buys albums rather than singles and has seemingly done so for a very long while. The singles market is very transient, open to novelty acts and fads from the time. It is more likely that the album chart actually means more to an individual than the corresponding weeks' singles chart, especially recently, although they may have heard top singles on the radio or at clubs, they are more likely to have spent their own money and bought a top album. I was speaking to a cabbie recently about the album charts vs the singles chart and a perfect analogy came up when he asked me about the number one on his daughter's birthday which was near to Christmas 1993. He had to admit that he would be embarrassed to relate to her that the number one single was Mr Blobby but the number one album, Bat Out Of Hell 2 by Meat Loaf was much more to his liking. The album chart represents a real music fan and far less is known about them taken as a whole than the singles market, simply because specific groups' fans will digest and learn a lot more than all rounders. That same cab driver seemed knew a lot about music but maybe his knowledge was only just above average and he would not have argued or discussed long and hard with me, details of individual singles, but even I had to dig deep when he began discussing the relative merits of individual tracks on all the Led Zeppelin albums, his favourite band, and whether my opinion was the same as his, regarding the quality of Houses Of The Holy rather than the first four albums.

Why only the top 10s? After 24 years in the music business, I noted almost perpetual sales by the major record shops, even the online ones, where albums would be offered for a short period as 2 or even 3 for £10 or many other combinations and prices. One obvious reason for this was to generate store traffic and also aid cash flow, but another reason was the over estimation by the record companies for the potential of their latest project and the vast overstocks that happened when the store buyers believed the hype. I have to be honest and say I personally was taken in just as often as any other buyer and bought into an album, only to find the shelves and unopened boxes in the back rooms, bulging with unsold product not long after release.

Attempting to clear the embarrassing mistakes and also turn the unwanted product albums into cash, albeit at a lower price than one had paid not so long ago, would often have the effect of propelling unsuccessful albums which had not hung around long, or in some cases even long forgotten albums, well past their peak, back into the chart, virtually always outside the top 10 which distorted the chart accordingly. Now one could argue that the album chart is open to manipulation by the marketing campaigns of the record companies, particularly TV advertising, but that is only an extension and a very good way of letting people know the product is out there. I consider this to be different to one specific record shop having an album at a lower price, which would not have sold at its true value, thus getting it back into the chart.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
Would you do this to Frank? Get real.

[size= 0]Isaac[/size]


The big difference is - you are a liar, and he wasn't.

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timm0 wrote:
The big difference is.....


.....that you seem to be enjoying eating feces, judging from your frequent continued insistence that I am somehow a liar.

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
timm0 wrote:
The big difference is.....


.....that you seem to be enjoying eating feces, judging from your frequent continued insistence that I am somehow a liar.

[size= 0]Isaac[/size]


the proof was there for all to see that you lied. there's no room for opinion, it's hard fact.

i also gave you the proof that you lied once upon a time, which you chose to ignore and start frothing in your usual arousing manner.

ZERO!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:17 pm 
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timm0 wrote:
Isaac wrote:
timm0 wrote:
The big difference is.....


.....that you seem to be enjoying eating feces, judging from your frequent continued insistence that I am somehow a liar.


the proof was there for all to see that you lied. there's no room for opinion, it's hard fact.

i also gave you the proof that you lied once upon a time, which you chose to ignore and start frothing in your usual arousing manner.

ZERO!


You never gave any proof. Because none exists. The quotes, now poorly formatted, are fake. I never once said anything of the sort here, on the forum, anywhere.

I am tired of being repeatedly harassed as a set up for you schmucks to intentionally try to make me look crazy so you can sit back and whine about what a lying asshole I am, when you are, in fact....

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:13 am
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Location: england
Isaac wrote:
You never gave any proof.


LIE.

Quote:
.. Because none exists.


another LIE.

Quote:
The quotes, now poorly formatted, are fake. I never once said anything of the sort here, on the forum, anywhere.


yep, you guessed it folks.. LIE.

Quote:
I am tired of being repeatedly harassed as a set up for you schmucks to intentionally try to make me look crazy so you can sit back and whine about what a lying asshole I am, when you are, in fact....


well if you're tired of it, don't assert something and then attempt to weasel your way out of it by saying you never wrote it. admit you wrote those things which everyone know you wrote, then move on.

like that's ever gunna happen....... ZERO!

[size= 0]Isaac[/size][/quote]

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