Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:00 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 5951
Location: Québec country (let me dream...)
That was already posted some days ago by I don't remember who.<br><br>An interesting ride anyway.

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed ! For a real diplomacy: abolish Electoral College
Ignore list: DiscoBoy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:03 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Italia
[quote author=Mij link=board=rant;num=1082492189;start=0#0 date=04/20/04 at 13:21:34]That was already posted some days ago by I don't remember who.<br><br>An interesting ride anyway.[/quote]<br><br>I remember, I was 8 and I didn't understand why before a junior football match our coach said to us: "do not touch the grass...if you do it don't put your hand in mouth"...for an Italian child was an uncomprehensible thing, for Europe has been a disaster, for Russia an horrible disaster...<br><br>ciao<br>

_________________
God is is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 17318
Location: Green Chevy, license number 650 BN
Brazil was home of the second large civil disaster with radiation, when an poor unemployed guy found a capsule in the iron trash disposal place in the city (or whaterver you call it) and discovered a beautfuly glowing pouder when he crackend it open... He took it home and showed his family and they all played with it...<br><br>The capsule happens to have  been a part of an old disposed x-ray machine from a local hospital... Several people were severly struck by radiation, and those who were most closely exposed to the powder (Cesium 137) died later...<br><br>Really sad and absurd story, sad but true :'(

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:50 am
Posts: 6003
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
[quote author=Zardoz link=board=rant;num=1082492189;start=0#8 date=04/21/04 at 03:03:56]Sundance Channel has a good documentary on it called "Alexei and the Spring" which is about a community still living in the contaminated zone. It deals with the effects 14 years after Chernobyl.  8)[/quote]<br>oddly, the name chernobyl in the local language of the area translates as wormwood which was the name of the fiery star that fell from heaven or somewhere like that in the book of revelations :o spooky?

_________________
Solipsism
Ambidextrous Records
Solipsism Twitter
Solipsism Facebook
Juno Records Vinyl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:20 am
Posts: 1169
Location: Europe
When the radioactive cloud passed on W Europe I was in France, walking with a friend in the centre of Lyon. Under the rain.<br>In the evening the news of the French TV reported the foillowing: "No problem in France because it did not rain".<br>I said "OK, we walked under the rain".<br>Two days after I went back to Rome and I felt like living in a science-fiction movie: all vegetables, mushrooms, strawberries etc. were sold IN THE STREET for less than some cents. I was still sleepy after the travel in the couchette train, so I arrived with the bus close to my home and outside the market I bought 3 kg of strawberries for about 10 cents.<br>I arrived at home and my MOM took strawberries and wwasted them in the garbage.<br>I (still sleepy) asked "Why MOM ?".<br>Then she showed me the newspapers and I learned everything on Chernobyl. All the things that were censored by Frogs' TV.<br>Now you have to take into account two facts: <br>1 - there are more or less 40 nuclear centrals in France;<br>2 - everybody spoken of this with extreme details in Italy because almost a week later than the accident Italians had to vote for a referendum on nuclear energy.<br>Of course, at the issue of the referendum Italy decided to give up to projects for using that kind of energy.

_________________
I love monstermovies..and the cheaper they are the better they are.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:35 am
Posts: 1736
Location: CT, usa
[center]Image[/center]<br>[center]"i'll tell you what you are. you're a hallucination brought on by drinking russian vodka, poisoned by chernobyl!"[/center]<br>[center] ;)[/center]

_________________
looks like i'm back playing with Clearlight Industries. CLI MySpace


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:09 pm
Posts: 2476
Location: arse
Image<br><br>chirac ( far right ) and saddam in the nuclear reactor france built for iraq - if the isralies had not bombed it it would have produced enough plutonium to create catastrophy many times that of Chernobyl. <br><br>who remembers bohpal ?<br><br>mungo

_________________
Drink..............it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:09 pm
Posts: 2476
Location: arse
any more of the bedroom scenes - i like those.<br><br>yeah - sod bohpal - just a bunch of dusky hindoos who got zapped by a chemical leak, who cares.<br><br>mungo

_________________
Drink..............it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:46 am
Posts: 754
Location: In France!
I've been to Belarus 5 times and visited Ukraine last year. Everybody in Belarus has a story to tell: my cousin died from cancer... my uncle got sick and died... it goes on and on  :'( :'( :'(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:32 am
Posts: 1708
Location: Blaine (is a pain), MN USA
[quote author=jimmie d link=board=rant;num=1082492189;start=0#6 date=04/20/04 at 17:00:08]<br>It's been quite some time since I've been prompted to roll out The Redundancy Garbage Truck Brigade.[/quote]<br><br>haha! I'd say that means they've done their job well  ;D<br>

_________________
Image
If yore expectin' any pearls
o'wisdom to drop from mah mouth,
yore barkin' up the wrong tree.
- Festus Haggen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 17318
Location: Green Chevy, license number 650 BN
It was 30 years ago today :cry:

RIP all the fallen Ukrainian and Europeans due to that gigantic mess...

Pink Floyd - Marooned (with some moving footage from the exclusion area in Chernobyl).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YMI39sObY

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: The Thumb
Image

Still very rad

_________________
*********************************************************************
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 751
Location: Oregon
The truth about Chernobyl? I saw it with my own eyes…
Image
Kim Willsher reported on the world’s worst nuclear disaster from the Soviet Union. HBO’s TV version only scratches the surface, she says

Kim Willsher
Sun 16 Jun 2019 04.00 EDT
Last modified on Sun 16 Jun 2019 04.06 EDT

There is a line in the television series Chernobyl that comes as no surprise to those of us who reported on the 1986 nuclear disaster in what was the Soviet Union – but that still has the power to shock:

“The official position of the state is that global nuclear catastrophe is not possible in the Soviet Union.”

It was not possible, so in the days and months after the world’s worst such accident, on 26 April, the Kremlin kept up its pretence. It dissembled, deceived and lied. I began investigating Chernobyl in the late 1980s after Ukrainian friends insisted authorities in the USSR were covering up the extent of the human tragedy of those – many of them children – contaminated by radiation when the nuclear plant’s Reactor 4 exploded, blasting a cloud of poisonous fallout across the USSR and a large swathe of Europe.

When photographer John Downing and I first visited, the Soviet Union, then on its last political legs, was still in denial about what happened despite president Mikhail Gorbachev’s new era of glasnost.

The Chernobyl miniseries is a compelling account of how the disaster unfolded, based largely on the testimony of those present, most of whom died soon afterwards. It rings true but only scratches the surface of another, more cruel reality– that, in their desperation to save face, the Soviets were willing to sacrifice any number of men, women and children. Even as radiation spewed out of the plant from the burning reactor core, local people told John and me how they had seen Communist apparatchiks in the area spirit their families to safety in Moscow while the residents were being urged to carry on as if nothing had happened. In Pripyat, the satellite city built for Chernobyl workers, windows were left open, children played outside, and gardeners dug their allotments.

The plume of deadly radioactive dust was just a harmless steam discharge, residents were told. It was 36 hours before the city was evacuated, by which time some were already showing signs of radiation sickness.

On the TV news on 29 April – more than three days after the catastrophe, with the reactor fire still burning – Chernobyl was the sixth item. “There has been an accident” the female presenter stated. “Two people have died”. Schoolchildren in Byelorussia and Ukraine – the worst hit by fallout – were instructed to continue with their May Day celebrations and parades, even as the rain brought radioactive particles down on them.

Today, Chernobyl is a tourist attraction. Thousands of visitors traipse around the ghost city of Pripyat, taking snaps of the crumbling housing blocks, parched swimming pool, schoolrooms, abandoned funfair and overgrown streets. The first time we visited, it seemed post-apocalyptic. We found homes still furnished, with personal belongings lying around. People had been told to take only what they needed for two or three days. It looked as if they had just vanished into thin air. Outside, the public-address system was still playing maudlin music and the funfair, with its bumper cars and brightly-coloured ferris wheel, was beginning to rust.

As we drove through the 30km exclusion zone, where, in 1990, 20,000 people still lived and worked, into the “dead zone” – a 10km circle around the plant – we stopped at checkpoints to be scanned for radioactive particles. Every time the scanner either failed to work and was given a good kicking – and still didn’t work – or it would wail alarmingly and be swiftly unplugged. There were no explanations except for: “It’s safe”.

If John or I put a toe off the designated path, the scientist accompanying us would drop the “it’s safe” line and scream “no, no, no … not there. There’s not safe.” Scientists estimate the contaminated area will not be safe for 24,000 years, give or take a thousand.

At the entrance to Reactor 3, next to the concrete sarcophagus hastily thrown over Reactor 4, the scanners were equally silent as we pressed our hands into the vertical pads. (An executive from the UK company that supplied the machines later called me to claim the Soviets had turned up the dose levels to avoid triggering an alert.)

At the Chernobyl Research Centre, a short distance from the power plant, scientists showed us pine saplings grown from seeds from the nearby “red forest” where the trees glowed after absorbing radiation and had to be dug up and buried. The saplings were all bizarre mutations, some with needles growing backwards. There was no sign of wildlife, not even birds. The researchers spoke of mice with six toes and deformed teeth.

The Soviets were not the only ones who lied. France’s authorities hid information about the radioactive cloud over its territory, and Hans Blix, then director general of the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA)– still accused of minimising the dangers following the catastrophe– released a statement that settlements around Chernobyl would “be safe for residents” before long. Dissident scientist Andrei Sakharov was also deceived. “To my shame, I at first pretended that nothing much had happened,” he said.

Many doctors insisted there had been a spike in the number of cancers and leukemias. Children had been born with rare deformities including “frogs’ legs”, their hips twisted outwards. Others had heart defects, and thyroid cancers thought to have been caused by radioactive iodine.

Yet officials insisted that all this was “poor food and poverty” and unrelated to Chernobyl.

In bare, prison-like hospitals, parents would thrust children at us and beg us to take them to the UK or plead for medicines or money for medicines. Oncologists told us they were so short of chemotherapy drugs they would give one sick child half a protocol and another the other half, condemning both. Yet officials would say it was “anecdotal evidence” and nothing to do with Chernobyl. We were welcomed by dozens of desperate families, good Soviet citizens who had little but would put what little they had on the table to show us hospitality, and who could not understand why their leaders could not explain why their children were dying of radiation-linked diseases except to say “it’s not Chernobyl”.

For me, one particular girl, Oksana, and her family, encapsulated the human tragedy. On 1 May 1986, the teenager and her school friends were ordered out on to the streets of the Ukrainian capital Kiev to take part in traditional parades. Oksana’s father, a singer, was told it was his “patriotic duty” to go with his male voice choir to Chernobyl to sing to the “clean-up” workers. He told us he had been more scared of the still raging reactor fire than the silent, invisible killer he was breathing in and out.

Oksana’s parents pressed cakes, local “champagne”, brandy and vodka on us and talked about their only child’s unexplained “sickness”. In the next room, Oksana lay dying, a skeletal figure staring blindly at the ceiling, who bore no resemblance to the smiling blond girl in a photograph on the mantlepiece. She did not speak and did not appear to respond to anything or to move, except to blink slowly every few minutes.

Oksana died, as did many others –but because no data was kept from before the disaster, nothing can be proven. Today, as the TV series points out, the official number of directly attributable victims of Chernobyl is 31. Other, “unscientific”, estimates vary from 4,000 to 93,000.

John and I returned several times to Chernobyl. When I went back for the 30th anniversary three years ago, and interviewed Pripyat residents evacuated to the town of Slavutych, all told of friends and relatives who had died prematurely after the disaster: more “anecdotal evidence” of the ongoing Chernobyl tragedy.

Now my photographer friend John Downing has terminal lung cancer. “I often wonder if Chernobyl had anything to do with it,” he told me. Like many others, he will never know. John reminded me of a scientist we met in Moscow. The man had spent some time in Chernobyl. “I’ll never forget. He took a notebook out of his desk and ran a Geiger counter over it, which started crackling like mad. Four years on, and it was still highly radioactive,” John said.

Today, 33 years on, Vladimir Putin has dismissed the TV miniseries as US misinformation and reportedly said Russia will make its own “version” blaming the CIA. Like radiation, Kremlin propaganda has a long half-life.

Poison legacy

Chernobyl was to be the largest nuclear plant in the world, with 12 reactors.

Years before the catastrophe, a KGB report highlighted flaws in the RBMK reactor.

The radioactive elements released in the explosion are active for between 30 and 24,000 years – an environmental threat for centuries.

Up to 600,000 people, known as ‘liquidators’, took part in the clean-up. Some were ordered to shovel fatally radioactive graphite, working in shifts of 90 seconds each.

About 350,000 people from more than 200 villages were evacuated.

The last reactor was shut down in 2000.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 751
Location: Oregon
Scientists distill vodka from Chernobyl's radioactive exclusion zone and say it seems safe to drink

By Christopher Brito

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/atomik-vodka-chernobyl-disaster-liquor-company-radiation/

August 9, 2019 / 4:50 PM / CBS News

Scientists have distilled vodka from ingredients found in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, creating the first consumer product out of the area since the nuclear disaster over 30 years ago. Called Atomik, the artisan vodka is actually an experiment from researchers looking into how much radioactivity would transfer over to crops grown in the zone, according to the Chernobyl Spirit Company, the team that created it.

Chernobyl Spirit Company made the liquor out of rye grain they planted in the exclusion zone and water from an aquifer in Chernobyl. After distilling it and conducting tests, James Smith, a University of Portsmouth environmental scientist and part of the group, told CBS News partner BBC they concluded that their product is "no more radioactive than any other vodka."

Image

"Any chemist will tell you, when you distill something, impurities stay in the waste product," Smith said. They sent the Chernobyl vodka to Southhampton University in the U.K. to undergo testing for possible radioactivity.

"They couldn't find anything — everything was below their limit of detection," he said.

The only problem with the vodka is that so far there's only one bottle of it, according to the BBC. The team said in a blog post they plan on making more bottles of Atomik, with the hope of making a profit to help local communities that surround the abandoned zone.

The recent HBO series "Chernobyl" renewed interest in the disaster and the site where it transpired. Fears of radiation have kept many away from the exclusion zone, which was evacuated in the aftermath of the 1986 nuclear accident, but thousands of tourists now travel to the site every year. So many, in fact, that Ukraine's president announced plans to make the site and surrounding areas more tourist friendly. The plans include new waterways and checkpoints in the area, enhanced cellphone reception and new walking trails. Filming restrictions will also be lifted.

Back in April 1986, when the region was part of the Soviet Union, a reactor at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant exploded, resulting in at least 32 deaths in the immediate aftermath. After initially downplaying the risk, the communist regime soon forced thousands of people to evacuate, turning the nearby city of Pripyat into a ghost town. Hundreds of square miles surrounding the reactor remain off limits.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group