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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Huck_Phlem wrote:
I look at Feminism and all those ethnocentric courses as nothing more than hate groups!
Because that's what they are -- bullshit courses advocating and insisting upon the superiority of one sex over the other or selected minorities over others which is very insulting because it's teaching that some groups of people are less stupid than others. (But who wants to lose a job, especially one with tenure?)

--Bat :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:02 pm 
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The most far-reaching social development of modern times is the revolt of women against sexual servitude(Margaret Sanger, 1920).

While feminism takes many forms and cannot be characterized in any seamless way, it nonetheless encompasses the struggles of women to secure their economic and political agency. From the Women's Suffrage Movements of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries to the Women's Liberation Movement of the 1960s and 1970s, feminism is typically associated with particular historical moments when a coalition of women succeeds in bringing issues of gender equality, sexual oppression, and sex discrimination into the public arena. Whether it takes the form of an explicit demand for the vote (as did the Suffrage Movements) or a more generalized demand for women's freedom (as did the Women's Liberation Movement), feminism is invariably engaged in resistance to prevailing notions of women's ‘nature’.

In the nineteenth century, the ideological ascendancy of science and medicine joined the spread of industrialization to promote the ‘sexual division of labour’ based on the assumption that ‘biology is destiny’. Women's fixed role as caregivers was ideologically determined by their biological capacity to bear children. Associated with that biological capacity was a host of psychological attributes — passivity, dependence, moodiness — which further reinforced a growing emphasis on the gendered separation of the domestic and the public spheres. The qualities requisite to economic or political success were linked to biologically based notions of masculinity and femininity, according to which men's bodies and minds are naturally suited to positions of power and women's are naturally suited to positions of subordination. While the resistance to this view of sexual difference varies historically and culturally, it is against this backdrop that modern and contemporary feminism must be understood.

Not surprisingly, feminism often consolidates into a political movement as a result of women's participation in other radical, reformist, or revolutionary activities. For example, women were active in the anti-slavery movements of the nineteenth century. Yet, at a World Anti-Slavery Convention held in London in 1840, Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were forced to sit in the gallery because the convention's organizers had determined that women could not be delegates. Eight years later, Mott and Stanton convened the Seneca Falls Women's Rights Convention, which adopted a platform explicitly revising the US Declaration of Independence to accord women the same guarantees that it granted to men. (‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men and women are created equal …’) In addition, it specified a set of grievances regarding the usurping by men of women's political, legal, and economic autonomy. It would not be the last time that the hypocrisy of demanding rights for some while denying them to others would initiate a women's movement. Women's experience as coffee-makers, typists, and sexual attendants to men in the anti-war and civil rights movements of the 1960s similarly activated both the demand for women's full participation in the public sphere and denunciation of masculine sexual prerogatives.

The Women's Liberation Movement of the 1960s and 1970s, the backdrop to contemporary feminism, is characterized by two intersecting trajectories. On the one hand, in spite of the liberalization of non-marital sex (occasioned in part by the wide distribution of the birth control pill), women remained men's sexual subordinates. Feminists challenged ‘sexist’ images of women in popular culture and in the pornography industry in relation to a growing understanding of women's ‘political subordination under patriarchy’. Women's bodies, then, became the ground on which the struggle for liberation was waged. On the other hand, a connection was made between women's ‘consciousness’ and their sexual subordination. While feminists like Margaret Sanger had long before identified women's complicity in perpetuating their own subordination, the concept of ‘consciousness raising’ as an instrument of liberation emerged only in this later period. Consciousness raising, a collective activity of mutual support and critique, encouraged individual women to see the ways in which their habits of thought conformed to a particular set of ideological presuppositions about women's nature and women's roles.

The slogan ‘the personal is political’ captured the Movement's insistence that what goes on behind the closed doors of the domestic sphere has everything to do with what goes on outside it. On this basis, despite serious differences among feminists as to whether the goal was equality with men or freedom from them, a broad agenda for change could be articulated. The women's health movement demanded everything from an increase in the number of women doctors, to access to abortion and contraception, to freedom from sterilization abuse, to a full understanding and celebration of women's bodies in feminist terms. (Our Bodies/Ourselves, still the principal women's health handbook, was first published in 1971) More generally, women demanded ready access to the political arena, to economic self-sufficiency, to childcare, to freedom from male violence, to divorce, and to workplaces free from sexual harassment.

While feminism must be seen as an activist demand for political and economic reform, it has always been informed by serious reflection on the nature of sexual difference and the mechanisms by means of which sexual difference is enmeshed in, even created out of, relations of power and oppression.

The issue of women's autonomy in relation to reproduction and to work, and the issue of women's health more generally, have found themselves on the global political stage.

proud to be a feminist!
proud to be a zappa-lovin' freak!
it's about the music!
any intelligent, free-thinking woman/man/feminist/policeman/politician/butcher laughs and sings loudly along with the lyrics and enjoys FZ's brilliant composing and sparkling humor :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:04 pm 
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That's a good article Doochess, it covers pretty much what I think feminism is about and the view with which I sympathize. As to this thread topic, I lived in a house share situation once with two or three other people in Melbourne. One was a female, who wasn't exactly a Goth, but wore everything black and had these fairly hefty black shoes. She was more than a feminist, she wasn't ever going to be happy unless she had history all over again with women wearing the boots. She was basically miserable most of the time. Now, I could have written a song about her and I don't believe that would have made me sexist. Similar with Baritone Women, Zappa was not having a go at feminism but dissecting a very particular stereotype.

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 Post subject: feminism 101
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:08 am 
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doochessofprunes wrote:
The most far-reaching social development of modern times is the revolt of women against sexual servitude(Margaret Sanger, 1920).

proud to be a feminist!
proud to be a zappa-lovin' freak!
it's about the music!
any intelligent, free-thinking woman/man/feminist/policeman/politician/butcher laughs and sings loudly along with the lyrics and enjoys FZ's brilliant composing and sparkling humor :roll:


I was hoping you were going to stop by and pipe in on this subject. I think you did a great job nutshelling key feminist issues over the last century.
:wink:
daisy

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 Post subject: Re: feminism 101
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:38 am 
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debutante_daisy wrote:
doochessofprunes wrote:
The most far-reaching social development of modern times is the revolt of women against sexual servitude(Margaret Sanger, 1920).

proud to be a feminist!
proud to be a zappa-lovin' freak!
it's about the music!
any intelligent, free-thinking woman/man/feminist/policeman/politician/butcher laughs and sings loudly along with the lyrics and enjoys FZ's brilliant composing and sparkling humor :roll:


I was hoping you were going to stop by and pipe in on this subject. I think you did a great job nutshelling key feminist issues over the last century.
:wink:
daisy


shhhhhhhh, daisy!! :shock: :shock:

my skillz at nutshellig is sort of a private matter :oops: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: feminism 101
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:59 am 
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doochessofprunes wrote:
debutante_daisy wrote:
doochessofprunes wrote:
The most far-reaching social development of modern times is the revolt of women against sexual servitude(Margaret Sanger, 1920).

proud to be a feminist!
proud to be a zappa-lovin' freak!
it's about the music!
any intelligent, free-thinking woman/man/feminist/policeman/politician/butcher laughs and sings loudly along with the lyrics and enjoys FZ's brilliant composing and sparkling humor :roll:


I was hoping you were going to stop by and pipe in on this subject. I think you did a great job nutshelling key feminist issues over the last century.
:wink:
daisy


shhhhhhhh, daisy!! :shock: :shock:

my skillz at nutshellig is sort of a private matter :oops: :wink:


How about sunroofing? :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:44 pm 
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I don't know anything about feminism in academic settings. Never took any of those courses. It seems to me that the tenets of feminism remain strong on a personal basis for many people, in relationships, on the streets, in the workplace, etc. I hope that anyone who believes it is dead doesn't also believe that the fight is over. At work, who makes less? In relationships, who is usually doing most of the housework or spending time with the kids? On the street, do men need to worry about rape or assault in the same way women do? In the marketplace, isn't is usually women who are objectified for profit, whether on tv or in porn? I think feminism has a long fight ahead.

As for Frank.... I've always said here that I think he was incredibly sexist. There's no reason to spin his sexist lyrics into something else. He was just one of millions of sexist people out there. He just had a forum to put his thoughts into the public's view. It doesn't change the fact that he was really funny and a musical genius at all. It's just one of the many parts of him.

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Everytime we picked a booger we'd flip it on this one winduh. Every night we'd contribute, 2, 3, 4 boogers. We had to use a putty knife, man, to get them damn things off the winduh. There was some goober ones that weren't even hard...


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 Post subject: Re: FZ and feminism
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:18 am 
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From the Kreega Bondola bootleg:
Saratoga Performing Arts Centre, N.Y. State, September 1st, 1984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8QjmRe-tA
Time: 1:43:05

Note is passed on stage and FZ reads it:

" 'Dearest Frank Zappa your music is great, attitude toward women sucks. Raggedy Ann dances real well why not let her put some fucker in his place? Ok? signed Margie.'

Well let me tell you something about women's movement. There is only one good women's movment, and I am deeply involved in it. That is the movement where their back arches up like this and they hold on to the top of the bed and their eyes roll back. This is the most important women's movement and you should all be involved in it.

Now, some other friendly advice. You know, the female species is divided into three compartments.

The Girl - The Girl is a person who dreams of having a boy kiss her on the lips.

Then you have The Lady - The Lady is a person who thinks every guy should kiss her ass.

Then you have a Woman - Who appreciates it when a man kisses her pussy.

and that's how you tell them apart."


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