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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:29 pm 
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Thinking about it, why the fuck would Dweezil go to such lengths in a blog? Even to reveal private e-mails without permission? Maybe he IS scared of getting sued? Oh, well. I'm outta here on this nasty subject.
Too many know-it-alls, eh, Mr. Seraph?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:35 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
Thinking about it, why the fuck would Dweezil go to such lengths in a blog? Even to reveal private e-mails without permission? Maybe he IS scared of getting sued? Oh, well. I'm outta here on this nasty subject.
Too many know-it-alls, eh, Mr. Seraph?


So now Dweezil isn't allowed to give his side of the story and just let Andre spread his shit everywhere? What the fuck is wrong with you? Talk about drinking the Andre kool-aid.

Fuck off brainpang.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:24 pm 
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The Black Page Part 2 wrote:
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Andre C wrote:
I'm not gloating. It's called PRIDE. I am proud I have dedicated a part of my musical life, just one part -- to paying back to a man who changed my life - Frank Zappa.

An amazing, genius man I was lucky enough to shake hands with several times, look in his eyes from 3 feet away, tell him a joke or two, walk up to at a concert and give a funny sign to (feb 1988 , wash DC) that made him laugh his ass off (cherished memory!! Making Zappa laugh!!! C'mon - can it get better??!!!)

A man who asked on his deathbed for people, musicians or not - to PLAY HIS MUSIC!! Frank asked for that -- I have always tried to honor that request.


there he goes again. not gloating. of course not.

and, again, claiming that frank zappa (on his deathbed, no less) told everyone that it was alright to play his music anyway they wanted to.

thereby making project/object the only official zappa tribute band?

and; what's so special about adrian belew, anyway? he was a member of frank zappa's band for eight months.
he could have stayed, but, he left for david bowie...


Who said anything about Andre claiming P/O the only official Zappa tribute band? WTF are you talking about? Andre used to promote anyone doing anything related to Zappa music.

And WTF does Andrian Belew's "status" as a Zappa alumni have to do with this story?

Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Not surprised at all that this went down. :) Dweezil had every right to request him not to be backstage, beside the stage or anywhere near him. If he was in the front row of the crowd, then there's nothing he could do about that.

Andre's a dick. From reading his little story, he tries to come off like he's actually "alumni" becaused he played the music publicly before Dweezil did. He has insulted Dweezil and Gail personally, what did he call them in one blog - Weasel & Snail? :shock: That's probably the nicer of the things he's said. Fuck him, he should have got his ass kicked. He made his bed, now lay in it. Adrian would be smart to find a new guy next tour.


Andre's not a "dick," of that I can assure you.

What's really fucking comical though is you referencing Andre insulting Gail and Dweezil. Riiiiight. Andre showed restraint for years without saying shit about Gail's twisted fucking campaign of threats and lawsuits. You act as if that never happened. What a joke.

He should have gotten his "ass kicked" because of comments on a message board? Man, I just love internet tough guys. Let me guess, you were the kid who used to get the gas pedal from the big kids at school, right?

What a tool.

If it isn't painfully obvious at this point that the folks at ZFT are more than a little unstable then you either have your head in the sand or, alternatively, are like Schillmonger, who is little more than a rambling, incoherent fucking puppet.


BPII, you're a fucking assclown. Andre should have stopped with his farsical FZ tribute band when they wanted him to. He won't though. Andre's comments about Dweezil/Gail weren't only on the internet, but said in person to many people too. It's all coming back full circle now.

I never got beat up in school, not sure about you though. WTF that has to do with this though, who knows?

And again, Andre had no reason to be on the stage while ZPZ's playing. Dweezil had every right to keep him off while he's playing. His job is done when Adrian's set is done. It's pretty creepy actually, definitely stalker territory. All else I'll say is Seraph makes the most sense here, and his recent posts are right on the money.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:24 pm 
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I find it kind of amusing how many people instantly take Andre's side on this. I smell bullshit on both sides. I think I smell more from Andre's side but hey... he can spew and froth all he wants. DZ dropping a big blog about it surprises me a bit too but after such long winded grumbling from Andre I would have to respond myself as well.

Adrian should steer clear of such stupid crap too. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Seraph wrote:
He has been unable to sustain a career on his own merits and instead has to leech off FZ's legacy


I'm not trying to diss DZ or ZpZ here, but how is this any different to what DZ is doing? After all, he is lead guitarist in a band covering his father's music, intending to make this an annual event (presumably to the detriment of his own career - it's a big job, after all). I'm not trying to size up the relative merits of ZpZ and P/O or taking any sides here - I just don't see the essential difference between DZ playing FZ's music and AC playing FZ's music (apart from the family connection, which I personally don't think is hugely relevant). So if the above quote applies to AC, I feel it must apply to DZ as well. Better still, it could apply to neither. That's what I'm going for.

This whole episode makes for sorry reading, but like feetlightup has said, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Edit: just to clarify that I've not heard P/O at all, and perhaps an hour of ZpZ via an audience recording, so I'm not thinking about musical merit or otherwise at all here. To me, they're both cover bands, trying to do the same thing - play FZ music. That intention is independent of whether the ZFT thinks P/O has the right to play FZ music and also whether P/O think they have the right to play FZ music.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Andre should have stopped with his farsical FZ tribute band when they wanted him to.


Why?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:07 pm 
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mil wrote:
Seraph wrote:
He has been unable to sustain a career on his own merits and instead has to leech off FZ's legacy


I'm not trying to diss DZ or ZpZ here, but how is this any different to what DZ is doing? After all, he is lead guitarist in a band covering his father's music, intending to make this an annual event (presumably to the detriment of his own career - it's a big job, after all). I'm not trying to size up the relative merits of ZpZ and P/O or taking any sides here - I just don't see the essential difference between DZ playing FZ's music and AC playing FZ's music (apart from the family connection, which I personally don't think is hugely relevant). So if the above quote applies to AC, I feel it must apply to DZ as well. Better still, it could apply to neither. That's what I'm going for.

This whole episode makes for sorry reading, but like feetlightup has said, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Edit: just to clarify that I've not heard P/O at all, and perhaps an hour of ZpZ via an audience recording, so I'm not thinking about musical merit or otherwise at all here. To me, they're both cover bands, trying to do the same thing - play FZ music. That intention is independent of whether the ZFT thinks P/O has the right to play FZ music and also whether P/O think they have the right to play FZ music.


I think being the son of Frank Zappa is pretty relevant. It's his born right as a member of the family to have that opportunity to play the music and honor his father.

Andre is not family.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:23 pm 
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mil wrote:
Seraph wrote:
He has been unable to sustain a career on his own merits and instead has to leech off FZ's legacy


I'm not trying to diss DZ or ZpZ here, but how is this any different to what DZ is doing? After all, he is lead guitarist in a band covering his father's music, intending to make this an annual event (presumably to the detriment of his own career - it's a big job, after all). I'm not trying to size up the relative merits of ZpZ and P/O or taking any sides here - I just don't see the essential difference between DZ playing FZ's music and AC playing FZ's music (apart from the family connection, which I personally don't think is hugely relevant). So if the above quote applies to AC, I feel it must apply to DZ as well. Better still, it could apply to neither. That's what I'm going for.

This whole episode makes for sorry reading, but like feetlightup has said, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Edit: just to clarify that I've not heard P/O at all, and perhaps an hour of ZpZ via an audience recording, so I'm not thinking about musical merit or otherwise at all here. To me, they're both cover bands, trying to do the same thing - play FZ music. That intention is independent of whether the ZFT thinks P/O has the right to play FZ music and also whether P/O think they have the right to play FZ music.


The fact that you don't think the family connection has relevance means nothing.

It's clear that like a stalker, Andre seems intent on insisting himself into the Zappa realm, even when he's been given clear notice that his presence is undesirable.

He has spent years and way too much effort (certainly bordering on unhealthy obsession) dissing FZ's family, goading them at every turn, and basically daring them to take legal action against him. He's finally reaping the rewards of this passive aggressive behavior, and then has the audacity to be outraged by it. What's even more unsavory, is that he then seizes the opportunity to turn his expulsion from the side of the stage (in the monitor area where REAL professionals are at work, and where he has absolutely no reason to be, no less) and blow it all out of proportion saying he was assaulted, roughed up, berated, spat on, at the behest of Dweezil. None of these things happened.

The fact that Andre even mentioned legal action is laughable, and his decision not to proceed by portraying himself as the bigger, more mature person is farcical. He's not pursuing legal action because none of his allegations are true. A blind jury would be able to instantly spot the bullshit Andre is trying to pass off as truth.

You have to ask yourself, what sort of an unbalanced person goes out of his way to hover around, and attempt to interact with people he so desperately dislikes?

It's called stalking. Look at some case studies and draw your own parallels.

It's unbalanced, and it's disturbing.

I would hope that right about now, Adrian Belew is seriously troubled by the sudden realization that he has an unbalanced nut-job tuning his guitars... and that someone who is supposed to be representing him and his band on the road deliberately sought out conflict with another band at a festival - not once, but on two different nights. A band that his band was supposed to be "opening for."

Let's remember - it was he who put in effort to seek out members of the ZPZ band and crew to interact with, not the other way around.

- Seraph


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:36 pm 
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My personal interpretations of Dweezil's blog. Silence would have been so preferable. He should not get into public fights over this. Very poor publicity strategy. I actually feel less sympathy for his actions, having read his own words:
Quote:
Hello Adrian,
Nice to hear from you.
(...)
On a different topic - perhaps an awkward one - I have been informed that you are working with Andre from Project Object. He is likely your friend as well as your employee so you may not enjoy what is to follow.

Whether you are aware of it or not he has instigated a lot of unpleasant things on our website forum and has made many transgressions musical and otherwise regarding Frank over the years. It would be my preference that he politely remove himself from my view before, during and after our set. For me
the phrase persona non grata is applicable in this case.

I can understand if you feel awkward relaying this and I can even understand if you choose not to accept my invitation to join us on stage as a result.

The fact of the matter is he knows what he has done and it should come as no surprise that I wouldn't appreciate him being anywhere near me now or in the future.

I apologize for having to bring this to your attention.

I thank both of you for your consideration and cooperation on this matter in advance.

Regards, DZ

A politely worded simple request. Here's Adrian's response.

I definitely wouldn't read that as a polite and simple request. It is an ultimatum: Either you do what I want, or we don't deal. Effectively, he is trying to run Adrian's business! Adrian is not amused:
Quote:
dweezil,
please introduce me any way you like.
what key is flakes?
I'll bring the appropriate harmonica.

it's true andre works for me now.
I will make certain he is persona non grata as best I can.

as I told gail, I try always to honor frank, his memory, and his music. he remains a towering inspiration to me. I loved him too, and I could never repay him for what he did for me.

I take responsibility for my own actions, never for the actions of others.
I've have heard bits of the rhetoric surrounding project object (after the fact) but remain apart from it all.
should you or your family have any problem with anything I might ever do, please let me know.

see you onstage.
cheers,
adrian

Adrian seems to sidestep the issue by saying "Persona non grata as best I can" while letting it shine through that he does not like to have others trying to conduct his business: "I take responsibility for my own actions" and "remain apart from it all".
The rest is then wishful interpretations and speculation on Dweezil's part:
Quote:
That was July 1st. Whether or not Adrian decided to convey my request to Andre I do not know for sure. But it is safe to assume by his e-mail that he had every intention of doing so.

I cannot see from the published e-malis that Adrian had "every intention of doing so". On the contrary. I can just as well read a "get off my back son" out of Adrian's mail. So "safe to assume"? Not really.

But Adrian is a pro and goes on stage despite of these, to him probably minor, quibbles. But the fact that Dweezil makes an issue out of Andre's presence is just unprofressional and immature. (And he appears to be throwing some bits of slander into the blog on the side by stating that Andre has violated copyright laws; where is the court evidence for that serious assertion?)

In my opinion, Dweezil should place himself beyond such crap. Show some maturity and don't come up with silly requests to great, innovative musicians like Adrian.

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Last edited by HJ on Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:07 pm 
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Seraph wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Thinking about it, why the fuck would Dweezil go to such lengths in a blog? Even to reveal private e-mails without permission? Maybe he IS scared of getting sued? Oh, well. I'm outta here on this nasty subject.
Too many know-it-alls, eh, Mr. Seraph?


So now Dweezil isn't allowed to give his side of the story and just let Andre spread his shit everywhere? What the fuck is wrong with you? Talk about drinking the Andre kool-aid.

Fuck off brainpang.


My pleasure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:37 pm 
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I've read Andre's and Dweezil's various posts, and followed this ongoing crap for a few years now. I still side with Andre because of the facts we do know.

First, Andre hasn't broken any copyrite laws; he just plays Frank's music in clubs, which is completely legal. You can bet that if laws were actually broken, the ZFT would have found a way to make charges stick, by now.

Second, the ZFT have indeed sent out the lawyers to hassle Andre and his band. Andre did NOT start this ongoing crap, the ZFT did. He didn't start the Dweezil fight.

Third, it is TRUE that Andre is indeed an ambassador for Frank's music, despite Dweezil's heartless description of Andre's role. In fact, he was doing that years ago, with LIVE FZ music, before Dweezil was doing anything at all to bring Frank's music to the public, outside of ZFT releases. Anyone who's seen P/O knows that Andre's mission is true.

I understand that Dweezil hates Andre, and why. But just as Andre gets heated and a bit delusional, SO DOES DWEEZIL. I think that much is clear in both their posts. If Andre showed up on stage when Dweezil's crew are working, that sucks. But if Andre is there because of legitimate Belew-related duties, he has the right to complete those duties. This thing about Dweezil wanting to control who is in his sight is just sophmoric at best.

This sort of thing is what happens when you have two zealots who both go too far. The truth is that they both love Frank's music, and in my view, they should be allowed to co-exist without tamtrums and rancor.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:40 pm 
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blah blah blah

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Help, I'm a Rock wrote:
blah blah blah


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
heated and a bit delusional


Ronny's Noomies wrote:
sophmoric


Ronny's Noomies wrote:
zealot


Ronny's Noomies wrote:
tamtrums and rancor


I see those therapy sessions have been really helping you get in touch with yourself. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:01 am 
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"hello, bob!"

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Bob's your uncle.

:wink:

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a quick note from Adrian's tour manager/guitar tech regarding last night's show 8)

OK MAN -- BACK AT MY HOTEL DESK.

GREAt show tonight --- Number 3 of 3 in Canada...

I dunno... was it 10,000 or 15,000 people there?? 20,000??/ HUGE crowd!!

The show started...

California Guitar Trio w/Tony Levin & Pat Mastellotto - then Adrian joined them for one song....

then CGT leave -- AB Trio does a set.... kills 'em...
then Tony, Pat join AB Trio for Frame By Frame, Julie/bass leaves stage. Eric & Pat on drums...
Then Cali guitar trio comes back --all do Elephant Talk!!

finally CGT leaves....AB3, Tony and Les Claypool..do a GREAT..... Thela Hun Ginjeet

Then Primus-- fantastic...they all watched the show from the side and vice versa

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I agree with HJ. Not a strategic move by DZ at all. Obviously his emotions got the better of him after reading all of the shit on this forum. He sounds really bitter. Shit they both sound bitter. Like I said before, everybody's got to start acting like grown-ups.

I was at that Ottawa show and you could feel the tension. In hindsight I should have yelled out 'we love you Andre!'. The show now has a bit of a different meaning however after all of this. Whatever 'this' is.

DZ looked unhappy when the show was about to begin and then the keyboard was pooched. Arntz is a total pro though and said calmly "I can play it (Eat That Question) on another keyboard" and then they ripped.

That's all I ask for, live Zappa played well.


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richieG wrote:
I agree with HJ. Not a strategic move by DZ at all. Obviously his emotions got the better of him after reading all of the shit on this forum. He sounds really bitter. Shit they both sound bitter. Like I said before, everybody's got to start acting like grown-ups.


I'm not getting involved with the actual details of this whole deal or taking any sides becaus I don't know enough about it, but I don't think you can criticise Dweezil for replying via his blog. If someone is telling their side of the story it's quite natural that he should feel the need to.


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There are 2 things on which Dweezil could and should be criticised based on this blog:

-His highly nasty attitude. He displays Andre as a fuckwit, a stalker with too much imagination. He appears to be highly impolite and arrogant.
-His posting of the E-mail conversation with Adrian. He could've just said "Adrian mailed this, he said he'd be away". Instead he posts other person's e-mail without permission. Bad move.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:14 am 
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this is and the other thread are great popcorn viewing. :mrgreen:

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BillyDaMt wrote:
this is and the other thread are great popcorn viewing. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Adrian Belew
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
this is and the other thread are great popcorn viewing. :mrgreen:

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Indeedy. 8)

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Seraph wrote:

The fact that you don't think the family connection has relevance means nothing.

It's clear that like a stalker, Andre seems intent on insisting himself into the Zappa realm, even when he's been given clear notice that his presence is undesirable.

He has spent years and way too much effort (certainly bordering on unhealthy obsession) dissing FZ's family, goading them at every turn, and basically daring them to take legal action against him. He's finally reaping the rewards of this passive aggressive behavior, and then has the audacity to be outraged by it. What's even more unsavory, is that he then seizes the opportunity to turn his expulsion from the side of the stage (in the monitor area where REAL professionals are at work, and where he has absolutely no reason to be, no less) and blow it all out of proportion saying he was assaulted, roughed up, berated, spat on, at the behest of Dweezil. None of these things happened.

The fact that Andre even mentioned legal action is laughable, and his decision not to proceed by portraying himself as the bigger, more mature person is farcical. He's not pursuing legal action because none of his allegations are true. A blind jury would be able to instantly spot the bullshit Andre is trying to pass off as truth.

You have to ask yourself, what sort of an unbalanced person goes out of his way to hover around, and attempt to interact with people he so desperately dislikes?

It's called stalking. Look at some case studies and draw your own parallels.

It's unbalanced, and it's disturbing.

I would hope that right about now, Adrian Belew is seriously troubled by the sudden realization that he has an unbalanced nut-job tuning his guitars... and that someone who is supposed to be representing him and his band on the road deliberately sought out conflict with another band at a festival - not once, but on two different nights. A band that his band was supposed to be "opening for."

Let's remember - it was he who put in effort to seek out members of the ZPZ band and crew to interact with, not the other way around.

- Seraph


Andre's behaviour, whether you think it's nutty and stalkerish or not, is irrelevant to the context of my post. I merely stated that both DZ and AC play in FZ cover bands, and no amount of family connection can change that. Yes, DZ is honouring his father (rightly so - it's a fine gesture), but DZ is still, like Andre, making a living from recreating FZ's work. Or to put it less pleasantly (like you did in AC's case) "leeching off FZ's legacy."

Whatever the real truth behind this situation is, I think DZ has done himself some damage in handling it the way he did via the blog post. He's not coming out of it smelling of roses, put it that way. Nor is AC, I might add.

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mil wrote:

Whatever the real truth behind this situation is, I think DZ has done himself some damage in handling it the way he did via the blog post. He's not coming out of it smelling of roses, put it that way. Nor is AC, I might add.


Agreed.

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