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 Post subject: re: fz on women
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:05 pm 
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[quote author=Disco Boy link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=90#102 date=01/21/05 at 22:49:22]...Frank's lyrics are primarily humour based...[/quote]<br>then why did he choose to make women the butt of his humo[u]r<br><br>jewish princess is not sexist, and i don't think frank was anti-semitic because of that one song and maybe a couple of other references [manny the camper¿]....if frank had written dozens of jewish princess-type songs, then maybe my opinion would change; there's a clear pattern when it comes to women

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:54 pm 
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What is this shit?


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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:56 pm 
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Sometimes people just over anal eyes things, ya know ? ? ?


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 Post subject: Shes a Fine Girl
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:45 am 
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A good question to ponder in this direction is:<br><br>Is a woman (ie, me) insulted or enraged by songs such as Fine Girl (for example)?<br><br>Answer:  No, it doesn't upset me at all.  I find it uproariously funny for two reasons.  The attitudes are obivously stupid and narrow minded.  Any man who wants a woman like that, wants a a slave and is really going to miss out on the challenging prospect of life with an intelligent strong woman.  (and Zappa, himself, was not married to a woman like that, never forget, and has strong and independent girl children) <br><br>And two, there are some women like that.  (Not as extreme as that, but tragically true).  I'm sad for a minute and then I start laughing again.  <br><br>Actually she has a couple of admirable traits of having practical knowledge and sexual stamina, at least!  I bet she can fix cars, too!  She just needs to decide to not be used anymore and she probably could take care of herself.<br><br>Thats my take, as a humble female Zappa fan anyway.    ;D

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 Post subject: Shes a Fine Girl
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:11 am 
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[quote author=Freddie link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=105#106 date=01/22/05 at 06:45:53]A good question to ponder in this direction is:<br><br>Is a woman (ie, me) insulted or enraged by songs such as Fine Girl (for example)?<br><br>Answer:  No, it doesn't upset me at all.  I find it uproariously funny for two reasons.  The attitudes are obivously stupid and narrow minded.  Any man who wants a woman like that, wants a a slave and is really going to miss out on the challenging prospect of life with an intelligent strong woman.  (and Zappa, himself, was not married to a woman like that, never forget, and has strong and independent girl children) <br><br>And two, there are some women like that.  (Not as extreme as that, but tragically true).  I'm sad for a minute and then I start laughing again.  <br><br>Actually she has a couple of admirable traits of having practical knowledge and sexual stamina, at least!  I bet she can fix cars, too!  She just needs to decide to not be used anymore and she probably could take care of herself.<br><br>Thats my take, as a humble female Zappa fan anyway.    ;D[/quote]<br><br>[center]<br>I consider myself a Fine Girl, who won't settle for anything less than a Fine Boy!<br>It works both ways!<br> :-*<br>[/center]<br>

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:24 am 
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[quote author=Ronnys Noomies link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=105#107 date=01/22/05 at 07:42:23]I surely think I've said everything I can possibly think of on this topic, and more. So, here's a few comments on things that I haven't touched on yet. We've gotten some good mileage out of this one, haven't we?  :)<br><br>Absolutely yes! RIGHT NOW! Are you saying that sexism is dead? That it's a struggle that is OVER? The backlash against the struggles of the 60's and 70's is still going on. Sexism is at least partially or fully responsible for the "glass ceiling," women STILL making 30% less than men for the same job, sexual harrassment, sex crimes, and more.[/quote] And women getting jobs they aren't qualified for because there is a quota to be met, while somebody who is white and male and is totally qualified remains out of work. It should be based on skills, not gender or race. The fix isn't fucking quotas and special treatment, here's the fix: "We have a job that needs done. here are the duties it consists of, here's what it pays, conduct interviews and hire the one best suited for the job and pay them the predetermined price...if it's a 3-eyed martian or a hermaphrodite that worships sand, so be it. All I want is someone who has worked their ass off to develope the skills to do what we need done, everything else about them doesn't matter."<br><br>
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People are killed because of racism.
Yep. But it's never called racism when a black guy kills a white guy, is it? EVER? No, it's not.<br><br>
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Remember when Bush refused to entertain the notion of HATE CRIMES? That's proposed federal legislation in response to people who attack or kill people based on the color of their skin.
<br>See above.<br><br>
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Affirmative action, whatever you think of it,
<br>I think it's a totally abused system<br><br>
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Do you actually believe that blacks have full immunity and no accountibility and no repercussions whatsoever?
<br>Quite often, yeah. I think that because I see and hear it ALL THE TIME.<br><br>
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White guys are still in charge of everything!
<br>Not me, and I'm a white guy.<br><br>If you're a single white guy and you hit a hard patch in your life, tough shit...there's no special programs to specifically help single white guys. Zilch. Zippo. Nada. Contrary to popular belief, all white guys are not rich and powerful.<br><br>
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What have they lost? A little of their comfort zone? I think having to watch what you say is just the first step in change, and even that is soooo hard for the poor "white guys!" Boo hoo!
<br><br>I'm saying level the field; either everybody gets to make fun of everybody, or nobody get's to make fun of anybody. Right now there are so many special rules it's fucking ridiculous, and more keep getting invented every day. Ever notice how freely the terms "redneck", "white trash", "cracker", "white boy". etc. etc. etc. get used on TV? Care to name ONE OTHER RACE that has as many slurs said against them on prime time TV? It's just one example of how the pendulum HAS swung the other way; anybody can openly say anything they want against white guys, but you can't say ANYTHING against women or non whites. Except for blacks-- they are allowed call each other nigger, bitch and ho and that's all supposed to be just fine. And let's not forget that if a black guys says nigger (or niggah ::)) and punches another black guy that's OK, if a white guy says it it's a fucking hate crime. To that ruling I say "BLOW ME!!! Shut the fuck up with all the bullshit!"<br><br>
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Unfortunately, someone has to pay the price in social change. In this case, it's white guys losing a job here or there, or actually having to be careful what they say. Think about how long it's been the other way, and still is! <br>
<br>So I have to pay a special price for some shit that I never had anything to do with in the first place, while others get to reap special rewards for shit that they never had anything to do with in the first place. Oh yeah, THAT'S fair. ::) <br>Oh, that makes total good sense. ::)<br>That's the best way to fix everything-- swing it the other way instead of center it. ::)<br>

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:10 am 
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[quote author=Ronnys Noomies link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=105#114 date=01/22/05 at 13:01:37]Oh, pity the poor white man. He's had such a tough go of it in this world, hasn't he? A couple of them lose a possible job to a  - - gasp! - - woman, or a  - - really big gasp! - - black guy, and they cry and whine and moan about how UNFAIR it is! Meanwhile, through modern history, black folks and women have had to endure that same crap on a daily basis, not to mention being hunted and abused and killed, with nary a peep from the white guys who control it all. But let one of them miss one opportunity, and suddenly the system is rigged, I tell you, RIGGED, to punish the poor white man.  :(<br><br>Those blacks and women have ALL the power these days, don't they? Let's get 'em back under control before more white guys are inconvenienced.<br><br>Boo hoo hoooooooooooo.  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(<br><br>Anybody got a tissue for the poor white man? He's crying, look he's really upset......[/quote]<br>Ronnie, your whole argument is based on TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:56 pm 
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[quote author=Ronnys Noomies link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=105#108 date=01/22/05 at 07:56:22]Jewish Princess is not derogatory??????[/quote]<br>[quote author=Disco Boy link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=105#117 date=01/22/05 at 15:36:16]Of course not. Calling a spade a spade and adding a little humour isn't wrong.<br>[/quote]<br><br>[center]Image<br><br>Disco Boy, I don't think you realize where that phrase originated...<br><br><br>spade n. Offensive Slang. Used as a disparaging term for a Black person. <br><br><br>The irony of that little exchange is just too much. We need to send it to Mel Brooks!<br><br>Image[/center]

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:31 pm 
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right...but that's what the old saying actually meant, not a garden tool or a playing card

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:49 pm 
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[quote author=Disco Boy link=board=quotes;num=1105786629;start=120#122 date=01/22/05 at 16:41:32]Ok, but since that's the old saying, then I meant how the word is usually referred to nowadays: calling something what it is.<br>[/quote]<br>I know that...that's how ironic statements work ;) ;D

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 Post subject: Re: What is this shit?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:54 pm 
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I'm submitting this essay on Frank for an english assignment (I got all the info from this thread):<br><br>Frank Zappa is a homophobic homosexual sexist racist motherfucker who hates men and women and hates the world and hates you too, yes you he hates all of us but especialy me and you we know this because his lyrics are sexist especialy against women and his lyrics are very supportive of women and he hates mankind and men-kind and he is a man and he hates everyone even you, you tiny brained jack-in-a-box homophobic homo!<br><br>


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