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What do you think of FZ' more comedy/satire inspired music? the kind of stuff that is galore on albums like Flo & Eddie era stuff, Overnite/(')/OSFA as well as Sheik Yerbouti and anything with vocals beyond?

I'm not too keen on when FZ sings of sex. Not that I am a prude, but it's just that this kind of stuff seems blatantly gratuituous and just done to portray himself as "politically incorrect" or "funny" "comedian". That's stupid humour for me. I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive. Too bad really because the song itself is quite catchy but i can't agree with its lyrical content. When FZ becomes astute, however, is when he attacks the targets that actually deserve ridicule, such as: New Age crap ("Cosmik Debris"), corruption ("Dickie's Such an Asshole"), mass media brainwashing ("I'm The Slime"), Religious Right ("Dumb All Over" and various Swaggart bashing songs), Unions and the way they let irresponsible shoddy workmen get away scot-free ("unions") and so on. So in other words, sometimes his satire works but some of his comedy crap just forces me to sympathize with the ones who only prefer FZ' instrumental music.

I would also add that political correctness might be flawed but rabid political incorrectness doesn't help always either. You see, at an atheists' message board when I raised the question about PC I was told by one of the co-posters that PC is like an immune system which fights disease. However, without critical thought, the immune system can become so sensitive to disease that it might attack anything that even remotely resembles a pathogen: even if they're harmless cells from one's own body. The result will be a disproportionate immune or allergic reaction, making normal healthy life difficult to achieve. Same way with un-PC attitude. It can serve well to attack the tendencies that should be criticized but some are just too pusillanimous to do so. However, if the politically incorrect see evil where it might not be, then their attacks will only serve to contribute to a disharmonious environment where some people or groups of people are needlessy ridiculed or defamed.

I don't see that at all. Sounds a little hypersensitive, like saying I used the word "hypersensitive" to seem like I got it all figured out.

Anyway, there's not a single song from FZ that I don't like.

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What can you do that's fantastic?

There are some topics in Frank's songs that make me wince. Sometimes thats because he hit the nail on the head and i don't like it. Sometimes its because from my viewpoint he didn't do the subject justice. Guess it depends on which topics he is roasting over the open fire and what you are most sensitive about or knowlegable about. He was the equal opportunity satirist.

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Country music + Black music = Rock and Roll

I haven't heard all of it yet, but albums like WOIIFTM & Overnite Sensation really make me laugh. I guess it's just because I'm a teenager and I find that type of lyrical content humorous. Dinah-Moe Humm has to be one of the dirtiest songs I've ever heard, lyrically wise.

A world with FZ's sense of humor is better than one without it.

-He who laughs, lasts!

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I have no problem with those types of songs. Hell, I'm nearly 30 and it still makes me laugh. Come on, this would be a shitty world without fart jokes and other kinds of crude humor.

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Take it away Don Pardo!

Fart jokes are always the funniest. Toilet humour rules!

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

Heck, I'll soon be 52 years old and 'Filmore 71' 'Overnite Sensation' 'Apostrophe' 'Joe's Garage' ect...still make me laugh even after hearing them over 100 times. The subject matter doesn't matter it's all just in jeast. Like Frank said these albums made the money to afford him to do other projects.

Until you hear Magdalena off of Just Another Band From L.A.

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Wanna Buy A Grunt With A Third Party Check

Surprisingly enough, references to sexuality on Apostrophe are minimal if not totally nonexistent.

True, but it does include dog shit, and the dreaded yellow snow. I thought the point was comedy and why Zappa went that route. Which the question didn't make sense seeing he started with a degree of satire and political incorrectness from the very first album.

Puerile prurience didn't enter FZ's music until Chunga's Revenge though.

Not so, on WOIIFTM the lines "I don't do publicity balling for you anymore" plus the songs 'Harry you're a beast' and 'Who needs the Peace Corp?' those are ladened with sexual overtones in a time when it was unheard of the '60s. People like Lenny Bruce were still getting arrested on morality charges.

Or how about Big Leg Emma? Seems pretty crude for the time period, not that I mind...

Having grown up on stuff like the Geto Boys, 2 Live Crew, NWA etc., there's not much in the Zappa catalogue that's really shocking or insulting to my ears.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

Yer right about that. Frank's lyrics are nothing (profanity-wise) compared to the lyrics of today.

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Some folks got it,
some folks don't,
some so yoogly,
they never won't

I just love FZ's cruel, bizarre, cynical, sarcastic humour! I have to admit that I like his instrumental stuff best, but I really like to listen to his humorous side too. He WAS a great humourist! That was so much a part of his artistic endeavours, so neglecting that is neglecting a major part of FZ's output...

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Music is the best. Music composed by FZ is the very best!

Me too!!! He was a one off!



Yep, I agree. I got into his music first, as "Peaches" was the very first track I ever heard. I was amazed at the composition. Totally blew me away.
Such an mindblowingly tight and "together" sound, despite the fact that there is so much going on in that song. It was later I got into his satirical side, once I discovered that, it was a HUGE bonus for me. His music makes me laugh one minute, then the next, I'm listening to something else and I'm deep in thought...it stirs so many emotions in me in the time it takes to listen to one Album. I aint come across many artists who are capable of that. Sure, emotions are a huge part of how lots of music makes you feel, but to feel so many in the space of maybe 50 minutes, is what I call genius. They broke the fecking mould when they made him.

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

I like Zappa's sense of humour. It's clever. He doesn't always make me laugh out loud, but it's entertaining enough.

The only song of his I don't like at all...the one that I never get a desire to listen to at all..is Dynamo Humm. That's it. Probably because the lyrics take the center stage and other than that it's a fairly normal pop song. Other 'horny teenage boy' lyrics don't bother me. (Like Bwana Dik, Honey Don't You Want..? and so on).

If you don't like the lyrics, focus on the music. It's that simple. So many of his 'vocal' oriented songs seem like they were written as instrumentals originally.

EDIT: Also..what exactly are we considering his 'comedy' songs? The sex oriented ones? Cause I'd say about 90% of his material is designed around humour. 'Porn Wars', for instance, is funny. So is 'Ya Honza'.

politically correct, or incorrect- who gives a shit?

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

He was hilarious most of the time. Whether his comedy was appropriate for everyone is debateable. Like little kids or people who are adverse to it. I don't think i really got his jokes when i first heard them or wasn't open to it and found alot of his 4th grade humor a bit self indulgent. if you watch his videos i think it's pretty apparent that he was milking the nonsensical. maybe that's why he became so overly political in the end. Maybe he realised he was wasting precious time . I was always more interested in his musical side but he obviously needed to balance that brilliance with the mundane. I love his sense of humor. No regrets.

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Stop Plate Techtonics!!
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Yeah, I hate all that PC crap anyway!

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

My daughter is almost 10, and she doesn't understand half of what he's singing about. I have no problem with her listening to him at all. It could be worse, she could be poisoning her tiny impressionable young mind with Christian Rock or Celine Dion or worse still.....BRYAN ADAMS!!!

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

yeah, true. the worst Zappa is still miles ahead the best celine dion.

One thing I have been wondering about myself is:

What if FZ would have met someone who would confess to prefer largely his instrumental music to his more comedy oriented stuff? Someone to love, admire and respect "Hot Rats", "Wazoo", "Orchestral Favourites", classical compositions on "200 Motels", "Jazz From Hell", "Lumpy Gravy" but to dislike "Chunga's Revenge", "Overnite Sensation", "Sheik Yerbouti" and their ilk? Would he have written the dude off the same way he wrote the "Original MOI only" camp off, throwing tags like "elitist", "prude", "fetishist" and so on? or would he have actually been glad to meet someone who understands the depth of his more complex compositions and his aspirations and who isn't just a dumb consumerist drooling over "Dinah Mo Hum?" that's a dilemma we probably will never know.

Considering how many of those people exist, he probably DID meet quite a few. For instance, I strongly doubt that Boulez had any interest in Zappa's comedy songs at all.

You are entitled to support this side of FZ but this doesn't change the way I perceive FZ' sexual parodism to sound gratuituous, and often banal.