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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:47 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Caputh wrote:

I think it's probably the part about how a living, breathing homo sapiens, who has not had a lobotomy could believe that the above was the case after having read the Mueller Report.

Apparently, over 450 Republican and Democrat federal prosecutors now have the same difficulty. "Trump would have been charged with obstruction were he not president hundreds of former prosecutors assert."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... d02c9357ab


Those are opinions. Which, in fact, make NO sense for a couple of reasons. Firstly, if that was true, then there would've been NO point to the investigation other than to smear Trump's name. Secondly, it also makes NO sense considering Mueller recommended NO further indictments since...

RETURN. OF. THE. RETURN. OF. THE. SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

...THERE IS NO EVIDENCE PROVING TRUMP/RUSSIAN COLLUSION OR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.


Caputh wrote:
But my misunderstanding has now turned to understanding, as I realize that like Barr, who lied about his conversation with Mueller (as proven by the letter written to Barr by Mueller on the 27th of March 2019, viz: "The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office's work and conclusions." ), this person was also lying to cover his own errors. Either that, or he's had a lobotomy. Or he hasn't read the Mueller Report.

In any case, thank you for confirming my suspicions.


ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Also, and again, as evidenced in Barr's televised testimony, when Barr phoned Mueller to ask him about his complaint, Mueller confirmed that it had NOTHING to do with Barr's summary being incorrect, but instead had to do with Barr not including the media's coverage in his summary. That's IT.



And btw, Barr wasn't even required to release the Mueller Report. Which renders your assumption that Barr was covering up or lying to make NO sense whatsoever. :roll:


The opinions of 459 Democrat and Republican prosecutors versus the opinion of Trump, Barr and Disco Boy. Hmmm... I wonder who we should trust?

The reason why Mueller concludes that Trump cannot be indicted is, not because of lack of evidence. It is his opinion that a sitting President cannot be indicted.

As to Barr's utter distortion of Mueller's report, I found the following article extremely informative...

"Mueller revealed why he didn't charge Trump with obstruction, and it directly contradicts what Barr told the public...


Barr said Mueller didn't make a decision on obstruction because of "'difficult issues' of law and fact" about whether Trump's actions were criminal.

What the Mueller report said: The report does mention that prosecutors faced "difficult issues" while investigating Trump for obstruction.

But Barr's characterization of what they were referring to is misleading.

Barr implied Mueller's team collected a certain amount of evidence in the obstruction case but that they were unable to determine whether that evidence rose to the level of obstruction.

In their report, prosecutors wrote, "The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred."

In other words, prosecutors appear to be saying that if they could, they would conclude Trump did not engage in criminal wrongdoing. But they couldn't do so because the evidence they collected led them to believe otherwise.


Barr said Mueller laid out evidence "on both sides" of the obstruction issue.


What the Mueller report said: Prosecutors listed 11 events that could potentially amount to obstruction of justice, outlined below:

"The Campaign's response to reports about Russian support for Trump."
"Conduct involving FBI Director Comey and Michael Flynn."
"The President's reaction to the continuing Russia investigation."
"The President's termination of Comey."
"The appointment of a Special Counsel and efforts to remove him."
"Efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation."
"Efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence."
"Further efforts to have the Attorney General take control of the investigation."
"Efforts to have McGahn deny that the President had ordered him to have the Special Counsel removed."
"Conduct towards Flynn, Manafort, [REDACTED]."
"Conduct involving Michael Cohen."

For each event, prosecutors painted a detailed picture of the president's repeated efforts to hamper the investigation through multiple avenues.

That included Trump's decision to fire Comey and the motives behind it; his attempts to engineer Mueller's ouster; his efforts to get investigators to publicly exonerate him; his attempts to conceal his financial interests in Russia while Congress was probing the issue; his anger toward Jeff Sessions for recusing himself; and his attempts to shield associates such as Flynn and Manafort from investigative scrutiny.

According to US law, in order to establish an obstruction offense, the following criteria need to be met:

An individual has corrupt intent.
They engaged in obstructive conduct.
That conduct was connected to a "pending or contemplated proceeding."

In several instances, prosecutors outlined conduct that appears to meet those criteria, most notably involving Trump's conversations with the former White House counsel Don McGahn and his attempts to get McGahn to remove Mueller as special counsel.

But prosecutors provided little, if any, mitigating information pointing to Trump's innocence.

In fact, they emphasized, "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment."

Barr said the OLC's 1973 decision did not influence Mueller's choice not to conclude whether Trump obstructed justice.

What the Mueller report said: When laying out why they chose not to make a conclusion on obstruction, the first thing prosecutors mentioned was the OLC decision.

The OLC found that "the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions," the report said.

"Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations ... this Office accepted OLC's legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction," prosecutors said.

Barr said Mueller's report states that "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

On this claim, which Barr quoted directly from the report, the attorney general is correct.

But prosecutors went further than stating they did not exonerate Trump.

Specifically, they laid out a road map of evidence that could bolster ongoing or future investigations into Trump's conduct while in office.

In the obstruction case, prosecutors wrote, "We recognize that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting president would place burdens on the president's capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential conduct."

Several Democratic lawmakers said that assertion was a reference to congressional oversight of the executive branch.

A footnote following the statement in the Mueller report appears to confirm as much, saying the "constitutional processes" refer to "the relationship between impeachment and the criminal prosecution of a sitting president."


Crucially, Mueller's team also disagreed with Barr's contention that a president cannot obstruct justice. And contrary to what Barr believes, Mueller's team said a person can be guilty of obstruction even if no underlying crime — like conspiracy — exists.

Here's why Mueller didn't charge Trump with obstruction, according to his report.

Mueller's report lays out three main reasons why prosecutors didn't indict Trump or suggest he should be charged:

They adhered to the OLC's 1973 decision that a sitting president cannot be indicted.
They believed that if their report suggested Trump could face federal charges without actually bringing them, it would not be fair because there would be no trial, and he wouldn't have an opportunity to clear himself.
Mueller did not consider filing a sealed indictment against Trump out of fear that it would be leaked and significantly impede his ability to govern.

Notably, however, prosecutors said that while the OLC's guidance says a sitting president cannot be indicted, it "recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President's term is permissible."

"The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office," they added. "Given those considerations, the facts known to us, and the strong public interest in safeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system, we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available."

That wording leaves open the possibility that Trump could be charged with obstruction of justice once he leaves office."
https://www.businessinsider.de/why-muel ... 019-4?op=1

So, when Barr claims that his discussions with Mueller were only concerned with possible media reactions and we have a letter from Mueller to Barr that explicitly states that his concern is that Barr's summary is inaccurate, it is hardly surprising when quite a lot of people don't believe Barr. In addition, the Trump administration's track record for repeatedly telling barefaced lies that can easily be refuted is so established that any attempt to claim that they wouldn't lie because they would get found out is risible.

Apparently, they operate under the impression that if you repeat something often enough, using almost exactly the same words, some "fucking idiot" is bound to believe you, sooner or later.

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 Post subject: Re: for #LandofDolt45
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 7:59 am 
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What Happened To All The Jobs Trump Promised?

an in depth look by ProPublica

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:18 am 
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What happened ?
Same since Trump got in.

He lied.
His fan base swallowed it as it was the Holy Scripture.
The rest tried to make sense with that fan base. They've been trashed and denied.
His fan base preferred to believe a repeated liar.
His fan base only get their infos from FOX and alt-right medias affiliated with Reps.
His fan base still thinks Trump is the Messiah.
His fan base voluntary closed their eyes to evidences.
His fan base applaud every attempt of Trump to destroy Justice and Democracy.
His fan base chose to be a bunch of idiots.
BUT... his fan base is still a strong 40% of Americans.
(and at least one Canadian here, which is really stupid)
His fan base, thanks again to the Electoral College, has a solid chance to see Trump as President again in 2020.

As Frank would say "Only in America".

Meanwhile, close your windows tight cause you may hear Russia, North Korea, Israel, South Arabia, and China laughing too hard.
They still can't believe their chance.
:P
:smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: for #LandofDolt45
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:06 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
What Happened To All The Jobs Trump Promised?

an in depth look by ProPublica
Bob Englehart
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 Post subject: Re: for #LandofDolt45
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:26 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
What Happened To All The Jobs Trump Promised?

an in depth look by ProPublica


Now that was very interesting...

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 Post subject: Re: disco trump
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
What part of this do you NOT understand?! :roll:
Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Don't you understand we understand you don't understand? 8)
:smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Although I'd like to be as patient as you are, I can't help it...
What a waste of time !
:P

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 Post subject: Re: disco trump
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
What part of this do you NOT understand?! :roll:
Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Don't you understand we understand you don't understand? 8)
:smoke:
Milt Priggee
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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:27 pm 
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Math is a totally new science with Trump !
:mrgreen:

Oh, Lord, thanks for all the stupids that make my day !!!
8) :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Caputh, you keep sinking (almost willingly?!) into quicksand since NOTHING you've stated above detracts from the below FACTS:


RETURN. OF. THE. RETURN. OF. THE. RETURN. OF. THE. SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

There is NO evidence proving Trump/Russian collusion or obstruction of justice (especially for a crime that did NOT even happen).

SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Also, and again, as evidenced in Barr's televised testimony, when Barr phoned Mueller to ask him about his complaint, Mueller confirmed that it had NOTHING to do with Barr's summary being incorrect, but instead had to do with Barr not including the media's coverage in his summary. That's IT. And hence, this renders your above summaries to be moot points. Especially since Mueller did NOT complain or state after his phone call with Barr or after Barr's televised testimony that Barr's summary was inaccurate. Not only that but it's NOT even Mueller's job to exonerate - it's his job to investigate and present his findings. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:39 pm 
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You'd better tell Barr how "moot" those points are, then, as they've just held him in contempt and the House Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed him...

Anyone for quicksand?

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:32 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Also, and again, . . .
This is a case for the Department of Redundancy Department. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:57 am 
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Caputh wrote:
You'd better tell Barr how "moot" those points are, then, as they've just held him in contempt and the House Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed him...

Anyone for quicksand?


No rest until all those bastards are behind bars.
:smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:13 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
You'd better tell Barr how "moot" those points are, then, as they've just held him in contempt and the House Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed him...

Anyone for quicksand?


B.F.D.

The REAL investigations are to begin shortly...because we now need to get to the bottom of who kickstarted this bogus Trump/Russian collusion investigation in the first place.

Comey, the DNC, Hillary Clinton and all the related players involved are apparently for quicksand...

3:48 - 16:24:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqcoxJ9SI0s

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:44 am 
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According to Sean Hannity, Rudy Giuliani and Laura Ingraham... :smurf:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:28 am 
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/petitions-10-million-signatures-impeach-trump-delivered-congress-n1004041

It's a start but it will take more than that.

But maybe impeachment would be bad for Dems.
Those Reps would whine and cry all the way.
And guilty Trump would look like a victim.
Some would take his side by sympathy, it happens all the time.

The real impeachment should be at the next election.
That 10 millions should rise to more than 200 millions.
It's way above the majority line but with that Electoral College...
:smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 am 
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Trump has done his fair share of impeachable offenses, and he should be impeached.
The Senate Republicans will never vote to remove him from office though. If Trump
is impeached by the House, Donnie will wear his impeachment like a badge of honor
and play the victim card. Look what the Liberal Dems are trying to do to your "favorite"
President, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:31 am 
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MOOP wrote:
Trump has done his fair share of impeachable offenses, and he should be impeached.
The Senate Republicans will never vote to remove him from office though.
R. J. Matson
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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:06 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
According to Sean Hannity, Rudy Giuliani and Laura Ingraham... :smurf:


...and hundreds of other logically & politically-minded representatives... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Caputh wrote:
According to Sean Hannity, Rudy Giuliani and Laura Ingraham... :smurf:
...and hundreds of other logically & politically-minded representatives... :wink:
Shouldn't a hyphen immediately follow the word "logically", Mr. Smart Guy?

Mike Luckovich

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:31 am 
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Just remember that DB is Canadian, and he's cheering for Trump.
After all the economic mess Trump did to Canada, and the disdain he shows.
As stupid as a chickhen voting for Colonel Sanders.
:P

Now he's hurting USA economics more these days !?!
If the idiots could open their eyes, he wouldn't last very long.
BTW, what is the life expectancy of stupidity ?

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:55 am 
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Fairplay at its best ?
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/donald-trump-cheats-and-vladimir-putin-stumbles-59422789511

The kind of guys you want to lead a country...
:P :smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: TRUMP
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:56 pm 
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So much winning!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPIXP7qO0o
CNBC
Financial markets should abandon any remaining illusion that U.S.-China trade talks are a time-constrained, tradable event that ultimately will result in a deal reassuring investors. Near dead is the notion that both sides would inevitably compromise because they so badly need agreement for their own political and economic purposes.

What markets have misunderstood since the negotiations resumed last December – but U.S. and Chinese officials have grasped – is that the talks had become just one of many events of a new era of geopolitical and systemic competition that will define our times. To earn their pay, market analysts will have to get a lot better at pricing in geopolitical risk.


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