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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:08 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Have you ever listened to Low or Heroes? What trend was he following when he released those in 1977? Way more important and influential albums than Sheik Yerbouti and Joe's Garage, as much as I enjoy them. And the comment about what Bowie'd be without Iggy and Lou is about as insightful and redundant as a question about what Zappa would be without Stravinsky and Varese. Where would poor old Lou have been in the Seventies without Bowie's support and production of Transformer? Please, do yourself a favour and listen Station to Station, Low and Heroes in one concentrated sitting before you reply. Your fluffy ideas about Bowie might gain some weight in the process. And while you're at it, why not check out Stage as well - to hear how Adrian Belew did his thing and thrived in Bowie's 1978 band.

I tend to agree. The german output was hugely inventive, especially low. Following Fripp though, bowie became rapidly unlistenable. Reed and Pop are FZs equivalent of beefheart - ok in small doses.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
Zappa Bowie Bieber no difference... I get what you are saying about your employer. But Adrian is one of few artist to have a career full of integrity. Bowie might be pop but if you can't find anything to enjoy there then I'm baffled.(listen to Lodger, Red, etc... so many great albums with great music). Going from Zappa to Bowie to the Talking Heads, to producing the Tom Tom Club to King Crimson and working with NIN is nothing to laugh at. And a far cry from joining a typical "pop" ensemble or following a paycheck.

Also a lot of work goes into a Bette Midler tour, she has a huge ensemble... Might be crazy but I bet he (Bobby Martin) had fun on those tours arranging for all those instruments and running rehearsals.

Duran Duran, not my cup of tea. I did note Joe Travers used to be their drummer. Anyone know if that led to meeting WC and then the Zappa's or the Zappa's then WC then Duran Duran?

I agree 100% that Adrian's career is full of artistic integrity, probably more so than any other Zappa sideman. Nothing wrong with Bobby Martin being Bette Midler's musical director either.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:48 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
The comments about David Bowie in this thread are beyond stupid.

My comments are all well founded. I encourage you to seek out David Bowie's sources. His attempts at incorporating funk or even rock and roll music are quite weak. And why comment on the sentence I edited out and ignore all of the real points in my post? Zappa, Varese, Stravinsky...they are in the deep- end of the musical pool. There's nothing wrong with not knowing how to swim but I'm not interested in watching someone doggie-paddle. And I shouln't even respond to comparisons of Lou Reed or Iggy Pop to David Bowie. If we're talking fashion- Bowie wins. Hands down. But we're talking music. Bowie had money/power so he helped out his influences (Reed, Pop) who had less. He did the right thing. Bowie has all my respect as a human being. But those albums he produced for Iggy suck anytime you hear Bowie's musical influence coming through. Blah Blah Blah is a horrible production. Iggy had to fix the Bowie damage on Raw Power in the 90's. Transformer has great songs and Bowie's production didn't really matter. It was Bowie's NAME that mattered in 1972. I'd rather hear those songs raw. Lou Reed style.
downer mydnyte wrote:
I don't want this discussion to be about the merits of David Bowie's music

So much for that, fuckers! :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:41 pm 
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@downer mydnyte

There's nothing wrong in discussing the merits of Bowie's music in a thread about Adrian Belew on a Zappa forum. Belew's comments about his learning process isn't exactly material for great debate, so why not fly off on a tangent?

Your call for authenticity is quaint and could be charming coming from a less acerbic entity. But in rock, the proof has always been in the pudding, which is why artists like Bob Dylan and The Rolling Stones (in the Sixties and Seventies) were able to transcend their greedy appropriation of alien forms and become symbols of rooted integrity. It's possible to start as a fake and end up real, through commitment to the form. Roots grow.

Rock is the art of pissed off teenagers, and every rock musician is an artist in Joyce's Dublin sense of the word - a swindler, a con artist. The vital ingredient of rock isn't meaning, but KICKS. There's integrity in Bowie's acknowledging the mercurial nature of the form.

Annyone who's listened to more than 20-25 David Bowie albums knows there's horrible stuff there, but you could easily say the same thing about Lou Reed's and Iggy Pop's catalogs. I only have a fleeting interest in Bowie's work after Scary Monsters, but his efforts before that are - like chocolate egg cream - not to be missed. (Spot the Lou Reed quote.) Even Young Americans has its charms, phony as it is. I admit that enjoying an album like Young Americans comes down to taste, interest in Bowie's other works and a sense of humor. Why does everything have to be so real in this world hostile to dreamers?

On the subject of rock and authenticity, White Light/White Heat is an interesting case. I know you prefer Loaded, and as idiosyncratic as you are maybe don't even appreciate one of Lou Reed's own most cherished albums. I have always loved the second VU album, and even idolized it as an authentic statement right from the gutter/rock's streetwise soul. And yet as I listen to the 45th annniversary edition, I can't help but think that White Light/White Heat is as contrived as any other rock record. The incessant run for KICKS, by pissed off (almost) teenagers. Now go on about the big-nosed Welshman. But Lou Reed penned The Gift, which is about as authentic as Bob Dylan's first album (not authentic). I still get a huge kick from White Light/White Heat, though.

As I get kicks out of the four or five David Bowie albums from the era when Adrian Belew joined the band, which you haven't discussed. But of course, there's really nothing to discuss - albums like Low, Heroes and Stage can't be faulted.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:40 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
... albums like Low, Heroes and Stage can't be faulted.

Well, you left that door open...
amg review for Stage:

The second of two inessential double live albums David Bowie released in the '70s, 1978's Stage is a different beast than its 1974 predecessor, David Live. That album captured Bowie in a transitional phase, sliding from glam to stylized soul, while Stage was recorded in the thick of his Berlin phase with producer/collaborator Brian Eno, and Stage is an attempt to translate that sleek, angular, arty studio-bound sound to the live arena. This means not only are Low and Heroes given live treatments, but about half of both Ziggy Stardust and Station to Station are given new arrangements here. On these older tunes, the new flair -- the synthesizers and Adrian Belew's tangled, mathematical guitar -- doesn't sound sleek, it sounds chintzy and cheap, not quite fully formed. The newer songs suffer from this, too, and that's because the performances are too direct and the recording is too crisp and clear, removing the dark, foreboding mystery and assuredness that made Low and Heroes thrilling, compelling listens. Consequently, Stage winds up as a curiosity, and not a very interesting one at that.

Personally, I like about 1/2 of Stage a lot.
For Bowie's style, I've been thinking just now about how presentational he is. I'm finding that a useful term that David Byrne uses a lot in his book How Music Works. downer, I wonder what you think about presentational art, as opposed to the instinctual, self-expository, gut-reaction type you tend to favor?
Either of you 2 like Mott the Hoople? I wonder sometimes whether it is Bowie's presence that makes All the Young Dudes the only album of theirs that I enjoy.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:53 am 
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Arkay, you found the open door :mrgreen: but Stage is much better with the sequence of the latest 2CD, following the set list and flow of the concerts.

I never even checked out Mott the Hoople, so I can't say anything about them.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:54 am 
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Just to clarify.... I feel I have been misqouted earlier and taken out of context.

Downer I meant to say I understood what (now I forget who) was saying about musicians mostly just taking a job because it's a job. (I'm not saying Zappa and Bieber are the same I'm saying that a lot of people on crap albums are just getting a check because it's a job and they need to eat and alot of people have left bands that make better music for bands that pay well... IAN UNDERWOODS FUCKING CAREER.)

What I WAS saying is that comparing Bowie to Bieber is ridiculous and that this does not reek AT ALL of Adrian selling out. Bowie was making interesting music that pushed a lot WEIRD for being mainstream. Frank got by ignoring radioplay and all that, Bowie got by CHANGING what got played on the radio.

I love Frank and he makes better music, but I have a lot of respect for Bowie especially in the position we have now to largely reflect on a career (though his last album was great so there are more chapters to write I hope.)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Just when I thought the posters on this forum couldn't get any more moronic, downer mydnyte appears...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Just when I thought the posters on this forum couldn't get any more moronic, downer mydnyte appears...

Just because his opinion differs from yours (or mine) doesn't mean he's moronic. But of course we know that you are always ready to fly off on the least interesting tangent of all - personal insults :P

downer mydnyte wrote:
Bowie has all my respect as a human being. But those albums he produced for Iggy suck anytime you hear Bowie's musical influence coming through. Blah Blah Blah is a horrible production.

It's truly strange that you choose to mention an album from 1986 while ignoring the classic Bowie/Pop collaborations from the era just before Belew joined Bowie's band - The Idiot and Lust for Life. You would be the first Iggy Pop fan I've come across who thinks those albums suck because of David Bowie's influence.

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David Bowie and Iggy Pop, Copenhagen Railway Station, 1976.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:42 am 
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I think this is an interesting discussion.
On the one hand, I agree with DC that "Low", "Stage", "Lodger" and "Scary Monsters" are definitely interesting albums, which I enjoy very much - though I can't stand "Heroes", basically because of the title track.
On the other, I can empathize with DM's opinion about the rest of his career. The problem with Bowie, for me, is that he is, essentially, a British/European artist. This means for me, that when he starts making albums that are outside that culture, he seems slightly lost and, indeed, imitative (c.f. "Young Americans"). Genres that are purely American thus sound a little bit fake when Bowie tries them, IMO.

For me, this a matter of personal taste; I also have problems with e.g. the Rolling Stones for the same reason. I really enjoy their "English" records (e.g. "Between the Buttons", "Satanic Majesties'", but have always found their forays into the blues field faux. Basically, English junkies jamming a bit.

This argument obviously falls down completely when one considers Bowie's 60s output, which is English and crap at the same time - c.f. "The Laughing Gnome" or "Love You 'Till Tuesday" and somehow I never bought into "Ziggy Stardust" either.

Still, I don't think you can blame Belew for making a career move - Zappa doesn't really seem to have- and Belew certainly has had an interesting career since.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:02 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Ok, where was Bowie in 1978... He had just released Station to Station, Low and Heroes. He was working with Brian Eno and Iggy Pop and namedropped by Kraftwerk on Trans-Europe Express. He would go on to record Lodger and Scary Monsters. Adrian joined the Stage tour, at the summit of one of the greatest careers in rock, with Bowie at the height of his musical powers. Not the worst move I could think of.


I saw that tour, it was hands down the best Bowie I've seen. I remember being astonished at seeing Belew as the guitarist (I didn't know he'd jumped ship). Adrian blew the roof off the place. Sorry, just a little nostalgia for the old folks. Carry on.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:23 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
You would be the first Iggy Pop fan I've come across who thinks those albums suck because of David Bowie's influence.


I don't know where you live but it's not an uncommon sentiment. Actually, Richard Meltzer, Legs Mcneil and Lester Bangs have all expressed it in print or interviews. Not that I care what they think. I never liked The Idiot. I figured I'd offend less people if I trashed Bowie's production on Blah Blah Blah.
I'm really just having fun here...so...you know...fuck what I think about David Bowie! Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust/Diamond Dogs are my favorites.
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Caputh wrote:
The problem with Bowie, for me, is that he is, essentially, a British/European artist. This means for me, that when he starts making albums that are outside that culture, he seems slightly lost and, indeed, imitative (c.f. "Young Americans"). Genres that are purely American thus sound a little bit fake when Bowie tries them, IMO.

I just remembered an interview with William Burroughs interviewing Patti Smith and she mentions that Bowie didn't do it for her, specifically because he was not American! From 1978. I don't recall the publication but it can be found in the book Burroughs Live.




DiscoBoy wishes I was a moron because it makes him feel more secure in his delusions.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:04 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Just when I thought the posters on this forum couldn't get any more moronic, downer mydnyte appears...

Just because his opinion differs from yours (or mine) doesn't mean he's moronic.


Well, it doesn't NECESSARILY mean that. But as far as I'm concerned, his Bowie related posts in this thread are some of the stupidest comments I've heard on this forum in quite a long time.

And what you've stated above is incredibly ironic, considering you stated this earlier in the thread:

DC Boogie wrote:
The comments about David Bowie in this thread are beyond stupid.


DC Boogie wrote:
But of course we know that you are always ready to fly off on the least interesting tangent of all - personal insults :P


That's not true at all. If I'm throwing an insult, the poster who's on the receiving end deserves it. In most cases, I state my case, then others flame me for 10+ pages by throwing ad hominems at me, instead of providing logical reasons why I'm not correct. Consequently, I'm not just going to sit down and take their shit. I'll defend my position...

downer mydnyte wrote:
DiscoBoy wishes I was a moron because it makes him feel more secure in his delusions.


No, as far as I'm concerned, you are one. Your positing history, at least to me, proves it. Especially when you throw blanket statements without backing your shit up or how you think that if an artist is earning a living by making music, that it automatically means the music in question is somehow automatically inferior. You see, I'd respect you FAR more if you could actually back your shit up...even if I disagreed with you...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:59 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
throwing ad hominems at me...

ad hominem
with the goblin
ad hominem boy
from the mystery world
etc
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 pm 
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@downer mydnyte

What did those critics have to say about Zappa in the late Seventies?

I live in Centerville, Norway (also known as Oslo), and all the Iggy Pop fans I've met like The Idiot and Lust for Life. Nobody here knew of Iggy until the punk years, so the punks and rockers from around 1977-79 are his first generation of Norwegian fans. We even had a decent punk band called Johnny Yen Bang!

I suppose it's not surprising that I like your preferred Bowie albums as well, especially Hunky Dory and Diamond Dogs, which I borrowed on cassette from a friend almost 35 years ago. Low, Heroes etc. were all part of my first collection of 20 or so cassettes before I got a record player around 1980. Other titles: Sheik Yerbouti, Joe's Garage Act 1, ZiNY, Studio Tan, Zoot Allures, The Beatles Blue Album, Pink Floyd Animals, a couple of Ry Cooder's, Godley & Creme L, Changesonebowie and a few others. By the time of JG 2/3 I had a turntable.

Lou Reed's Live Take No Prisoners was one of my first LPs. Admittedly a strange entry to Reed, but not a bad one, either. I've learnt to appreciate the revelations of a provincial/peripheral approach. Roots grow.

8)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:27 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
What did those critics have to say about Zappa in the late Seventies?

Meltzer was too genuine a human being to remain a "serious" (as if) rock critic into the late 70's. Meltzer is a writer. I know Lester Bangs liked Beefheart but I don't pay attention to critics. I paid some attention to those 3 guys somewhere along my way for whatever reason. I check out stuff that I am not into (ie: music criticism) so that I can have an informed opinion on it if it comes up. Fuck music critics, anyway, right?
You were just defending an artist you respect. I respect that. I wouldn't keep knocking him.
I really don't take it personal if someone trashes a band I like. I enjoy that kind of conversation. Disco Boy once laughed at me because I said I like Black Flag and the next day Chumcloud is saying that Black Flag were "awesome"..."pioneers". I wonder if that made DB pause....

Disco Boy wrote:
you think that if an artist is earning a living by making music, that it automatically means the music in question is somehow automatically inferior. You see, I'd respect you FAR more if you could actually back your shit up...even if I disagreed with you...

Put on your red shoes and dance the blues.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
you think that if an artist is earning a living by making music, that it automatically means the music in question is somehow automatically inferior. You see, I'd respect you FAR more if you could actually back your shit up...even if I disagreed with you...

Put on your red shoes and dance the blues.


So you're saying that Let's Dance is automatically inferior? Look, just because Bowie started making blatantly commercial music in the mid-'80s doesn't mean that automatically destroys his legacy. Especially since the main reason why was because throughout the '70s, BOTH his managers (Tony DeFries & Michael Lippman) ripped him off to the point where he wasn't that rich. Really. And he actually wanted to make a lot of $$$ for the first time in his life. Big fucking deal. If he continued making super-commercial music well into the '90s and beyond, I'd probably agree that that would tarnish is legacy. But the mid-'80s was just a phase of his otherwise illustrious & innovative career. I might get flamed for 10 pages by stating this, but I actually like most of Let's Dance and Never Let Me Down. However, Tonight sucks donkey's balls, apart from the track, Loving The Alien - which is a great tune and video as well...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:08 pm 
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I agree with you there DB. I quite enjoy Let's Dance and Never Let Me Down (with Frampton on guitar) while Tonight was truly unfortunate. Geez, I think Never Let Me Down might have been the last new Bowie album I ever bought except for those Tin Machine albums which really weren't that good.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
I might get flamed for 10 pages by stating this, but I actually like most of Let's Dance and Never Let Me Down.
'never let me down' is not even mentioned on the david bowie website anymore...

why? because it's his worst album ever. so there.

and, I'm a big fan of bowie... I like let's dance too.

(tonight not so much. except for loving the alien).

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:23 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I might get flamed for 10 pages by stating this, but I actually like most of Let's Dance and Never Let Me Down.
'never let me down' is not even mentioned on the david bowie website anymore...

why? because it's his worst album ever. so there.

and, I'm a big fan of bowie... I like let's dance too.

(tonight not so much. except for loving the alien).


Oh, c'mon. His worst album ever has to be 1967's David Bowie - for Come and Buy My Toys alone! :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:58 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
'never let me down' is not even mentioned on the david bowie website anymore...

why? because it's his worst album ever. so there.

Caputh wrote:
Oh, c'mon. His worst album ever has to be 1967's David Bowie - for Come and Buy My Toys alone! :wink:
well, yeah, you're right, of course. 8)

and, after looking around some more on the bowie website, I have to admit that never let me down is actually on there, with track listing and everything.
it's not mentioned in the about section, though.

my bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:06 pm 
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25 Years Ago: Adrian Belew Releases ‘Mr. Music Head’by Jeff Giles April 28, 2014 5:26 PM

By the late ’80s, Adrian Belew had compiled an incredible list of credits that included stints with Frank Zappa, King Crimson, and the Talking Heads. His greatest success, however, lay just ahead — and it would come courtesy of his solo career
Although he’d already released a handful of records on his own, starting with 1982′s ‘Lone Rhino,’ Belew’s attention during the ’80s was divided between solo albums and his work with Crimson and another band, the Bears, with whom he recorded a pair of LPs released in 1987 and ’88. Although he wasn’t exactly a household name, he was consistently in demand — and considering that just a decade earlier he’d despaired of ever making a living with his musical gifts, Belew seemed more than happy to forsake solo stardom in the name of long-term success.

Saying he got his big break from Zappa “out of the blue when I was at my lowest point and was thinking that maybe I won’t have a place in the music business,” Belew later recalled, “I really was a starving artist, as they call them. Frank called me and asked me if I could audition. He had heard me play in a little nightclub and then months went by and he never called, so I figured it was just a fluke. Then one day, he suddenly called again. It changed my life on a dime.

“It put me into hyper-professional mode, where I suddenly had to play catch-up,” continued Belew. “I had to be in a touring band, playing Frank Zappa’s music, going around the world. Can you imagine that? From being in a band where you are playing to 15 bikers swilling beer in Nashville to being onstage with a hugely complex operation called Frank Zappa.”

And that was only the beginning. “It seemed from that point on that all the dots fell into place. Brian Eno heard me and he called David Bowie and he asked me to play with him, and the Talking Heads hear me with Bowie and they ask me to play with them, and then Robert Fripp hears me along the way — and he asks me to form the new King Crimson with him. It was just head-spinning for me. I had no idea what to do. I was there, hanging on tight.”

It’s fitting that all those opportunities were head-spinning for Belew, because the sounds he managed to coax from his guitar had an equally discombobulating effect on his growing cadre of listeners. Although he certainly understood how to lay back in the service of a good pop song, Belew was also known for using his instrument in decidedly unorthodox — and virtuosic — ways. Not bad for a Kentucky kid who started out on drums and only picked up the guitar after being bedridden with mononucleosis.

“I was brought up on pop music, Motown, the Beatles — and I loved all of that. That was the stuff you heard on the radio,” Belew told Something Else!. “At the same time, I always had an interest in odd things, movies soundtracks and Stravinsky, things that had nothing to do with rock. When I graduated into being a guitar player, I tried to give myself a real broad education. I learned how to fingerpick from Chet Atkins records, learned how to play blues and jazz — all while listening to the current rock stuff, like Jeff Beck. Then, I tried to forget it all. OK, I can sound like all of these guys. What do I do that’s my own?”

The answer to that last question often ended up being too quirky or esoteric for mainstream listeners, and when he started working on what would become his fourth album, 1989′s ‘Mr. Music Head,’ Belew didn’t even have a solo contract. As he confessed in a later interview, the songs he’d initially written for the project didn’t seem likely to change that situation; in his words, “Most people thought ‘this is a little bizarre, Adrian. … I don’t know how you’re even gonna get a record deal.’”

The song that changed everything — and ultimately brought Belew his 15 minutes of solo fame — was a bright three-minute pop number titled ‘Oh Daddy,’ which sits a sweet vocal duet between Belew and his then-10-year-old daughter against a stomping piano line and bright slabs of borderline skronky guitar. “It’s very unusual because it’s almost like two different records,” he pointed out. “The first side — this is back when they had sides — is all pop songs, and the second side is a whole different sound. I actually did the second side first, and then began what turned out to be the first side. So it was about seven songs before I had this little novelty song called ‘Oh Daddy.’ And that’s actually what got me a record deal. No one was the least bit interested in the material that I had until suddenly ‘Oh Daddy’ appeared on the scene.”

Although he dismissed it as a novelty song, ‘Oh Daddy’ was also catchy as all get-out, and it took a fresh approach to describing the rock-star life by positioning the musician as a put-upon dad forced to deal with constant questions from kids who want to know when he’s going to sell a million records and buy a big Cadillac.

“That really was just something fun to do with my daughter. I didn’t think it would even be on the record,” he admitted in a separate talk with Something Else!. “I was doing the rest of what become ‘Mr. Music Head,’ and I brought her in thinking this would be fun … There was a guy there that came through who was a producer for Atlantic Records. He heard it and fell in love. He didn’t hear any of the other stuff, but he was ready to sign me. My whole career with Atlantic was based on that song, something that I didn’t think I would put out anyway.”

The song came with a fairly adorable video that enjoyed medium rotation at MTV and helped turn the track into a hit on Billboard’s Modern Rock chart, and its success helped fuel the next phase of Belew’s solo career, which included a stint as musical director on David Bowie’s 1990 Sound+Vision tour. That in turn led to Bowie making a pair of appearances on Belew’s next record, 1990′s ‘Young Lions,’ both eventual Modern Rock hits. Much as he might have appreciated the increased attention, however, Belew wasn’t in any rush to achieve pop stardom.

“I was never keen to do the MTV thing,” he told Something Else!. “I always felt the music should stand on its own. I didn’t want to dance around like everybody else was doing. ‘Oh Daddy’ did something; it got us into the Top 40. For a while, it was played a lot — but you only get a few weeks of window time. In this case, I’m thankful. It was a novelty. I’m glad I wasn’t saddled with it.”

Belew’s association with Atlantic Records ended with 1992′s ‘Inner Revolution,’ but he’s continued recording steadily over the years, both on his own and with an ever-more-impressive list of collaborators that includes Bela Fleck, Nine Inch Nails, and Ryuichi Sakamoto. And as he went on to tell Something Else!, while his moment in the Top 40 spotlight might be decades in the past, he remains just as creatively invigorated as ever.

“I’m still writing songs like a kid,” he enthused. “Despite the lack of commercial success, I love the music I’ve made. I’m very happy with all of the music and all of the collaborations. I still have all of that in front of me. I feel like I could do this forever.”

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Adrian's recently been here in Los Angeles.
He showed up at the Baked Potato's Monday jazz jam and performed City Of Tiny Lights with Pete Griffin, Jamie Kime and Danny Carey on drums. No youtube yet.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:21 am 
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No disrespect implied for downer mydnyte, but I find it weird that Bowie is dismissed as lacking in artistic integrity. Bowie in the late seventies achieved a lot of critical acclaim, thus a lot of respect for the Berlin-period music he was releasing at the time. Arguably, some 1970s era hipsters must've been pretty pissed off when FZ went from making albums like Uncle Meat or Weasels into making slick comedy music albums like Fillmore East or Over-Nite Sensation. The latter was dismissed at the time as a sell-out, simply because it had songs like "Dinah Moe Humm" on it which didn't quite fit into many people's perception of Zappa as a weird and wonderful art-rocker. Sheik Yerbouti was simply another album in this "slick comedy music" vein, coming as it was after FZ' ill-fated Läther ambitions, scattered over a series of ill-fated albums. Hipsters today would say Lodger or Heroes would be a classic album, but Sheik Yerbouti isn't. Go figure. It's not so black and white. Arguably, while Zappa may have been more of a musician's musician and Bowie a pop-star for some, for others, Bowie was a great art-popster at the time whilst Zappa was a guy making stupid jokes and way off the critics' tickboxes ever since disbanding the original MOI. Your mileage may and does vary.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I find it weird that Bowie is dismissed as lacking in artistic integrity.


Let me clear that up. I did not intend to judge Bowie's artistic integrity. I have no right. I respect him. I was initially expressing how much "better" Zappa is/was than Bowie. I went on from there to complain about Bowie's musical contributions in general but acknowledged his ability to surround himself with great players. Low sounds cool but not so much the stuff that Bowie is actually performing himself. Kinda like the (new can of worms...)Becker/Fagen syndrome only not as extreme.

Young Americans is my idea of a really horrible song. In case you're wondering.


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