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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:39 am 
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Well, i know that Napoleon Murphy Brock was supposed to be on the 1988 tour, but because of his use of some CHEMICAL ENLIGHTMENT, FZ decided to do otherwise...<br><br>I'm not really sure he's fired though...<br><br>I believe Napoleon played a couple of the very first 1988 concerts, but was soon out of the tour...<br><br>Maybe some of the other, older guys know a little bit more about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 9:35 am 
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[quote author=AbnucealEmukaah83 link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=0#1 date=05/14/03 at 03:39:24]Well, i know that Napoleon Murphy Brock was supposed to be on the 1988 tour, but because of his use of some CHEMICAL ENLIGHTMENT, FZ decided to do otherwise...<br><br>I'm not really sure he's fired though...<br><br>I believe Napoleon played a couple of the very first 1988 concerts, but was soon out of the tour...<br><br>Maybe some of the other, older guys know a little bit more about this.[/quote]<br><br><br>That was the '84 band...<br><br><br>== Frank Zappa's Band Jul - Dec 1984 == <br>FZ, Ike Willis, Ray White, Scott Thunes, Chad Wackerman, Alan Zavod, Bobby Martin, Napoleon Murphy Brock (Jul. 17 - Aug 1) <br><br><br>FZ Shows<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:54 pm 
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[quote author=MentalTossFlycoon link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=0#3 date=05/14/03 at 18:10:14]Well, the question of who got fired and why is often sort of a slippery slope. There are usually at least two versions of every story; one of which may or may not be the truth.<br><br>For example, Frank apparently fired Ike Willis shortly after he was hired. I've heard at least three versions of this story - including one where Gail was actually the one who fired him - but whatever the problem was, it was soon ironed out and Ike went on to become one of Frank's main guys.<br><br>Did Frank "fire" Terry Bozzio so he could hire Vinnie Colaiuta; or did Frank just encourage Terry to move on with his life? According to Terry, he and Frank had the "let's talk about your future" talk; but it's unclear whether Frank was saying "I don't need you" or "you don't need me..."<br><br>In other cases, there isn't much question. Elliot Ingber was fired. Jeff Simmons was fired. Lowell George was fired. Tommy Mars was fired (or at least given a time-out) during the Joe's Garage sessions. Napoleon was fired from the '84 tour. Everyone except Thunes and Keneally was fired from the '88 tour.<br><br>I'm sure lots of other people were either fired or simply not asked back.[/quote]<br><br>i've always been curious as to the terry vinnie thing.  i heard, maybe it was on this forum, that at franks house frank put down a peice of music that was impossible, vinnie sat down and played it (not the black page), i guess it had lots of cymbal chokes, etc and terry just huffed threw down his sticks and walked out of the room.  did one of you forumaniacs tell this story??  to me, i always thought vinnie was a better band player, hitting little figures that terry missed.  maybe things like this ended up pushing terry to do what he's doing now like his "solo drumset orchestrations"  which are amazing.  maybe he found he worked better playing by himself than with others.  look at terry's resume compared to vinnie's.   who knows

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 10:19 pm 
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[quote author=Do-Do Mite link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=0#2 date=05/14/03 at 12:35:08]<br><br><br>That was the '84 band...<br><br><br>== Frank Zappa's Band Jul - Dec 1984 == <br>FZ, Ike Willis, Ray White, Scott Thunes, Chad Wackerman, Alan Zavod, Bobby Martin, Napoleon Murphy Brock (Jul. 17 - Aug 1) <br><br><br>FZ Shows<br>[/quote]<br><br>You're correct, thanx for clearing that one out...<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:39 am 
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yah, they can't fix your brakes

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:55 am 
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Regarding Terry Bozzio,<br>The details escape me right now but I thought that Missing Persons was the reason that Bozzio, Bozzio 2, O'Hearn, and Cucarullo left Frank's employment as a group. No?

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 12:27 pm 
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I think Vinnie did get fired over the raise thing.  <br><br>While the orchestral manuevers of Spring 1980 were cancelled, I'm pretty sure FZ did a short European tour with David Logeman on drums.  I have a bootleg of a King Biscuit Flower Hour radio program purportedly from Munich in the Spring of 1980 (Arthur really rips it up on Greasy on it).  I saw an FZ show in April of 1980 in Kansas City with Logeman on drums.  In October of 1980, FZ came to Tulsa, OK, but with Vinnie on drums.  It looks like it was a fired and rehired thing.<br><br>VCF

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 1:46 pm 
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Quote:
I have read the story in The Real Frank Zappa Book, about how Colaiuta (and Jeff Berlin) went behind Zappa's back sometime during 1980, trying to raise their pay for a short European tour (being set up to finance a concert in Amsterdam, Holland, of some of Zappa's orchestral works). When Zappa found out about this, he cancelled the tour (and later on, the whole project was cancelled, but that's another story...) <br>So, did Colaiuta get fired for this, or did he just quit?
<br><br><br>The project was shit-canned....<br><br><br>No project = no band.<br><br><br><br>
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While the orchestral manuevers of Spring 1980 were cancelled, I'm pretty sure FZ did a short European tour with David Logeman on drums.  I have a bootleg of a King Biscuit Flower Hour radio program purportedly from Munich in the Spring of 1980 (Arthur really rips it up on Greasy on it).  I saw an FZ show in April of 1980 in Kansas City with Logeman on drums.  In October of 1980, FZ came to Tulsa, OK, but with Vinnie on drums.  It looks like it was a fired and rehired thing.
<br><br><br><br>Logeman played in the band from March to July 1980 due to some sort of conflict with Vinnie (seems like I remember something about Vinnie not wanting to tour Europe, but that could be erroneous)..... Vinnie was hired back on for the short October through December 1980 tour...<br><br><br>But that's all a different time frame than the incident with Vinnie and Jeff Berlin trying to weasel more money for the European "orchestral support" tour.<br><br>The correct time frame for that would be spring of '81.<br><br>By the time Frank put another touring band together (fall of '81) Chad Wackerman was hired to fill the drum spot, and Scott Thunes was hired to fill the Bass spot.<br><br><br>So.... between cancelling the European orchestral project and hiring a different drummer for the next touring band.... Vinnie no longer worked for Frank.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 2:58 pm 
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ps....<br><br><br>Just ran across a post on AFF-Z made by Arthur Barrow (commenting on Logeman replacing Vinnie in 1980), wherein he states:<br><br>"Vinnie did not get fired. He quit the band a few weeks before the tour to record a Yellow Payges album."<br><br><br>Link to post

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 5:42 am 
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Ricky Lancelloti (sp?) was fired in the 70's as was Kin Vassy - both singers


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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:05 am 
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These are all interesting stories. I'd like to hear more, if only in the interest of cultural anthropology. But re the "Jeff Simmons was smoking too much pot and so was fired" comment: Didn't Simmons quit, allegedly after a reading of the 2OO MOTELS script--which incorporated numerous things JS actually said behind Zappa's back verbatim, based on surreptious hotel-room recordings? I seem to recall numerous references to "Jeff quit the group" in songs and interviews. This is the version told in the 200 MOTELS cd booklet; the dialog-only cut on PLAYGROUND PSYCHOTICS entitled "Jeff Quits the Group" backs up this version. Of course, JS probably WAS smoking too much pot ala "Dental Hygiene Dilemma"--that would explain the stupidity of his comments. <br>Also: the version I heard about the '88 tour was that Zappa cancelled it because A it was losing money B everyone else in the band (except FZ) hated Scott Tunes--allegedly because a his "disrespect" for Zappa's music (highly unlikely) or b Tunes' arcane sexual proclivities(which were nobody's business if he could play bass, which he could. ) Any comments/questions/ answers? Dedman Telnotlalz<br>


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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:47 am 
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Thanks Jimmie D. It's always a RASHAMON situation, with us as the mediums attempting to channel the dead(Man I'm deep).  At least we've got the music, which survives all this petty personal shit. Lord knows FZ earned his role as Taskmaster. Dedman Telnotalz.


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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 1:54 pm 
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[quote author=MentalTossFlycoon link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=15#16 date=05/16/03 at 22:30:22]<br>Right. I think Arthur's actually talking about the first time Vinnie left. [/quote]<br><br><br>Yep... that's what I was trying to point out.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:03 pm 
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[quote author=Dedman_Telnotalz link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=15#17 date=05/17/03 at 05:05:11]But re the "Jeff Simmons was smoking too much pot and so was fired" comment: Didn't Simmons quit, allegedly after a reading of the 2OO MOTELS script--which incorporated numerous things JS actually said behind Zappa's back verbatim, based on surreptious hotel-room recordings? [/quote]<br><br><br>That was Jeff's 1st time in the band...<br><br>I think the original poster was talking about his 2nd time in the band... June-July '74.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:36 am 
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Thanks for the further info. Not that it matters but(why am I asking then?) I always got the impression that Zappa didn't give a flying f what his band players did IN THEIR OWN TIME as long as it DIDN'T AFFECT THEIR WORK. I can't imagine Zappa employing roadies as tour-narcs, making  bassists and drummers pee into little cups whenever the whim struck him, or any of that crap. Then, I'm not a musician--but I'm guessing that the rigors of a Zappa tour and the demanding nature of his music would be impossible for even a casual user to survive. Excellence as its own urine test? Dedman Telnotalz


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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 8:57 pm 
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[quote author=LumpyGravy link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=0#6 date=05/15/03 at 11:31:38]What about Vinnie Colaiuta?<br>Did he get fired, or did he quit?<br><br>In 1992, FZ said this about him: "[Vinnie Colaiuta] is a truly unique individual. Attitude is a prime commodity in music today, but this is one of the guys who invented attitude".<br><br>I have read the story in The Real Frank Zappa Book, about how Colaiuta (and Jeff Berlin) went behind Zappa's back sometime during 1980, trying to raise their pay for a short European tour (being set up to finance a concert in Amsterdam, Holland, of some of Zappa's orchestral works). When Zappa found out about this, he cancelled the tour (and later on, the whole project was cancelled, but that's another story...)<br>So, did Colaiuta get fired for this, or did he just quit?[/quote]<br><br>According to Modern Drummer Magazine's Interview with Vinnie...Vinnie left Zappa's band because he could not get a raise...He then started playing for some FOX TV show.....Logeman joined the band for a short period...Then Vinnie was allowed to rejoin the band at a later point...Perhaps Vinnie realized that Frank's music is the bomb...So perhaps he missed playing in Zappa's band. Hence he ASKS Frank to come back.Put yourself in  his shoes , Would'nt you all get bored of playing for some TV show after doing a stint with Zappa?<br>After all much respect to David Logeman but Vinnie is whole different bag....

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 Post subject: re: fired band members?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:11 pm 
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[quote author=mtf link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=0#3 date=05/14/03 at 18:10:14]...In other cases, there isn't much question. Elliot Ingber was fired....[/quote]<br>[table][tr][td]from the new miles book zappa:[/td][td][quote author=collins link=board=legends;num=1052838067;start=15#25 date=.]ray collins remembers one night elliot was trying to tune his guitar and the amplifier wasn't turned on; <br><br>
Quote:
frank looked over at him, looked over at me, looked over at the amplifier and i knew right then that was the last of elliot ingber in the band
[/quote][/td][td][left];D[/left][/td][/tr][/table]

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 Post subject: Re: Fired Band Members?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:13 am 
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Regarding Jeff Berlin, for those that haven't heard him<br>play, let me tell you that he KICKS ASS !!!<br><br>About Jeff Simmons leaving the second time, there was<br>a rumor that he was annoying to Ruth....


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