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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:23 pm 
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By the way, I'm sure FZ was a smart dude enough to realize that for all of his bold and out-rageous statements, there inevitably was a price to pay. As illustrated in the "How famous was FZ" thread, there are loads of folks who could be into FZ' music, but some of his most questionable statements serve to turn off, and this is exemplified by every woman who thinks statements like "ladies you can be an asshole too" are being plain in-sensitive. Inevitably, while trying to get a message through, he also had to take into account a potential risk of alienating too many people. but seeing as he was of the mentality that liked to make fun at the expense of EVERYONE, i don't think he cared. I admire Zappa's anti-politically correct stance, but rabid anti-PC can be just as rancid as rabid PC.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:36 pm 
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When faced with the "You like Zappa?" question, my usual answer is "I don't know, I've never met him. However, I do like the bulk of his music."
I certainly don't agree with every single thing he's said, or done, but then, as he once said to a woman in a restaurant (who had expressed her dislike), "That's O.K. We need people like you for contrast."

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:16 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
...this is exemplified by every woman who thinks statements like "ladies you can be an asshole too" are being plain in-sensitive.


Only closed-minded people would think that; people that Frank had no interest in catering to by being politically correct. Frank was open-minded and I would venture to say that most of his fans are open-minded also.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
By the way, I'm sure FZ was a smart dude enough to realize that for all of his bold and out-rageous statements, there inevitably was a price to pay. As illustrated in the "How famous was FZ" thread, there are loads of folks who could be into FZ' music, but some of his most questionable statements serve to turn off, and this is exemplified by every woman who thinks statements like "ladies you can be an asshole too" are being plain in-sensitive. Inevitably, while trying to get a message through, he also had to take into account a potential risk of alienating too many people. but seeing as he was of the mentality that liked to make fun at the expense of EVERYONE, i don't think he cared. I admire Zappa's anti-politically correct stance, but rabid anti-PC can be just as rancid as rabid PC.


so, what's your point? where are you going with this?

when it comes to zappa and 'politically correct', there ain't no such thing. he was way above shit like that.
it wasn't even in his vocabulary.

"price to pay"? yeah, sure, and I happen to think that he did care.
that's why he made his "bold and out-rageous statements" in the first place.

and, no, he did not "like to make fun at the expense of EVERYONE."
that's just another media bullshit misconception.

and, why can't "ladies be an asshole too"?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:50 pm 
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Aybe this is a bunch of great stuff you bring up. and Lumpy's right here
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"price to pay"? yeah, sure, and I happen to think that he did care.
that's why he made his "bold and out-rageous statements" in the first place.


It seems Frank Zappa was an equal opportunity offender to people who wanted to be offended. didn't he say that somewhere?? He said many times publicly that he didn't care what people thought of what he was doing or saying. But I think it also comes from his avowed stance w/r/t time. That it was always the present and that the future as a consequence, could always change . . . :idea:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive. Too bad really because the song itself is quite catchy but i can't agree with its lyrical content.


I don't understand how you would get the impression that he is 'attacking' people who work at gas stations.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:40 pm 
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enggo_pah wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive. Too bad really because the song itself is quite catchy but i can't agree with its lyrical content.


I don't understand how you would get the impression that he is 'attacking' people who work at gas stations.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :?


In addition, I would like to say that I believe FZ viewed songs as social documentary, but it is a mistake to think that that means 'generalized social documentary' or critique. FZ songs convey specific things about specific people and events. If some of those people worked at gas stations and failed to secure their future with education, that's no reason to assume that the commentary track is applicable to all gas station workers who failed to secure better futures.
Have you ever written a song dealing with something specific and then tried to read it in a generalized way? Where do you get off reading that far into someone else's lyrics with an assumption?
I can only, At the moment, think of poor lyrics that are generalized.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:20 pm 
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    You oughta know now all your education
    Won't help you know how, you're gonna . . .

    Wind up workin' in a gas station

This has nothing to do with having a go at people who haven't secured their future with education. This is saying that you will Wind up workin' in a gas station in spite of your education which is something completely different.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:08 am 
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polydigm wrote:
    You oughta know now all your education
    Won't help you know how, you're gonna . . .

    Wind up workin' in a gas station


it's no-how i think.
suppose it works both ways though, nice pun.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:59 am 
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timm0 wrote:
polydigm wrote:
    You oughta know now all your education
    Won't help you know how, you're gonna . . .

    Wind up workin' in a gas station


it's no-how i think.
suppose it works both ways though, nice pun.

I originally thought it was "know how" as in your education won't help you "realise" you'll end up working in a gas station, but it's probably what you've pointed out, as "nohow" is busted english for anyhow and that probably makes more sense, it's just saying your education won't help "anyhow".

In fact that probably nails the point I'm making even more.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:50 am 
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polydigm wrote:
    You oughta know now all your education
    Won't help you know how, you're gonna . . .

    Wind up workin' in a gas station
This has nothing to do with having a go at people who haven't secured their future with education. This is saying that you will Wind up workin' in a gas station in spite of your education which is something completely different.


This is how I always understood it. In fact, it's kind of an reiteration of the earlier declaration of "You get nothing with your high school diploma!" from the Roxy album.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:39 pm 
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timm0 wrote:
polydigm wrote:
    You oughta know now all your education
    Won't help you know how, you're gonna . . .

    Wind up workin' in a gas station


it's no-how i think.
suppose it works both ways though, nice pun.


Yeah, for all talks of Zappa not being a very good lyricist his lyrics were very witty and complex sometimes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:16 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
Yeah, for all talks of Zappa not being a very good lyricist his lyrics were very witty and complex sometimes.


oh yeah. except for the more obvious, "outrageous" ones, zappa's lyrics are surprisingly overlooked in most places.
around here as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:09 am 
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One song that i have got no idea what he's talking about is Excentrifugal Forz.

I've read it might be something to do with this guy, Korla Pandit { http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg0D4tetn1k nice!}, but other than that i dunno!?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:34 am 
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from the book tndopp(poddle play)
it say it is a sci-fi rewrite of"trouble every day"it also recalled the fantasy rocket ship of studio Z:domstic TV sets as portholes on to the world outside,TV sport as the epitome of alienation.post more later how ben watson know that beats me :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:02 am 
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excentrifugal forz is an abstracted trouble every day with genital protagonists.

ill watch him buff that
tiny ruby that he use
he'll straigten up his tuban
and eject a little ooze

besides its poetic images for clitoris and penis,the words are dream like in their sci-fi denial of time:

i'll fine out
how the future is
because that's where he's been

this seems to apply the slogan"the future is female"fucking as
clairvoyancy,orgasam as future-flash-creating the next generation.
freud connected the merchanics of genital sexuality to ice in a
note in his interleaved copy of the 1904edition of
the psychopathology of everyday life.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive.


"this here song might offend you some, if it does it's because you're dumb"

That made me lol, Frank Zappa (according to that song) would think you are dumb.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:32 pm 
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AndrewR wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive.


"this here song might offend you some, if it does it's because you're dumb"

That made me lol, Frank Zappa (according to that song) would think you are dumb.


If you think i'm dumb or whatever, then take this into account: what makes you think this kind of a verse makes it possible for you to evade taking responsibility for your own words and actions? If you say: "Ah if I piss a buncha people off with what I say then this means they're idiots who have failed to understand me" then my response is: "how very convenient of you".

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:47 am 
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Quote:
I also think that the opening line of "Wind Up Working In the Gas Station" became a sort of a catch-all phrase for anyone looking for an excuse to behave like an asshole and the attacks on those who work at the gas station or fail to insure their future even with good university diploma is just insensitive.


As stated before, I really don't think Zappa was making fun of people working at gas stations. I don't think he was making fun of people who aren't educated, too-- I think he was just making fun of schools and diplomas again. Here in America, if you start doing badly in school, everyone around you brings up your future and says 'You know, you'll have to work in a gas station!' (This has recently changed to McDonald's.)

So what Zappa's saying is just a type of reversal--"Even if you go to college, have a 4.0 GPA...that doesn't mean you won't wind up in a gas station."
The "show me your thumb if you're really dumb" line is sarcastic.

I actually think it's sort of Zappa looking back on his own childhood- "That's the way it is where I come from". Apparently, more than a few of his friends worked on cars and other things. And Zappa was obviously familiar with cars of at least that period. I wouldn't be surprised if that criticism hit him apparently.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:25 am 
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cleon wrote:
this seems to apply the slogan"the future is female"fucking as
clairvoyancy,orgasam as future-flash-creating the next generation.
freud connected the merchanics of genital sexuality to ice in a
note in his interleaved copy of the 1904edition of
the psychopathology of everyday life.


lol ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:28 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
If you say: "Ah if I piss a buncha people off with what I say then this means they're idiots who have failed to understand me" then my response is: "how very convenient of you".


that's exactly what frank meant.
pushing people to think 'am i gonna be offended just cos he called me dumb, or am i gonna get what he's on about?'


Last edited by timm0 on Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:27 am 
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FeralCats wrote:
The "show me your thumb if you're really dumb" line is sarcastic.


Slight tangent here.... what does the "thumb" have to do with anything, other than rhyming with "dumb"? Just curious - I've always wondered what that meant.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:11 am 
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so what do you other peoples make of excentrifigal forz ?

just a load of comedy dada puns or is ben watson right and it's about the future of mankind or something ?!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:57 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
If you think i'm dumb or whatever, then take this into account: what makes you think this kind of a verse makes it possible for you to evade taking responsibility for your own words and actions? If you say: "Ah if I piss a buncha people off with what I say then this means they're idiots who have failed to understand me" then my response is: "how very convenient of you".


Yer right, it shoulda been, "this here song might offend you some, if it does then I apologize for being insensitive." :roll: :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:48 am 
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CarvinAbuser wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
If you think i'm dumb or whatever, then take this into account: what makes you think this kind of a verse makes it possible for you to evade taking responsibility for your own words and actions? If you say: "Ah if I piss a buncha people off with what I say then this means they're idiots who have failed to understand me" then my response is: "how very convenient of you".


Yer right, it shoulda been, "this here song might offend you some, if it does then I apologize for being insensitive." :roll: :roll: :roll:


Doesn't rhyme though... How about, "this here song might offend you a tad, if it does then that's my bad."

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