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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:18 am 
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To be honest, I don't really pay much attention to the lyrical content at all, not only with Zappa but with most music I listen to (and my tastes are geared towards mostly instrumental music anyway). I guess not being a native English speaker has something to do with that too, because I have to make an effort to mentally translate the lyrics.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:47 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
To be honest, I don't really pay much attention to the lyrical content at all, not only with Zappa but with most music I listen to (and my tastes are geared towards mostly instrumental music anyway). I guess not being a native English speaker has something to do with that too, because I have to make an effort to mentally translate the lyrics.


If your english is good, it's pretty easy to understand the lyrics, unless of course you meet words the meanings of which are still unknown to you. I'd agree in the sense that some of the FZ references are too obscure, though, so some of FZ' lyrical implications may be lost on non-American listeners.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:55 am 
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It's not that I don't understand the lyrics (except for some really obscure references), but for me it's pretty easy to disregard them because they're not sung in my native language.

And maybe I just don't really care a lot for lyrics at all... an interesting tune with mediocre lyrics is still a good tune to my ears, but a bland composition with 'deep' lyrics doesn't do a thing for me.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 am 
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If your english is good, it's pretty easy to understand the lyrics, unless of course you meet words the meanings of which are still unknown to you. I'd agree in the sense that some of the FZ references are too obscure, though, so some of FZ' lyrical implications may be lost on non-American listeners.


True! Although I like that obscurity!! For me who's not a native English speaker FZ's lyrics do require some studying, but until now I always found it worth the effort to study them. Which shows that he does have something to say with his lyrics!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:14 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:

Very interesting thread thus far.

Question though, by who's standard's are we gauging
whether or not the music transcends the subject matter?


You did notice how i cited "Penis Dimension" for example?

That was one song Frank Zappa performed with the Grand Wazoo orchestra and they did an instrumental version out of it which i rather liked. So maybe that's where the point is: this particular song is so well composed it can stand on its own, without any lyrics added at all.


Yes, I did, but I also noticed that you had "I Promise Not To Cum In Your Mouth" which is an instrumental, so would make it hard to be lyrically objectionable.
Anyway, not a big deal, was just looking for a little clarification
As I think that statement leads to other questions, as in, what is obscene, ect. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:30 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
It's not that I don't understand the lyrics (except for some really obscure references), but for me it's pretty easy to disregard them because they're not sung in my native language.

And maybe I just don't really care a lot for lyrics at all... an interesting tune with mediocre lyrics is still a good tune to my ears, but a bland composition with 'deep' lyrics doesn't do a thing for me.


so Stude, not a Leonard Cohen fan, say?

and btw yer written english is impeccable. I never woulda guessed that you'd rather not pay attention to english lyrics, even tho I know you love jazz and so on. Interesting to me yer take. as a youngster I forced myself to pick apart the lyrics to the rolling stones and pink floyd to try to get a handle on what was supposed to be so rebellious or deep. I loved it to pieces then but now . . .
meh

chattin with the zappateers they drop into other languages often, mostly dutch I've noticed -- I've always wanted to learn it and my studies are heading me in that direction.. Of course I gotta get a dictionary, a grammar, maybe some exercise books or something, but I like a challenge and it seems not so different to me :) :) :) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:38 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Studebaker wrote:
To be honest, I don't really pay much attention to the lyrical content at all, not only with Zappa but with most music I listen to (and my tastes are geared towards mostly instrumental music anyway). I guess not being a native English speaker has something to do with that too, because I have to make an effort to mentally translate the lyrics.


If your english is good, it's pretty easy to understand the lyrics, unless of course you meet words the meanings of which are still unknown to you. I'd agree in the sense that some of the FZ references are too obscure, though, so some of FZ' lyrical implications may be lost on non-American listeners.


Also to people not of the generation. I only recently learnt that a 'brownie' is a camera.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:38 am 
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Brownies?

http://www.girlguiding.org.uk/members/brownies/

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:37 pm 
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Zappa decided to make music in about 6 or 7 or 8 different styles...Sometimes an album would almost be exclusively one or the other-almost... -sometimes there would be a mixture,& sometimes one song or "piece" would be different things...A portion of the humorous stuff doesn't apply anymore, but that doesn't matter- because the music prevails...The lyrics were kind of a twisted reflection of the banal poetry of rockdom of his day... -Forgive me for stating the obvious.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:27 am 
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I read in Ben Watson's "Complete Guide to FZ" that the one song that offended Steve Vai was "We're Turning Again". I suppose he was really turned off by the insensitive remarks about his dead 60s heroes. Doesn't bother me a bit though, I love the tune.

However, there is one song that I just can't rationalize. "Jumbo Go Away" just comes across as mean-spirited and cruel to me. Someone somewhere will have some rationalization, saying it represents what an asshole WOULD say if there WAS a fat groupie following him around, but at some point you gotta stop drawing the line between the artist and the subject matter and ask WHY did he write this song? Is it supposed to be funny? Anyone have any ideas? Just seems so out of character for him.

I'm cool with all the rest of his comedy music though, so don't accuse me of being a Fansthihfjhesayurus or whatever.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:08 am 
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Likewise, as I pointed out above, FZ' satire sometimes is astute. And here's a question: did all FZ' targets deserve ridicule? Was there ever a point when FZ went too far?


i don't think so. I don't feel he was ridiculing them. To me, it's always seemed like he was holding 'em up and saying "look at what i found!". Did Zappa ever comment on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:42 am 
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He's got a lot of styles for different fans!

Me, myself, I love the humor. I found it fascinating that not a lot of people know all the words to every song.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:29 am 
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There's a religious group called "Jews For Jesus"- I not putting them down here.Point of this post is to inform every Christian on this forum that I'm starting a SECULAR fangroup called "Christians For Zappa"-we could discuss how great Zappa's music is,but how we all ignore his lyrics... -That's a joke....Comics to get their 'message' out sometimes go too far- or seemingly so...is it possible to go tastefully too far in comedy? Also I'll say here that Zappa's comedy-music reflected his theatrical side.Personally,I'll never get tired of 'America Drinks' or 'Brown Shoes Don't Make It'- But 'Thing-Fish' or later-period 'political' humor becomes tiresome- maybe due to it thereof being outdated...Like,we all know right-wing politicians &/or New World Order demons are full of it- but how do you get anywhere by endlessly lampooning them? -Or marching in the streets for that matter? (maybe that's what they want). But I digress.God bless America.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:


You know what?

I don't tolerate mediocre or bad music mixed with vulgar lyricism, to tell the truth. I've survived the popularity peak of that dreaded Bloodhound Gang ("The Bad Touch" anyone???) when all the teenagers were brainwashed with that drivel. Likewise, I've heard stuff like "Licensed To Ill" by the Beastie Boys, which is crap compared to their other good albums. It's just so juvenile and lame, ugh and musically not very redeeming either. And Blink 182 has to be one of the worst offenders. It just appeals to the lowest common denominator. As you can see, I've been confronted with some rather grossly stereotypical approaches to politically incorrect popular music and so when FZ makes average three chord pop structured songs and sings about the very subject matter subsequently preferred by any bad alterna-rock group with sexist and macho agenda, then naturally that shit turns me off. Hopefully now you see where I come from.

Likewise, as I pointed out above, FZ' satire sometimes is astute. And here's a question: did all FZ' targets deserve ridicule? Was there ever a point when FZ went too far?


Aybe Sea, doesn't your chin ever get sore? Image

A little levity, man!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:28 pm 
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pigs03 wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:


You know what?

I don't tolerate mediocre or bad music mixed with vulgar lyricism, to tell the truth. I've survived the popularity peak of that dreaded Bloodhound Gang ("The Bad Touch" anyone???) when all the teenagers were brainwashed with that drivel. Likewise, I've heard stuff like "Licensed To Ill" by the Beastie Boys, which is crap compared to their other good albums. It's just so juvenile and lame, ugh and musically not very redeeming either. And Blink 182 has to be one of the worst offenders. It just appeals to the lowest common denominator. As you can see, I've been confronted with some rather grossly stereotypical approaches to politically incorrect popular music and so when FZ makes average three chord pop structured songs and sings about the very subject matter subsequently preferred by any bad alterna-rock group with sexist and macho agenda, then naturally that shit turns me off. Hopefully now you see where I come from.

Likewise, as I pointed out above, FZ' satire sometimes is astute. And here's a question: did all FZ' targets deserve ridicule? Was there ever a point when FZ went too far?


Aybe Sea, doesn't your chin ever get sore? Image

A little levity, man!!!
Really! It was never Zappa's style just simply to string so-called "vulgarities" together only to pack them in tight and stuff them on some shitty, formulaic music.
I wonder if Aybe Sea ever started out liking some FZ things but then turned against them once his English got good and he suddenly knew what the words meant?
That would really just fucking suck dog dick and lap goat twat!

--Bat :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:24 pm 
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Batchain1001 wrote:
Really! It was never Zappa's style just simply to string so-called "vulgarities" together only to pack them in tight and stuff them on some shitty, formulaic music.
I wonder if Aybe Sea ever started out liking some FZ things but then turned against them once his English got good and he suddenly knew what the words meant?
That would really just fucking suck dog dick and lap goat twat!

--Bat :roll:


Great points, Bat. Frank wasn't about vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity as demonstrated by much of today's popular "entertainment".

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:05 pm 
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I like some Bloodhound Gang.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Frank Zappa went to great lengths to be able to say exactly what he wanted to say exactly the way he wanted to say it.

You don't like what he said or how he said it?

Too fucking bad...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:23 am 
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yeah, it's funny. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:53 am 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Frank Zappa went to great lengths to be able to say exactly what he wanted to say exactly the way he wanted to say it.

You don't like what he said or how he said it?

Too fucking bad...


One could argue Pat Robertson has also gone to great lengths to be able to say exactly what he has wanted to say exactly the way he has wanted to say it.

Does that validate any of Robertson's crap?

Not comparing FZ to Robertson of course. Don't even assume that I do. What I do, however, is question your reasoning to justify absolutely every single thing FZ ever said.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:31 pm 
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to me the funniest FZ song is ''Do You Like My Car'' from "fillmore '71''

and I also find ''Billy The Mountain'' ''Bobby Brown'' "Electric Aunt Jemima" "Yellow Snow" "Stink Foot" "Lumpy Gravy" "Dancin' Fool" "Why Does It Hurt When I Pee" "He's SO Gay" "Montana" "Monster Magnet" funny to name a few. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:34 pm 
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chunga'sreturn wrote:
to me the funniest FZ song is ''Do You Like My Car'' from "fillmore '71''

and I also find ''Billy The Mountain'' ''Bobby Brown'' "Electric Aunt Jemima" "Yellow Snow" "Stink Foot" "Lumpy Gravy" "Dancin' Fool" "Why Does It Hurt When I Pee" "He's SO Gay" "Montana" "Monster Magnet" funny to name a few. :)

I like to sing "Camarillo Brillo" at parties...providing they have piano more or less in tune with no keys missing.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:04 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Frank Zappa went to great lengths to be able to say exactly what he wanted to say exactly the way he wanted to say it.

You don't like what he said or how he said it?

Too fucking bad...


One could argue Pat Robertson has also gone to great lengths to be able to say exactly what he has wanted to say exactly the way he has wanted to say it.

Does that validate any of Robertson's crap?

Not comparing FZ to Robertson of course. Don't even assume that I do. What I do, however, is question your reasoning to justify absolutely every single thing FZ ever said.
Not by a long stretch! Robertson sleazed his way to Prime-Time Preacher Prominence and unabashedly advocated the assassination of another country's democratically elected president.

Robertson was welcomed, Zappa was never welcomed.

Does this somehow mean it's OK and respectable to advocate murder as long as you don't use "dirty words" to do it but not OK to use "dirty words" and never advocate murder?

--Bat

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:23 am 
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Well, of course it's better to use dirty words as long as you're not advocating murder.

But I was merely referring to the way you treat Zappa exactly the same way Christian fundies treat Robertson or their favorite fire-and-brimstone preacher. The dude's jus' telling the way it is (read, the way they see the world) man! As Penn and Teller would put it, Zappa is treated like an evangelical asshole* by his more hardline fans.

*Try watching "Penn and Teller Bullshit: Creationism" episode for that matter.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:23 pm 
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By the way, I'm sure FZ was a smart dude enough to realize that for all of his bold and out-rageous statements, there inevitably was a price to pay. As illustrated in the "How famous was FZ" thread, there are loads of folks who could be into FZ' music, but some of his most questionable statements serve to turn off, and this is exemplified by every woman who thinks statements like "ladies you can be an asshole too" are being plain in-sensitive. Inevitably, while trying to get a message through, he also had to take into account a potential risk of alienating too many people. but seeing as he was of the mentality that liked to make fun at the expense of EVERYONE, i don't think he cared. I admire Zappa's anti-politically correct stance, but rabid anti-PC can be just as rancid as rabid PC.

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