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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:51 pm 
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[quote author=FROWNLAND link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#31 date=11/01/05 at 19:46:45]PIB I bet you could get a handsome $300 for that good condition copy of the Guitar one. I've seen tattered ones for $250 on e-bay and people have bought them.[/quote]<br><br>Hot damn!  And I always thought that the Songbook was the one worth money.  I can't remember what I paid for the Guitar Book one but I seem to remember it being under $100 5-6 years back.  Wow - I have a strong suspicion that I will be throwing a reserve priced edition up there soon to see what happens!  I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the thing, but if I can print out the version from zappateers - I have no personal attachment to the original mccoy.  Maybe then I can upgrade some of my studio gear with the earnings....<br><br>Thanks for your help!   ;D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:54 pm 
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And here you guys got me all excited..... here are some examples of it being worth less than $60:<br>[center]<br>http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Frank-Zappa-Guitar-Book_W0QQitemZ7359695823QQcategoryZ38104QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Frank-Zappa-Guitar-Book-transcr-by-Steve-Vai_W0QQitemZ7359445948QQcategoryZ38100QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-FRANK-ZAPPA-GUITAR-BOOK_W0QQitemZ7358188710QQcategoryZ113499QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br> :'(    :'(    :'([/center]

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:59 pm 
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This is quite sickening.<br><br>1. If I were to say I saw you in a comprimising place, and wanted to use that against you, wouldn't I have had to be there too to have seen you?<br><br>2. In order to know so much about zappateers to attempt so lamely to discredit it, you must go through an awful lot of it to get your complaints ready.<br><br>3. He recites various concerts, dates, seeders and such, all of which for one who doesn't supposedly like it, knows about it, use it and so forth, an awful lot.<br><br>4. Not a soul gets a penny from them. People take the time to SHARE the stuff. The only credit involved by putting your name, or nickname to it, is to proclaim you are saying its authentically what you claim it is.<br><br>5. If one of these doom delivering jems, as good ole tredny has implied, left another person at their home believing its from xyz city on xyz date, then he should then discredit 100's of other sites, places like FZShows, Zappa patio and the like for investing phenomenal sums of energy to validate authenticity. If i heard a song, and fz says, welcome to halloween 1977 detroit for example, should I now say trendy is correct, the tape is wrong? <br><br>6. Why, in any way shape or form, would anyone give a flying fuck about this anyway, such as tdenry does. If I download a song, show or all of them, not a soul makes money. If i put a copy of a show up there that I had, I dont make money. If i went into a concert and taped it, without the consent of the owners, they need to deal with me, not the one who got a copy. Its not illegal to have them in your possesion. So if I DID do this, and was the soul source to blame, I taped it illegally, I shared it, the fucking statute of limitations has expired, this is stuff from 1988 and back.<br><br>7. So why the hell does terndy whine. Is it because he can't get them himself? He has a modem, too slow? He said something to someone there and got banned?<br><br>8. So then, it is because this occurs, the Zappa Family Trust is NOT releasing material, because the sales wont compensate the investment. I have touched on this before, and guess who was the only one to reply, good ole tderyn. Complaining, accusing, name-calling and such to the public consumer of these goods are NOT going to fix whatever issue you feel is corrupted beyond belief.<br><br>9. If Frank Zappa, as a musician, artist, performer and owner of a vast catalog of material that could be sold for profit were the only one involved, I would cry about it too. But let me tell ya, every single artist has this same problem. So as I also stated before here, sell it fast and cheap. I can go to Queen's website right now, and download last nights', or a short gap of time, show. Just a few bucks. If I could have seen him in 88 and three days later download it for 4.99 or something, fuck the zappateers, I got the real show in days. File sharing as we know it would not be what we know it as. You would thin by reading the posts here, FZ was the only artist, ever. I would like to think he was one of my favorites, not the best. That is a judgement call based on the listener. Like beauty right? It's in the eye of te beholder. I bet you the Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, U2, Bruce Springsteen, name any more you wanted, and they DO NOT have this problem too right? Go spew your shit on their fan sites a while.<br><br>10. If ZFT started to deliver on their promises, and flood the market with product, I would buy it. I have everything so far. Not all do, so trdney finds he needs to go after zappateers. Who is to blame. Who is at fault. Take away sharing and I bet ZFT would release the entire vault and we would all buy every release in platinum record quantities. Yeah!<br><br>11. Most importantly, why the fuck does trendy care, no one cares what you say anymore. There is a fairy tale called the little boy who cried wolf. You MUST be on the payroll of someone in this mess. And my biggest complaint of all, he cant fucking spell. There is a whole fucking thread on it. Pal, before you click post, READ THE MOTHERFUCKER. I have the hardest time reading it, and even if you actually for once in your miserable fucking life had a valid point, I wouldn't know it because you spelled it wrong. Are you dyslexic? I won't excuse you for that. You know why? Because my sister and I have it. She even failed grades from it. Thankfully I didn't pass it on to my kids, but my sisters kids inherited it. It sucks. Go fill out a job application and spell your own fucking last name wrong. Ive been there. So try this, hi-lite the entire text of your post, copy it, go to a word processor like MS word or whatever, paste it in and SPELL CHECK IT. Then copy it again, bring it here and post it.<br><br>There are a zillion artists, a zillion web-sites, a zillion songs, go find another one to bother. This is a waste of time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:11 pm 
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[quote author=PenguinInBondage link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#33 date=11/01/05 at 19:54:33]And here you guys got me all excited..... here are some examples of it being worth less than $60:<br>[center]<br>http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Frank-Zappa-Guitar-Book_W0QQitemZ7359695823QQcategoryZ38104QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Frank-Zappa-Guitar-Book-transcr-by-Steve-Vai_W0QQitemZ7359445948QQcategoryZ38100QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br>http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-FRANK-ZAPPA-GUITAR-BOOK_W0QQitemZ7358188710QQcategoryZ113499QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem<br><br> :'(    :'(    :'([/center][/quote]<br>I must clarify that Im talking Australian money...thats where im from...sorry shouldve said that earlier. $60 roughly translates to about $130 - $140 here...thats pretty cheap for the book. I have seen it selling for American $130 - $150.<br><br>$60 is very cheap though...must be in bad condition.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:24 pm 
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[quote author=FROWNLAND link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#35 date=11/01/05 at 20:11:56]<br>I must clarify that Im talking Australian money...thats where im from...sorry shouldve said that earlier. $60 roughly translates to about $130 - $140 here...thats pretty cheap for the book. I have seen it selling for American $130 - $150.<br><br>$60 is very cheap though...must be in bad condition.[/quote]<br><br>Ohhhh......  Australian $'s - that makes a LOT more sense!   Thanks for the clarification!   ;D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:27 pm 
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Well I like Zappateers a lot, and I think trendmonger is crazy.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:34 pm 
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[quote author=Arkay link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#38 date=11/01/05 at 21:15:11]In light of finding out how few live shows you have seen, I'm reminded of Christian teenagers who preach about sexual abstinance.  You have made your decision and feel the need to "save" everyone else with your wisdom.  Like the sexually active teenagers, as a FZ live show listener I read your words and can realize how you achieved your point of view, but couldn't possibly sign up for it.<br>I think you really do understand how much FZ you need to hear.  I think that maybe its eating you up inside knowing that there are so many people out there enjoying tapes that would be for you like a Christmas Present.  But rather than lash out about it or "give in" and have a listen, you have applied a moral canvas to the situation, which allows you to be content while not actually being satisfied, again like the Christian teens.[/quote]<br><br>You might be on to something here Arkay...<br><br>Or maybe he actually does have some live tapes, but feel that<br>everyone else are "unworthy" to enjoy them??<br><br>...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:43 pm 
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[quote author=Pachuco link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#39 date=11/01/05 at 21:27:31]Well I like Zappateers a lot, and I think trendmonger is crazy.[/quote]<br><br>A-fuckin-men!   ;D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:42 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Or then again, maybe he had 100's of tapes but smoked them all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:21 pm 
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Tendmonger,<br><br>You are proving to be a very negative element at the Zappa forum.<br><br> >:(<br><br>(original comments excised)

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 Post subject: re: polish nerd
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:48 pm 
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[table][tr][td][quote author=idiot bastardson link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=30#40 date=11/01/05 at 21:34:12]<br>You might be on to something here Arkay...<br><br>Or maybe he actually does have some live tapes, <br>but feel that everyone else are "unworthy" to enjoy them?? ...[/quote]<br>[/td][td]<br>sounds like a jimmy swaggert complex <br>[center]Image[/center]<br>[center]repent 'n redeem[/center][/td][/tr][/table]<br><br><br><br><br>

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:26 am 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=45#47 date=11/03/05 at 08:40:33]Image[/quote]<br>God his shirts even brown. ::)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:28 am 
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Folks much of what you say about why I have my opinions on the matter is not true. It's very good that people are thinking about the topic but some of the coments that users are making of me is not only way off base but extremly childish.<br><br>Maybe this is a way to attack me for my opinion on trading unofficial UADs. <br><br>A kinder and gentler Zappateers would not act in such a manner but I am starting to learn that some of these Zappateers not only trade in Unauthorized AUDs but also act well outside teh boundaries of what the Zappateers About Document attempts to define.<br><br>Come on this one voice who has an opinion is just trying to make people think about another viewpoint on trading unauthorized recordings.<br><br>So what do we get, <br>Most of it is a childish backlash. <br>Soem attempts for some to uderstand what they think I am talking about...........<br>Hey take it for what it is. <br>Beleive what you want to beleive but if you beleive in downloading unnoficial AUDs your best be is to do it and say why it is so nifty. And some are doing it. <br>And some are just well. Invovled in what seems is some personal vendetta.<br><br>If indeed teh Zapapteers find my opinions as an attack the best defense would be to stick to your guns on your policies instead of resorting to a 4th grade behavior.<br><br>If someone enjoys listening to to Unnoficial AUDs I am not here to say they should not be enjoying them.<br><br>Enjoy the hundres of unoficcial AUDs all you want. Listen to all these Unnoficial AUDs to the point where it is permanently implanted in every emotion you ahve for all I care.<br><br>And by no means am I sitting here wishing I could indulge in the practice of downloading and listening in the manner in which it is portrayed.<br><br>Hey I dabbled I tried a few. It just don't feel right to me.<br><br>If it is so worthy the Zapapteers should contact Gail Zappa and see if she wants to create some AUD Library.<br><br>Maybe all the time and energy could be put to good use. <br><br>Maybe you can get it all Authorized but fro now it is Unofficial.<br><br>I'll be the first to join the listening sessions.  <br><br>It is more important for me to keep the integrity of Official product. I am not saying i'll never listen to an Unauthorizes product it's just not something to take to an extreme for me. <br><br>The intergrity that I speak about is defined not by my standards and as much as I poot forth I must admitt that this is only my opinion.<br><br>The relationship I have with any given artist is something that I respect. I could go on and speak more about specific items, who what when why and where and what I know is planned but it would not be fair.<br>Let it be cryptic. Let it make you thionk about what you are doing. Do you really think Resolver and Brutality belongs out there for free trade? I don't know I just used that as an example.<br><br>Example: 1)<br>Start Up The Video He's watching it and he's using a Chicken To Measure It.<br><br>I mean if Dweezil Zappa had said to me Gary go ahead create a Grapevine for that video you took of my band doing G Spot Tornado would I share it with the community? Yes,  Of coarse I would. I would be happy to but that particular item is something that was documented for my personal use. I ensured Dweezil it would not be released or traded in any form. I have held up to that bargain for close to 15 years on that item. <br><br>Example 2:)<br>Shuts video and starts several Warren Cuccurullo Demos to Playing In Tongues<br><br>I'm listening to several Warrren Cuccurulo demos at this moment. Warren gave them to me personally. It is understood very clearly that this is for my personal use.<br>It should not and will not be shared, released or traded in any form. I hold up to that batgain.<br><br>Example # 3)<br>I am not saying who what when why or where. there are things out at Zappateers that should not be made for free trading as defined in Zappateers. As much as   <br>everyone may think all of this is O.K. there are specific items that do not belong there.<br><br>


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:40 am 
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[quote author=Trendmonger link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=45#49 date=11/03/05 at 09:28:41]<br>Example: 1)<br>Start Up The Video He's watching it and he's using a Chicken To Measure It.<br><br>I mean if Dweezil Zappa had said to me Gary go ahead create a Grapevine for that video you took of my band doing G Spot Tornado would I share it with the community? Yes,  Of coarse I would. I would be happy to but that particular item is something that was documented for my personal use. I ensured Dweezil it would not be released or traded in any form. I have held up to that bargain for close to 15 years on that item. <br><br>Example 2:)<br>Shuts video and starts several Warren Cuccurullo Demos to Playing In Tongues<br><br>I'm listening to several Warrren Cuccurulo demos at this moment. Warren gave them to me personally. It is understood very clearly that this is for my personal use.<br>It should not and will not be shared, released or traded in any form. I hold up to that batgain.<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>I don't think these examples are relevant or valid. If you've been asked not to trade something given to you by the artist, or promised that you wouldn't, then there would be a betrayal of trust involved. Yet, we have seen that FZ didn't mind people taping shows, as long as people didn't profit from it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:53 am 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=45#53 date=11/03/05 at 09:42:36]<br><br>THEN SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY AND LEAVE US ALONE!!! If you want to participate.... awesome!! If you don't, then it's your loss and now just stay the fuck out of it, Columbo!!<br><br><br>Would you rather some douchebag in Europe press it and sell it as a bootleg?? SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>JAYP you make a point that seems to continualy pop up for the reason of freely trading unofficial AUDs.<br><br>We need to beat the Bootleggers.<br><br>What if Gail decides to Officially release all 800 AUDs tomorow.<br><br>Are you going to fork over the money.<br><br><br>Are you going to ensure every JAYPfunk AUD is permanently removed from the global internet community?<br><br>Why does Zapapteers make AUDs available where official representation of audio or video exists?<br><br>JAYP cut the 4th grade crap allready. What are you so afraid of an alternative opinion?<br><br>What are you afraid of?<br><br>Opinion<br>Bootleggers<br>Lawsuits<br>Zappateers being shut down<br>Having to drop the JAYPFUNK naming convention on a seed.<br><br>Come on guy i'm not trying to attack you personally.<br><br>It just happens to be that your seed is used as an example on seeding convetions on a Zapapteers FAQ.<br><br>If you beleive in what you beleive you should stand tall and just beleive in what you beleive.<br><br>Modifying my picture in that manner is cause to bring you to court on several charges but hey I can handle a joke dude. Have you seen me reply with the childish manner. I don't think so I'mjust trying to put out an alternative opinion. It's a topic. The topic has little life as compared to that of the so called Grapevine that came out of the cave.<br><br><br>BTW have you found The Automat Glove<br><br>Also how do you like The Dub Room Special DVD?<br><br>Can't we argue this controversy intelligently without acting like 4th graders.<br>


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:22 am 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=45#55 date=11/03/05 at 10:12:28]<br><br>You are so fucking brainwashed man.<br><br>You are attacking something I find fun for me. I enjoy ALL ASPECTS of Frank's music and will continue to seek it out in whatever way I can. It's a hobby and I enjoy it so I will defend it!!!<br><br>I happen to hate and think that grown men who participate in Fantasy Football Teams are the most retarded people on the planet!! But do I go on to the Fantasy Football Web Sites and start bashing it??? No!! I let the idiots get gay with each other all they want!! I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!!<br>You should do the same in this situation.<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>JAYP I enjoy all aspect of Frank's work too. I am just trying to have people look and question the artistic integrity of the level that which unnoficial trading has grown too. I know a portion of that behavior is not appreciated by the artist.<br><br>As I have said there very well could be a positive spin technology with all the efforts it's just the magnitude of the unnoficial invlolvement tha makes me question it.<br><br>Dude stand tall. While it took a bold drastic statement for me to make my point in your case it is not not necessary to do do. Many people think like you on this subject. Thousands. I am just trying to make those thousands of people think about it a little. Shake The Tree. It makes sense for you to defend your policies in an adult manner if they are true and sincere. Me my opinion is out there in left field. Far from the norm.<br><br>Ike Willis and Andre Chomondeley while having some drastic viewpoint on some key Zappa issues with me are able to discuss things like adults.   <br><br>I am not expecting an official comment on bit torrenting. I am not writing this for any brownie points or whatever many people think. The relationships that I ahve with higher authorities are what they are. I am just trying to make people think about what they are doing.<br><br>Dude you have the 700 unnoficial AUDs or whatever.<br>Enjoy em man. I guess you know the difference between an official product an unnoficial one.<br><br>I would have assumed you would finacialy support all official product but at times I have wondered about that. <br>    <br><br>For a guy that has the official catalouge and 700 unnoficial AUDs I puzzles me why you are crying so much. you think you'd ba a happy guy by now with a day job at The Utility Mufin Research Kitchen.<br>I sincerely suggest that you find an icing anointment utensil gif. It's so much more becoming of your wonderful knowledge.<br>


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:39 am 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=45#58 date=11/03/05 at 10:34:45]<br><br>ME? Not buy official product? You're fucking with the state bird of New Jersey mother fucker!!<br>My Zappa collection of memrobilia including EVERYTHING is massive. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING!!![/quote]<br><br>Who was the user around here badmouthing The Dub Room Special DVD release stating they would not buy it. that they had it on VHS. Calling it a rehash?<br><br>Put out a post of 50 lines of rehash?<br><br><br><br>


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:29 am 
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I think I can see Trendmonger's point here, but I don't happen to agree with its validity. You know, as great as FZ was, there are certain things about which he was just plain wrong. If you read The Real Frank Zappa book, he says that something like 80% of his guitar solos were basically crappy. Anybody here agree with him on that one? :D<br>He also was against live taping, from what I've read, because at that time people were literally paying for bootlegs of any show they could get. What Frank never recognized was that it's okay to trade copies of live recordings on a not-for-profit basis. With the advent of CDs and file sharing, that has become extremely easy. You send me a CD of Miles Davis, I send you one of John Coltrane. Total cost: 50 cents for the CD, plus postage. Total money taken out of the artist's pocket: zero.<br>The band Wilco had an instructive experience with streaming unreleased content when their Yankee Hotel Foxtrot album was leaked on the internet prior to its release. The band chose to stream the album from their own website so people could get it for free. The talking heads all said, "This will hurt sales," but the hype actually helped: when the CD was finally released, it sold 400,000 copies, making it Wilco's biggest seller. Wilco still have a policy that it's okay to tape their shows, and it hasn't hurt them one bit. The fanatics still buy all the official releases. If FZ were still around, he could have learned a valuable lesson from them.<br>The fact is, FZ was a relentless perfectionist who wanted to control his listeners' experience. In doing so, he often failed to deliver optimum versions of songs, because he was frustrated by his bandmembers' very real limitations, and so he would endlessly dick around with overdubs and splicing songs together from different tapes. But some of us like humanness, and have no problem hearing a show with Frank or Ike or Ruth making mistakes...everybody makes them occasionally, and it doesn't really detract from an otherwise excellent performance. Frank must have thought it did, though. I think he was wrong, and I don't see any problem with people trading whatever is out there, as long as you already support (or have supported) the ZFT by purchasing the official releases too.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:55 pm 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=concerts;num=1130865933;start=60#64 date=11/09/05 at 10:27:16]JAYPFUNK'S POLISHED TURD OF THE DAY<br><br>J.P.T.O.T.D.<br><br>NP:<br>06/11/1980 #1 - Paris, France - FM Broadcast<br><br>AWESOME solos on this one!! The Chunga solo is tearing the paint off my walls!!!!![/quote]<br>Haha this thread is turning into everything TRENDY didnt want it to be... ;D


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