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 Post subject: Determination
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:37 am 
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To All:

Thank you you you comments and suggestions. I have decided to go ahead with publication because I can't wait. I sent a letter t my publisher today, but of course, like the lawyers at Berger Kahn, they are out of the office until Jan, 3rd. It seems that everybody takes holidays but me. Here's a copy of my letter:


Quote:
Dear _____:

Issues regarding quoting copyrighted material has come to my attention. What concerned me was the recent legal troubles that a number of Frank Zappa fan web sites- in both this country and abroad- have been having with the Zappa Family Trust. The lawyers for Gail Zappa (his widow) have been serving cease and desist papers to many organizations devoted to Frank Zappa.

I have a number of short Frank Zappa quotes in my book "Mea Saurus" that I am almost entirely certain fall under FAIR USE. All of them are duly notated and redundant proper credit is given to the original author, not only for Zappa, but for every other source quoted. However, just in case, I emailed both Gail Zappa and her lawyers at Berger Kahn with my permissions request and am waiting for a reply.

Fair Use is a gray legal area. From my readings about it I have found that the shorter the quote of copyrighted material, the better. All my Zappa quotes are short snippets of song lyrics and printed statements. I don't believe they can be shortened without damaging the content of my book. I believe that each constitutes fair use in any case. The people being served by Zappa's lawyers are appropriating huge amounts of copyrighted material and publishing them on web sites. That's not what I'm doing so I think I'm okay. Anybody there at Rose Dog Books have any further legal advise for me regarding this?

As you may know, my use of all the material is included in my personal confession. It is used as part of self-criticism and I specifically state how the material affected me personally. I believe that, in good faith, I have not stolen intellectual property from these other authors and artists, by giving them, not me, the credit for their statements.

However, one quote in Mea Saurus from another source began to bother me. The quote in question is a rather lengthy one from the 1970 Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship album Blows Against the Empire. After careful consideration, I think it's too long and only part of it is essential to my confession. I redacted approximately 14 lines, marked in red on the proof copy you recently sent me. I'll pay for it. I'm doing this just to be on the safe side. The proof copy is being sent back to you now.

Ultimately, I don't even know if a "print on demand" publication is considered a commercial endeavor for the author. I am paying for this out of pocket, and as your literature states, most of your authors never recoup their investment money in book sales. Certainly, I don't expect to get rich from publishing my personal thoughts. I can't afford to wait or make any further changes. I must publish. Unless you foresee any other problems, please print my Book!

Robert R. Mehling




So there you have it people. I WILL PUBLISH NOW. I will also continue to seek permission from Gail and her lawyers. If, for any weird reason I am denied permission, I will retain a lawyer and fight it, claiming "fair use in good faith." From what I have read, I have a case.

Thanks, have a happy new year, wish me luck- and uh... check out my book "Mea Saurus, An Artist's Confessions" by Robert Mehling in 2008. Even though you may have to sludge through a whole lotta religious crap, you may get a kick out of bits and pieces of it. [img]lot/Users/robertmehling/Desktop/Measaurus.jpg[/img][/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:10 pm 
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Good luck Mea Saurus! I think it'll be ok. Congrats on your book!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:46 pm 
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Or at least you can say, 'Well, there was a whole thread about it on your forum, discussing it....how did it get past you?"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Good for you MeaSaurus, and good luck with your book! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Determination
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:42 am 
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MeaSaurus wrote:
To All:

Thank you you you comments and suggestions. I have decided to go ahead with publication because I can't wait. I sent a letter t my publisher today, but of course, like the lawyers at Berger Kahn, they are out of the office until Jan, 3rd. It seems that everybody takes holidays but me. Here's a copy of my letter:


Quote:
Dear _____:

Issues regarding quoting copyrighted material has come to my attention. What concerned me was the recent legal troubles that a number of Frank Zappa fan web sites- in both this country and abroad- have been having with the Zappa Family Trust. The lawyers for Gail Zappa (his widow) have been serving cease and desist papers to many organizations devoted to Frank Zappa.

I have a number of short Frank Zappa quotes in my book "Mea Saurus" that I am almost entirely certain fall under FAIR USE. All of them are duly notated and redundant proper credit is given to the original author, not only for Zappa, but for every other source quoted. However, just in case, I emailed both Gail Zappa and her lawyers at Berger Kahn with my permissions request and am waiting for a reply.

Fair Use is a gray legal area. From my readings about it I have found that the shorter the quote of copyrighted material, the better. All my Zappa quotes are short snippets of song lyrics and printed statements. I don't believe they can be shortened without damaging the content of my book. I believe that each constitutes fair use in any case. The people being served by Zappa's lawyers are appropriating huge amounts of copyrighted material and publishing them on web sites. That's not what I'm doing so I think I'm okay. Anybody there at Rose Dog Books have any further legal advise for me regarding this?

As you may know, my use of all the material is included in my personal confession. It is used as part of self-criticism and I specifically state how the material affected me personally. I believe that, in good faith, I have not stolen intellectual property from these other authors and artists, by giving them, not me, the credit for their statements.

However, one quote in Mea Saurus from another source began to bother me. The quote in question is a rather lengthy one from the 1970 Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship album Blows Against the Empire. After careful consideration, I think it's too long and only part of it is essential to my confession. I redacted approximately 14 lines, marked in red on the proof copy you recently sent me. I'll pay for it. I'm doing this just to be on the safe side. The proof copy is being sent back to you now.

Ultimately, I don't even know if a "print on demand" publication is considered a commercial endeavor for the author. I am paying for this out of pocket, and as your literature states, most of your authors never recoup their investment money in book sales. Certainly, I don't expect to get rich from publishing my personal thoughts. I can't afford to wait or make any further changes. I must publish. Unless you foresee any other problems, please print my Book!

Robert R. Mehling




So there you have it people. I WILL PUBLISH NOW. I will also continue to seek permission from Gail and her lawyers. If, for any weird reason I am denied permission, I will retain a lawyer and fight it, claiming "fair use in good faith." From what I have read, I have a case.

Thanks, have a happy new year, wish me luck- and uh... check out my book "Mea Saurus, An Artist's Confessions" by Robert Mehling in 2008. Even though you may have to sludge through a whole lotta religious crap, you may get a kick out of bits and pieces of it. [img]lot/Users/robertmehling/Desktop/Measaurus.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I think there are members of our forum who would be interested in the religious/philosophical issues (me for one) if only in the direction of a critique. Glad you decided to go ahead with it. Hope it does well. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:42 pm 
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Good luck with your book Mea Saurus and best wishes for 2008 :wink:


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 Post subject: Follow up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:22 am 
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It's me, Robert Mehling, again. I have a copy of my book in hand. It is now published (March 2008). Even though I believe that my few quotes are "fair use", I asked for copyright permission anyhow from both Gail Zappa and her law firm, but they never replied. I think they ignored me because they figure that my book will probably not be a commercial success. I'm too small a fish to fry. But who knows?

My book isn't about Zappa. It's about my struggle to believe in my religion and the afterlife. It includes Zappa as one of my influences growing up. If anyone reading this is interested in my book, it will be available in about a week (March 10) from Rose Dog Books <http://rosedogbooks-store.stores.yahoo.net/nsearch.html> It's a paperback titled "Mea Saurus, An Artist's Confessions" priced at $18.00. The confessions part details my early sex life and former drug use. I think there is an option to buy an online version for less. It may make interesting reading.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:47 am 
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Congratulations! I think the fact that you have documented an effort to get permission should show that you've done due diligence.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:04 am 
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Your paintings are interesting, who gives a fuck about your sex life and what drugs you took.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:10 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Your paintings are interesting, who gives a fuck about your sex life and what drugs you took.

One never gets to old to learn from others' experiences.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:39 am 
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HJ wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Your paintings are interesting, who gives a fuck about your sex life and what drugs you took.

One never gets to old to learn from others' experiences.

Unless, of course, one is more mature than all the others.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:43 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
Let's hope you don't get one of these from Gail.
Poor slob just wanted to record his own version of Chunga's Revenge for his website.

Image


No, he wanted to record it to post and make it available to download free. No like freeloaders.

But thanks for thinking of me.

Music is the Best!

gz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:10 am 
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I have never understood the problems many seem to have with Gail.
Many, many years ago while I was writing my PhD thesis in theoretical physics I thought it would be extremely appropriate to qoute a few lines from the Them or Us book namely:

"Physics, like all science, is burdened with
paradoxes and contradictions which have
traditionally been 'resolved' by theories
designed to provide a temporary 'illusion
of solution'.
Physics only sort-of works.
Everything only sort-of works."

The character Herzberg

So, I simply wrote a nice letter to Gail and asked for permission. I was a little late so I kindly asked for a quick response. A few days later Gail called me and told me it was OK. We talked for another ten minutes and she really couldn't have been nicer.


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 Post subject: Music is the Best!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:18 am 
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gz wrote:
.....thanks for thinking of me.

Music is the Best!

gz

I think of you just about every day, Gail.
Although "thanks" are unnecessary, I'll still imagine that you give one to me each time I think of you.

Image

.....jimmie & gail sittin' in a tree..... :wink:

I guess, now, any "Joe Blow" can sign up for the forum. 8)
Why do I feel as though I'm at a fake FEMA press conference? :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:30 pm 
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hey Gail,, where's Mikey,,??
this forum is falling to pieces,,,,

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if you knew suzie, like I know suzie, oh, oh, oh what a creamcheese,,,,


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 am 
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Posts: 4237
Joe Blow wrote:
I have never understood the problems many seem to have with Gail.
Many, many years ago while I was writing my PhD thesis in theoretical physics I thought it would be extremely appropriate to qoute a few lines from the Them or Us book namely:

"Physics, like all science, is burdened with
paradoxes and contradictions which have
traditionally been 'resolved' by theories
designed to provide a temporary 'illusion
of solution'.
Physics only sort-of works.
Everything only sort-of works."

The character Herzberg

So, I simply wrote a nice letter to Gail and asked for permission. I was a little late so I kindly asked for a quick response. A few days later Gail called me and told me it was OK. We talked for another ten minutes and she really couldn't have been nicer.


Cool! Dweezil is posting on the Forum!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:19 am 
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edyrukidng wrote:
hey Gail,, where's Mikey,,??
this forum is falling to pieces,,,,


I never noticed that Mikey did much forum moderation. His skills far exceed a full time moderator job. Considering the large amount of misrepresentation and childhood adolescent behavior a full time moderator would need to be on the payroll to eliminate the feces and or minimally make sure topics are kept within the proper scope of each area.

Never mind how a given topic goes off topic so many forum members blatantly create topics in forum areas where the topic they create has nothing to do with the defined scope of the topic area is intended for.

In general I think Gail lets us have our fun here on the Zappa.com NG but the real meat and potatoes of Zappa.com is the website itself and not the NG where childhood adolescence runs amok.


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 Post subject: Re: Music is the Best!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:32 am 
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[quote="jimmie d killed the forum"]
I guess, now, any "Joe Blow" can sign up for the forum. 8)
Why do I feel as though I'm at a fake FEMA press conference? :roll:[/quote]

Yes, Mr jimmy d, that was my first post on this forum. I have, however, for many years followed this forum from a very safe distance. If you are offended by that "anyone can sign up" let me tell you that I have lived and breathed FZs music for over forty years and in all attended 82 concerts. Previously I didn't post for the very simple reason that you so blatantly show - most of the post are silly one-liners and thus often embarrassingly juvenile. If you and most others have bothered to learn more about Frank and his music you wouldn’t have aired your silly opinions and assorted bullshit.

As this thread deals with copyright issues let me remind you all that Frank stated numerous of times that he would prefer his music not to be played at all over being played incorrectly. Further, he certainly did not want anyone else to make money of anything to which he owned the rights. Nor did he want it to be used in a way of which he did not like. I am sure he asked, and/or expect, Gail to continue to protect his artistic treasure in this fashion to the very best of her judgement. The rest of us may not like this policy but that is most likely the way Frank would have liked it. So, when you whine and cry over why not more live concerts are being made available in this or that format please remember that Frank most likely would not have released it without many hours of pasting and cutting in order to take the compositions to a level he believed they deserve. That being said, let me make it perfectly clear that no one, and I mean no one, would love to see more live concerts released than I do. So, Gail, I beg you, pleaeeeeeeese........;)


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 Post subject: Re: Music is the Best!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:50 am 
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Joe Blow wrote:
...Previously I didn't post for the very simple reason that you so blatantly show - most of the post are silly one-liners and thus often embarrassingly juvenile...

That's quite alright, Joe. I'm not at all embarressed to be juvenile.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:46 pm 
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gz wrote:
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
Let's hope you don't get one of these from Gail.
Poor slob just wanted to record his own version of Chunga's Revenge for his website.

No, he wanted to record it to post and make it available to download free. No like freeloaders.

But thanks for thinking of me.

Music is the Best!

gz

Okay Gail, what I don't get here is that you come into a thread in which a guy is desperately trying to make contact with you and completely ignore him just to answer a post that you didn't like.

Caveat: I agree with the point you made, but it still seems pretty rude to me that you were bothered enough to read the thread and take umbrage about something but not bothered enough to acknowledge someone trying to pay the appropriate respect.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:30 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Okay Gail, what I don't get here is that you come into a thread in which a guy is desperately trying to make contact with you and completely ignore him just to answer a post that you didn't like.

I suppose that answering him directly in a forum may have unexpected legal consequences.
In order to avoid this, such tasks are left to law office professionals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:04 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
gz wrote:
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
Let's hope you don't get one of these from Gail.
Poor slob just wanted to record his own version of Chunga's Revenge for his website.

No, he wanted to record it to post and make it available to download free. No like freeloaders.

But thanks for thinking of me.

Music is the Best!

gz

Okay Gail, what I don't get here is that you come into a thread in which a guy is desperately trying to make contact with you and completely ignore him just to answer a post that you didn't like.

Caveat: I agree with the point you made, but it still seems pretty rude to me that you were bothered enough to read the thread and take umbrage about something but not bothered enough to acknowledge someone trying to pay the appropriate respect.


I read Gail's commentary factually and since it was made in a public forum it is intended for all to comprehend as to how and why on getting permission.

Gail's comments make total sense but somehow I can smell jimmy's beard.

it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
I read Gail's commentary factually and since it was made in a public forum it is intended for all to comprehend as to how and why on getting permission.

In what way does Gails post above explain how?

Trendmonger wrote:
Gail's comments make total sense but somehow I can smell jimmy's beard.

it

What does this mean?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:01 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Gail's comments make total sense but somehow I can smell jimmy's beard.
it

What does this mean?

Love?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:09 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Gail's comments make total sense but somehow I can smell jimmy's beard.
it

What does this mean?

Love?

I nearly puked when I read that!!

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