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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:07 am 
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R. J. Matson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am 
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BBP wrote:



The Ancient Alien Theorem has predicted this kind of find would be made, also there are over 80,000 additional un-deciphered ancient cuneiform tablets that have yet to be deciphered world wide... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
BBP wrote:
New M.C. Escher found!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:01 pm 
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German region to hand out iodine over Belgium nuclear fears
Last updated 07:27, September 2 2017

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VINCENT KESSLER / REUTERS
The Tihange nuclear power station is one of the two large-scale nuclear power plants in Belgium.

A German border region is preparing to hand out potassium iodide tablets to residents who want them in case of an accident at a nuclear power plant in Belgium that has caused friction between the two countries.

Local officials in the Aachen area received permission from the regional government to distribute the tablets as a precaution amid longstanding concerns in Germany over the safety of the Tihange plant, less than 70 kilometres away.

They're meant to prevent thyroid cancer in case of radioactive contamination.

From Friday through November 15, people under 46 can apply online for a coupon for the iodine tablets, which they can pick up free at no not *SPAM* p h a r m a c i e s they can pick up free tablets at p h a r m a c i e s

Germany plans to switch off all its nuclear reactors by 2022 and already has shut its oldest plants.

"For more than two years we've been worried about the reactor cracks getting bigger - the population has been very worried," said Rita Klösges, acting spokesperson for the Aachen municipality.

"We had talks repeatedly with Belgium about this. But we didn't get them to shut down the reactors," she told the BBC.

Belgium plans to shut down Doel 3 in 2022, Tihange 2 in 2023, and the other five in 2025.

- AP

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/96 ... lear-fears

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:47 am 
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Same goes for parts of The Netherlands.

Since it hasn't made the national news because it's not in Amsterdam, we had a cat-like drug criminal living in the neighborhood. Half a year ago he was shot at in front of his house, he was badly injured but pulled through. It was scary because there are 3 primary schools in the vicinity, one on the same street.
It wasn't his first attack - local newspaper counted at least 6. He'd taken to wearing bullet-proof vests.

Yesterday he was finally shot dead in front of his new house one town over.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:52 am 
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This positive story shows that not all Nazis are irredeemable...
"I was a neo-Nazi. Then I fell in love with a black woman"
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40779377

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Left for dead on a US highway

The Kiwi runner left for dead: 'I tried to get up but my pelvis was smashed'
BRAD FLAHIVE
Last updated 14:37, September 2nd 2017

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ABC6/SCREENGRAB
It will take six months before Nick Ashill is able to walk again.

Left for dead on a remote US highway, Kiwi ultra-runner Nick Ashill​ looked down at his body "smashed up with bones sticking out" and cried out for help.

Despite being on a different continent, his wife Sarah was the first to respond - he could hear her voice coming from the phone which had been thrown from his backpack after a pick-up truck had deliberately run him down.

Nick was running across the US for charity on August 2, and while on a call to his wife and daughters on holiday in Cyprus, he noticed a dark-coloured ute hurtling straight towards him.

"There was no wobbling or deviation from the white line of the shoulder," said Nick. "This individual knew what they were doing, and I really struggle with that when play it through my mind."

As he realised the ute was gunning directly for him, he tried to throw himself over a small fence but the ute struck him, throwing him high into the air.

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SUPPLIED
The impact left Nick with severe injuries - including a smashed pelvis, compound fracture to his right femur and bowel perforation.

The 53-year-old landed in a ditch, his right leg and pelvis taking the full impact of his fall. "I remember looking at my leg and it was smashed up with bones sticking out," he said.

"Although my phone was thrown from my pack, it was still on and I heard Sarah."

He had run a massive 3949km in 81 days to raise money for pulmonary fibrosis, and was only 922km from the finish line.

His wife and two youngest daughters were due to join him and their eldest daughter Emily - who was part of his support crew - in New York to watch him complete his goal of 5400km.

They would often talk hands-free on Skype while he was running - his phone strapped to his Camel backpack so his family could see what was around him.

As the horror unfolded that morning Sarah could only see grass as the phone rolled along the ground.

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ABC6/SCREENGRAB
Sarah Ashill is asking for the motorist who hit her husband to turn themselves in.

"I just somehow clicked into gear while the two children standing beside me were hysterical," said Sarah.

"I tried to work out where the blood was coming from, and I actually said to him 'I'm concerned you're going to bleed out while you are talking to me so lets deal with it'."

Nick can remember Sarah asking him questions which kept him conscious through the intense pain.

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SUPPLIED
Nick and Sarah are keen runners, seen here on the 50km Eco Trail in Paris.

"But after a time the pain left and I felt very, very tranquil, I think I was starting to lose consciousness," Nick said.

"Then I realised that I have got to get out of this ditch. There's nobody to help me and I need to get on the road so I'm visible."

But as he tried to move his hopes were quickly dashed. "I realised my pelvis was completely smashed so I couldn't lift myself up," he said from his hospital bed in the US.

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SUPPLIED
Nick and Sarah (right) with their four daughters before he embarked on the mammoth charity run across the US.

"I just lay there and I can recall crying for help again. It felt like within a couple of minutes I heard the voices and footsteps of the local patrol guys.

"That was an incredible feeling, knowing that I had been found. It's hard to describe."

The couple, originally from Wellington, are adamant had they not been on the phone, it would have been a different outcome.

It was the combined efforts of Sarah and daughter Emily who between them liaised with local troopers to track down his location.

"I think the one question that saved him was when we asked 'have you seen any aeroplanes today?', he said no."

That meant the troopers could figure out where was in relation to where he started, she said.

"My call cut out at 46 minutes, and they found him five or six minutes after that."

It took Sarah 35 hours on four connecting flights to reach Nick at the hospital in Columbus, Ohio.

"He was in critical condition when I left. I think some people go to pieces in a crisis and some people get cold and collected, and I'm one of them - then fall apart afterwards," she said.

That moment came for Sarah weeks later after doctors found an infection in Nick's left leg which had spread to his scrotum and belly.

"When they rushed him to surgery I didn't know what they were going to find when they opened him up," said Sarah who trained as a nurse in the emergency service response unit.

"That really got me knowing that I might lose him all over again. I locked myself in one of the bathrooms at the hospital and rang my girlfriend in Golden Bay, and balled my eyes out to her."

Through an "amazing level of expertise" the surgeons managed to put Nick back together, and he will be joined by his two youngest daughters on Sunday.

Despite being in hospital for a month their insurance company has yet to confirm if it will cover the costs, which have already escalated to over $500,000.

It will take six months before Nick is able to walk again, and will require intensive rehab. The family currently live in Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates, but they are yet to decide where they will be based next.

"Not knowing whether we were going to be covered and have some money, or whether we are going to be struggling for the rest of our lives is really hard," said Sarah.

"We will have a family conference once everyone is here - it's going to change our lives for now."

A relative has set up a Give a Little page (https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/getting ... konhisfeet) to raise money for Nick's ongoing treatment.

Police are yet to arrest anyone in relation to the hit and run, but have told the family they believe the vehicle involved was a 1992 to 1998 dark-coloured Chevrolet or GMC ute.

"What's hard for me right now is knowing this jerk is still out there on the road, and I wonder if it's happened before," said Nick.

"I play it through my mind every day. I'm here because of Sarah, the credit has to go to her, she was amazing."

- Stuff

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/ ... as-smashed

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:57 am 
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North Korea nuclear bomb quake

New Zealand condems North Korea's hydrogen bomb test
Last updated 20:38, September 3rd 2017

North Korea appears to have conducted a sixth nuclear test, the South Korea's Yonhap News Agency says, just hours after Pyongyang claimed to have developed a powerful hydrogen bomb.

Today's nuclear test by North Korea has been condemned as utterly deplorable by Foreign Minister Gerry Brownlee.

North Korea confirmed on Sunday it had successfully conducted testing a hydrogen bomb meant for intercontinental ballistic missile.

The move is a direct challenge to US President Donald Trump, who hours earlier had talked by phone with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe about the "escalating" nuclear crisis in the region.

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Previous earthquakes near North Korea have been the result of nuclear tests.

​Brownlee said today's test was "a highly dangerous affront to the entire international community.

"North Korea has again demonstrated its complete disregard for its obligations under United Nations Security Council resolutions, and for international norms against nuclear testing.

"North Korea has a choice. It can continue on this path, inviting further pressure and isolation and entrenching poverty and misery for its own people. Or it can choose membership of the international community and the security and prosperity that comes with it. Only North Korea can make this decision."

A significant earthquake's been registered near North Korea's nuclear site, raising fears it has carried out its sixth test. Only hours earlier, the regime published photos of Kim Jong-Un inspecting an apparent homemade hydrogen bomb.

Brownlee said New Zealand would consider what measures it could take in response to the situation.

Sunday's test is the country's sixth and most powerful nuclear test, thought it is the first since Donald Trump took office.

The hydrogen bomb test ordered by leader Kim Jong Un was a "perfect success" and was a "meaningful" step in completing the country's nuclear weapons programme, state television said.

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TONG/TNS
Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are on the verge of a large-scale conflict", warns Vladimir Putin.

China's Foreign Ministry on Sunday urged North Korea to stop its "wrong" actions, after Pyongyang said it successfully tested an advanced hydrogen bomb.

The ministry said in a statement on its website that China resolutely opposed and strongly condemned North Korea's actions, and urged the country to respect UN Security Council resolutions.

Japanese and South Korean meteorological officials said an earthquake detected near the North's test site - measured by the US Geological Survey (USGS) at magnitude 6.3 - was around 10 times more powerful than previous detonations.

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KEVIN LAMARQUE
US President Donald Trump is in the midst of dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey. Now he also may have to worry about North Korea conducting its sixth nuclear test, the first since he took office.

Japan immediately raised the prospect of further sanctions against the isolated North, with Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga saying that curbs on its oil trade would be on the table.

A US official who studies North Korea's military and politics said that seismic data on the tremors was being analysed, although the location suggested another nuclear test.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said it was too early to determine if a test, if there was one, supported the North's claim that has succeeded in developing a thermonuclear weapon, "much less one that could be mounted on an ICBM and re-enter Earth's atmosphere without burning up".

The hydrogen bomb report by North Korea's official KCNA news agency comes amid heightened regional tension following Pyongyang's two tests of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) in July that potentially could fly about 10,000 km, putting many parts of the mainland United States within range.

Under third-generation leader Kim Jong Un, North Korea has been pursuing a nuclear device small and light enough to fit on a long-range ballistic missile, without affecting its range and making it capable of surviving re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere.

One expert said the size of Sunday's detonation meant it was possible it could be a hydrogen bomb test.

"The power is 10 or 20 times or even more than previous ones," Said Kune Y. Suh, a nuclear engineering professor at Seoul National University. "That scale is to the level where anyone can say a hydrogen bomb test."

HOURGLASS-SHAPED DEVICE

Kim Jong Un, who visited the country's nuclear weapons institute, "watched an H-bomb to be loaded into new ICBM" and "set forth tasks to be fulfilled in the research into nukes," KCNA said.

Pictures released by the agency showed Kim inspecting a silver-coloured, hourglass-shaped warhead in the visit accompanied by nuclear scientists.

The shape shows a marked difference from pictures of the ball-shaped device North Korea released in March last year, and appears to indicate the appearance of a two-stage thermonuclear weapon, or a hydrogen bomb, said Lee Choon-geun, senior research fellow at state-run Science and Technology Policy Institute.

"The pictures show a more complete form of a possible hydrogen bomb, with a primary fission bomb and a secondary fusion stage connected together in an hourglass shape," Lee said.

Tensions on the Korean peninsula have been high since last month when North Korea threatened to launch missiles into the sea near the strategically located US Pacific territory of Guam after Trump said Pyongyang would face "fire and fury" if it threatened the United States.

North Korea further raised regional tensions on Tuesday by launching an intermediate-range ballistic missile over Japan, drawing international condemnation.

Trump and Abe spoke by phone and said that in face of an "escalating" situation with North Korea that close cooperation between their countries and with South Korea was needed, Abe told reporters.

The United States has repeatedly urged China, the North's sole major ally, to do more to rein in its neighbour.

Impoverished North Korea and the rich, democratic South are technically still at war because their 1950-53 conflict ended in a truce, not a peace treaty. The North regularly threatens to destroy the South and its main ally, the United States.

- Stuff, agencies

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9645 ... clear-test

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:05 am 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
German region to hand out iodine over Belgium nuclear fears
Last updated 07:27, September 2 2017

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VINCENT KESSLER / REUTERS

Germany plans to switch off all its nuclear reactors by 2022 and already has shut its oldest plants.



This has been an interesting topic to me.

Germany is shutting down, smart people.

The US has about 100 reactors, and most have overloaded spent fuel pools, up to 4 times overloaded past design, and no-where to go with the spent fuel.

The pools are far far more dangerous than the reactors as the pools have far more fuel in them, have no backup cooling, and have no containment.

We got a good lesson at fukushima in pool fire contamination, a lesson that is still unfolding, and those pools were not overloaded as US pools are.

Fukushima is right on the ocean too, and the lion's share of the airborne contamination blew off over the ocean...this won't happen at most of the US reactor sites...if Indian Point were fukushima, there would be 20 million people dying of cancer and other related telomere shortening diseases, and the New York City area would be uninhabitable.

Indian point is also the most dangerous reactor site as rated by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission due to it's location on fault lines.

Yet the 20 million people who are in peril are kept dumbed down and distracted so they do not call their representatives and demand shutdown, or even nationwide shutdown as Germany did.

Because I worked in the industry I was very interested when the fukushima reactors blew up.

For two weeks as the disaster worsened there was 24/7 coverage of the disaster, 45 minutes of coverage out of every hour on all cable "news" channels.

People saw it, and were talking about it big time.

GE (maker of the reactors), saw it's stock drop 11% in the days following the accident.

So overnight, just as the giant hydrogen explosions started occurring, the news blackout occurred, from 24/7 coverage, 45 minutes out of every hour on all cable "news" channels to NOTHING.

All cable propaganda channels dropped all fukishima coverage overnight on the same night.

Now THAT's propaganda control.

Ans Americans didn't notice, they stopped talking about fukishima and moved on to whatever distractions the rich wanted them talking about.

This is also why Americans vote for constant increases in bombing of innocent peoples, they don't see it on TV, so they keep killing thousands of civilians.

This is also why Americans don't have health care. HR676 Medicare for all is kept off the news, and instead the D & R plans that donate hundreds of billions each year to the unnecessary health insurance companies are kept on the news and Americans fight about which screw job is better, completely oblivious to the fact that they could all be covered, far better coverage, for far less money...just don't let Americans find out about HR676 and keep donating hundreds of billions of health care dollars a year to the hyper-rich.

It's what happens when the lesser evils control the vote, and the rich control the lesser evils.

Since the rich own and control the TV, which in turn leverages american apathy to control American thought, then it's my opinion that Americans deserve nothing, they deserve to keep donating most of their hard earned dollars to the hyper rich. It's my hope that if the apathy does not change, then the american economy will collapse so the bombing will stop.

I'd rather see the apathy stop, but selfishness is powerful, so I have my doubts that anybody is going to start calling their representatives soon.

Perhaps after the next inevitable economy collapse, people will become interested enough to overcome their apathy and find out what's happening to them...the jury is out on that question.

...or perhaps Indian point will spew its guts out all over New York City and they'll be 20 million less apathetics on the planet. Hell, if they don't care if they get contaminated, why should I?* (And yes, I have called my representatives multiple times about this, HR676, and the evil US bombing...there are not enough people calling yet).

Here's a pretty good article on overloaded US reactors:

Image
(If the water drops a little and uncovers the hot elements, there will be a spent fuel fire, criticality, and meltdown, and a monster area of land will be contaminated as there is no containment and no way do stop it).

US stores spent nuclear fuel rods at 4 times pool capacity

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Here's a youtube I made on the subject

* Perhaps the only reason to care is alot of them have children who are not yet old enough to be guilty of apathy, and it's mass murdering.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:32 am 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EXCELLENT post, Baddy.

I'm not as big a fan of Merkel as my wife is, but I think Merkel's reaction to Fukishima was the correct one i.e. if not even the Japanese can cope with nuclear power, what's the point in anyone else trying?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:13 pm 
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baddy wrote:
Since the rich own and control the TV, which in turn leverages american apathy to control American thought, then it's my opinion that Americans deserve nothing, they deserve to keep donating most of their hard earned dollars to the hyper rich.


How could you forget to point out that these "rich" folks also control the representatives who you are telling people to call. Phone calls to representatives is an old game.

Perhaps if you had less to lose you'd be more apathetic. You want property and all of your material stuff but you don't want war. There's a conflict. Others have been systematically kept from obtaining these things while you have not. Yet you want peace. You want peace AND you want to own property. How will you peacefully protect your property against those who come to forcibly take it away from you?

baddy wrote:
Because I worked in the industry

Ah. So you're to blame.

Is working in the industry how you "earned" your chunk of property? If that's the case then everyone in the meltdown zone should come seize your land.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:20 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
baddy wrote:
Since the rich own and control the TV, which in turn leverages american apathy to control American thought, then it's my opinion that Americans deserve nothing, they deserve to keep donating most of their hard earned dollars to the hyper rich.


How could you forget to point out that these "rich" folks also control the representatives who you are telling people to call. Phone calls to representatives is an old game.

Perhaps if you had less to lose you'd be more apathetic. You want property and all of your material stuff but you don't want war. There's a conflict. Others have been systematically kept from obtaining these things while you have not. Yet you want peace. You want peace AND you want to own property. How will you peacefully protect your property against those who come to forcibly take it away from you?

baddy wrote:
Because I worked in the industry

Ah. So you're to blame.

Is working in the industry how you "earned" your chunk of property? If that's the case then everyone in the meltdown zone should come seize your land.


I can sell ya some nice property at Coober Pedy going cheap :P
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https://www.domain.com.au/lot-1113-wilson-road-coober-pedy-sa-5723-2011523829


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:58 am 
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Caputh wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EXCELLENT post, Baddy.

I'm not as big a fan of Merkel as my wife is, but I think Merkel's reaction to Fukishima was the correct one i.e. if not even the Japanese can cope with nuclear power, what's the point in anyone else trying?


Thanks Caputh, it's pretty amazing what Americans will roll over for. Ralph Nader once said, "American's can have anything they want, the only thing is they don't seem to want anything."

Thanks downer for the nice personal attack, I'm sure the whole forum benefited from your input :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Last night, J.D. Martinez of the Arizona Diamondbacks became the 18th player in the history of Major League Baseball to hit four home runs in a game.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Cameron Smith will join record-holder Darren Lockyer on 355 NRL games this weekend.
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/league/a/36907735/smiths-brains-behind-record-nrl-streak/


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:20 pm 
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JD was a fan favorite and had a nice run with Detroit. Was such a dependable hitting force in tough situations along with Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez, great fielder too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Milton Bradley wrote:
JD was a fan favorite and had a nice run with Detroit. Was such a dependable hitting force in tough situations along with Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez, great fielder too.


Oh no! Miguel, Martinez.....POTUS Trump will be deporting these guys any day now..... :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Keeping our fingers crossed for Irma...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:18 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Keeping our fingers crossed for Irma...


It's looking really bad.....

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:23 am 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
BBP wrote:
Keeping our fingers crossed for Irma...


It's looking really bad.....


My daughter has just moved to San Domingo (Dominican Republic), so the fact that a natural catastrophe is coming is kinda normal. Remember last april when she landed in NZ (EarthQuake)....Or last year when she arrived in Shanghai (Typhoon)....or four years ago when she started university in Canada (coldest winter of the century).....

Hopefully this monster will pass well north of her.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:38 am 
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It's genuinely not looking good for the isles down there...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:33 am 
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Milton Bradley wrote:
JD was a fan favorite and had a nice run with Detroit. Was such a dependable hitting force in tough situations along with Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez, great fielder too.


Yep, and now Verlander's out. Trading away all their top players. Then we have the Lions, overpaying Stafford and they're sucking again this year. The Lions are like the team who always play against the Harlem Globe Trotters. Of course Red Wings have the new Little Ceasars Arena. Hopefully they do better than last year, but Kid Rock being the first event held there is sure to stink up the place with trump spoo. Haven't paid attention to the Pistons since the "Bad Boys" days and don't follow Michigan/Michigan State college sports except for maybe a finals game because that's what everybody else is watching here.


Michigan, our state is a shit show now. West Michigan isn't too bad of you like beer.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:35 am 
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Hope for the best and everyone's safety regarding Irma.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:41 am 
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When GOD made the world, He said: "I will put this hurricane here in the Caribbeans, this Earthquakes in China, this extreme weather in Canada, Scandinavia and Russia, etc...". Then St. Peter pointed out: "But Lord, what about Brazil?". Then, the LORD said: "Just wait and watch the people [actually the elite] I will put there, ahahahAhahahaHaHaHaHAHAHAHAH!!!

'Biggest cash haul' in Brazil ex-minister's apartment

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Brazilian police say they have made their biggest-ever seizure of cash in an apartment allegedly used by one of President Michel Temer's former cabinet members.

Police say they have counted more than $16m (£12.5m) in large-denomination notes found in the flat in the city of Salvador.

Former minister Geddel Vieira Lima is under house arrest.

Mr Temer is fighting a corruption crisis that has shaken his government.

The cash seizure was part of the police's Operation Lost Treasure.

Mr Vieira Lima was arrested in July as part of of a corruption investigation into a government-controlled bank.

Prosecutors say he tried to block investigations into state bank Caixa Economica Federal.

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Mr Vieira Lima, who was in charge of relations with Congress, resigned from his role last November after a former minister accused Mr Vieira Lima of pressuring him to approve a property investment.

Brazil's prosecutor general also charged Mr Temer and an aide with corruption - but last month the Brazilian Congress voted not to put him on trial for corruption.

Opposition lawmakers in the lower house of Congress failed to obtain the two-thirds majority needed to send the case to the Supreme Court.

The charge against Mr Temer came after a business tycoon secretly recorded a conversation with the president in an unofficial late-night meeting, which he revealed in May in a plea bargain deal with prosecutors.

During the conversation, Mr Temer appeared to endorse the tycoon obstructing the investigation and bribing politicians.

Mr Temer has said the footage is authentic, taken from a meeting in March, but he has strongly denied wrongdoing.

His administration has been bogged down with a string of corruption scandals since he took over from former president Dilma Rousseff in a controversial impeachment process.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41174071

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PS We're hoping for the best, L'Acadian...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Former Manson disciple Van Houten granted parole again
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/former-manson-disciple-van-houten-granted-parole-again/ar-AArn0np?li=BBnb4R7

Van Houten, who was 19 when she killed for Manson during a series of murders that terrorized Los Angeles over the summer of 1969, appeared before a parole panel for the 21st time.

At her parole hearing last year, Van Houten said she helped hold down Rosemary La Bianca while another Manson follower stabbed her repeatedly. She then took up a knife herself and added more than a dozen stab wounds.

Relatives of the La Biancas spoke emotionally Wednesday as they argued against parole for Van Houten, saying they don't believe she has really ever accepted responsibility for what she did.

"No member of the Manson family deserves parole, ever," said nephew Louis Smaldino. "She is a total narcissist and only thinks of herself and not the damage she has done."

The La Biancas' oldest grandson, Tony LaMantagne, also addressed the panel, his voice breaking as he noted he's about turn 44, the same age his grandfather was when he was killed.

"Please see to it that this fight doesn't have to happen every year for the rest of our lives," he said.

Sharon Tate's sister, Debra Tate, told the panel she believes parole should be granted to those who have been rehabilitated, but she doesn't think Van Houten has been.

The victims' family members left before the panel announced its decision.

Members of the Tate and La Bianca families have argued repeatedly against granting parole to her or any other Manson follower who took part in the killings.

None has been freed, and one, Susan Atkins, died in prison in 2009. Manson, now 82, remains behind bars.

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