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 Post subject: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:58 am 
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The classical tuning was based on a middle A note with 432 Hz. It was switched, by convention, to 440 Hz.

Some people say it is the key to the universe. Some people say it is stuff of conspiracy theory or simply a new trend for bored & miserable people everywhere to have some great new 'THING' to identify with...

The 432 Hz enthusiasts have arrived at this corner of the piano:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZ_x1jJYfE

You can compare with the standard tuning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Dwqx6rB0k

Any thoughts or comments?

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:33 am 
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I prefer 433 tuning, its quiet and peaceful


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:25 am 
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Was that a fly? All I hear is 4'33''...

No, but it was the 321th post of a ghost. Not our beloved Ghost, though (the grey one)...

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:16 pm 
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I keep Eddie in a Cage you know :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:01 pm 
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I have read a bit about this in the past.

For me the 432 Hz version seems to feel fuller, heavier, and more of a rolling fluidity than the standard version. The standard version has a sharper, more abrupt, and almost mathematical feel to it. I find myself getting more easily lost in the 432 Hz and possibly not paying as much direct attention to the musical notes themselves. There is a certain relaxing quality in the 432 Hz. I can't say that I prefer one over the other at the moment. Very interesting idea here.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:09 am 
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Compare:

Zoot Allures (original 440 Hz standard)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdQmhhi5cLI

Zoot Allures (432 Hz mystical version)
https://youtu.be/z3SA9DBBjmo

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:31 am 
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Sonic Geometry : The Language of Frequency and Form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd92ksKzTKY

This documentary discusses the 432 Hz theory as well as other frequency concepts.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:30 am 
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They had something about this on Ancient Aliens, but not being a musician made it tricky to retain, but apparently there is a lot of science going on about "Vibration" and music and the Universal Harmony of sound waves... :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:04 pm 
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cory1984 wrote:

For me the 432 Hz version seems to feel fuller, heavier, and more of a rolling fluidity than the standard version. The standard version has a sharper, more abrupt, and almost mathematical feel to it. I find myself getting more easily lost in the 432 Hz and possibly not paying as much direct attention to the musical notes themselves. There is a certain relaxing quality in the 432 Hz. I can't say that I prefer one over the other at the moment. Very interesting idea here.

You're talking about 30 cents worth of pitch, correct? Or is it some other aspect that is affecting you? Frequency? Vibration?

The audible difference between these tunings is less than a semitone. "Fuller, "heavier", "Rolling fluidity"... I feel like I'm at a wine tasting. I don't quite grasp how 30 cents worth of pitch could make music feel less mathematical. (Is 4 more mathematical than 3.70?) What happens if you keep tuning until you reach the next official note? Does it sound (feel) even heavier? (Tony Iommi tuned to C#). Maybe you just have a preference for certain keys?


One cannot escape the feeling that these mathematical formulas have an independent existence and an intelligence of their own, that they are wiser than we are, wiser even than their discoverers.”
― Heinrich Hertz


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:45 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
cory1984 wrote:

For me the 432 Hz version seems to feel fuller, heavier, and more of a rolling fluidity than the standard version. The standard version has a sharper, more abrupt, and almost mathematical feel to it. I find myself getting more easily lost in the 432 Hz and possibly not paying as much direct attention to the musical notes themselves. There is a certain relaxing quality in the 432 Hz. I can't say that I prefer one over the other at the moment. Very interesting idea here.

You're talking about 30 cents worth of pitch, correct? Or is it some other aspect that is affecting you? Frequency? Vibration?

The audible difference between these tunings is less than a semitone. "Fuller, "heavier", "Rolling fluidity"... I feel like I'm at a wine tasting. I don't quite grasp how 30 cents worth of pitch could make music feel less mathematical. (Is 4 more mathematical than 3.70?) What happens if you keep tuning until you reach the next official note? Does it sound (feel) even heavier? (Tony Iommi tuned to C#). Maybe you just have a preference for certain keys?


One cannot escape the feeling that these mathematical formulas have an independent existence and an intelligence of their own, that they are wiser than we are, wiser even than their discoverers.”
― Heinrich Hertz


The impression I get from this isn't based on the above samples alone. I have listened to various other samples on reasonable quality equipment, and came to this conclusion.
As far as how many cents worth of pitch, that seems to be the case, but I didn't come up with this. I'm certainly not literate when it comes to reading music, time signatures, etc. I also can't say how or why I get a different impression from one or the other, vibration? frequency? Sure why not?
I don't really see how you can criticize how certain art or sounds feel or influence a person. Have you ever heard of perspective? We all have one, and they're all different. A wine tasting huh? If you say so, I wouldn't know. Is the problem you have that I said "feel" instead of "sound"?
(perhaps you should do some self reflection as to why)
I get where you're coming from with the "mathematical" description. Maybe a better word here would be "mechanical" or a "sharpness".
Does you not grasping it make it impossible?
Again, your questions would be for someone who knows about tuning a pitch. Maybe I do have a preference for certain keys, but I didn't say that I preferred one sample over the other. I was simply going off a gut feeling, sheesh.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:26 am 
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cory1984 wrote:
I don't really see how you can criticize how certain art or sounds feel or influence a person. Have you ever heard of perspective? We all have one, and they're all different.

Hey, you are talking to Downer. One of the most appropriate names in the forum (most of the time).

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:03 am 
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Referring to the two YouTube clips and "pitching' these to 432....I don't think you can do a comparison this way. The thing that screws it up is that when you pitch the whole musical piece down in cents....it slows the whole arrangement down too. It would pitch down the bass guitar ,guitar and vibes too. The problem is that it also changes the rhythm and beat that amount of pitch too. If the tuning was only changed , the band would play at the same rhythm speed and only the sound of the tuned instruments would change. It's hard to tell what this would sound like unless you recorded the piece twice ...once all tuned to 440 and once tuned to 432....but I'd bet it would change the tone of everything anyway. So "Downer" either has no sense of pitch ,because if you listen to the music of Harry Partch and his "just intonation" music - almost everyone can tell micro-tones apart,...or he's just being the "devil's advocate".

I'd love to hear this two version trial on some piece of music ..for real. Anyone have a band "up" for it?


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:18 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Hey, you are talking to Downer. One of the most appropriate names in the forum (most of the time).

Gee, thanks. I thought I was instigating a more in depth discussion on your thread. You didn't even respond to my points. And I quoted Hertz. A great quote. He's right, don't you think?

cory1984 wrote:
I don't really see how you can criticize how certain art or sounds feel or influence a person. Have you ever heard of perspective? We all have one, and they're all different.

That was one of my points. Our brains are all different. Our ears are all different. I hardly criticized you. I was attempting to share something with you.
cory1984 wrote:
Does you not grasping it make it impossible?

Of course not. However, you have not really helped me to grasp it.

penguini wrote:
It's hard to tell what this would sound like unless you recorded the piece twice ...once all tuned to 440 and once tuned to 432....but I'd bet it would change the tone of everything anyway. So "Downer" either has no sense of pitch ,because if you listen to the music of Harry Partch and his "just intonation" music - almost everyone can tell micro-tones apart,...or he's just being the "devil's advocate".

I'd love to hear this two version trial on some piece of music ..for real. Anyone have a band "up" for it?

Yeah, I have no sense of pitch. That's why I jumped into this discussion.
"Anyone" can hear the difference if you start at 440 and, while still playing, tune to 432. However, I doubt most people could tell the difference using only their ears if you started in 432 and stayed there. Not without trying to play along or sing along in standard tuning. I'm tempted to put you to the test but it's easy to cheat. You'd have to know using only your ears. No playing along or checking the tuning with outside equipment.

You're wrong to say that anyone can tell microtones apart when listening to a song which remains in the same tuning all the way through. Most folks, using only their ears, would not be able to tell if it's in 440 or 432. I'd be pleasantly surprised if you could do it 4 out of 5 times.

It's a bit difficult for humans to be in harmony with "the universe" considering all of the distractions, and the fact that most of us are being conditioned to ignore our instincts. Let's not fool ourselves.


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No one can predict when a particular atom will decay.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:36 am 
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Downer Mydnyte ….I was not saying that if you played a 432 or 440 straight off my brain would say "Yup, 440!". NO, I am saying anyone who listens to music and can feel pitch (naturally ) would be able to feel one being a bit down....compared to the other tone. Go find Harry Partch's music ….and listen to micro-tonal music. This man tuned "just intonation" where there were many notes between "standard tuning". Pythagoras set up the rules for modern tuning....before him and his dictating what was "the devil's music" or not, and making certain notes "demonic" in the church's ears....there was no set tuning. In ancient times you got an instrument and tuned it any damned way you liked.....some artists are now feeling that was one bad move 9on Pythagoras' part),and that music should have no rules and that limited what people hear as music and "non music".

In any case, I still feel you are just being the Devil's Advocate here....or maybe I am because I listen to that Just Intonation Devil's music the Church made laws against long ago?


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:45 am 
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https://youtu.be/m8unoRnzcPE A link to a Partch video....


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:47 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Hey, you are talking to Downer. One of the most appropriate names in the forum (most of the time).

Gee, thanks. I thought I was instigating a more in depth discussion on your thread. You didn't even respond to my points. And I quoted Hertz. A great quote. He's right, don't you think?

cory1984 wrote:
I don't really see how you can criticize how certain art or sounds feel or influence a person. Have you ever heard of perspective? We all have one, and they're all different.

That was one of my points. Our brains are all different. Our ears are all different. I hardly criticized you. I was attempting to share something with you.

If this was one of the points of your post perhaps you should clarify it, it can be difficult to tell what you're getting at when much of what you say is steeped in sarcasm. You were most certainly criticizing the descriptive words that I was using (not that I care). Your wine tasting comparison makes this fairly obvious.
cory1984 wrote:
Does you not grasping it make it impossible?

Of course not. However, you have not really helped me to grasp it.

I'm not here to help you grasp it, I was sharing my experience.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:31 pm 
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penguini wrote:
https://youtu.be/m8unoRnzcPE A link to a Partch video....


Nice more my cup of tea than Donalds :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:33 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
And I quoted Hertz. A great quote. He's right, don't you think?

I said most of the time :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:46 am 
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432 Activists - Full Documentary 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTjAOaNUmM

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:49 am 
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Thank you, sir!
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:58 am 
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Welcome, and welcome back.

Sleep Dirt (432 Hz oneiric version)
https://youtu.be/0YqI9PAnU8E

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:08 am 
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Zappa - Uncle Remus 432 Hz
https://youtu.be/c_j0Ck0wwv4

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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:56 am 
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^ If you like 432 Hz you should try 415 Hz.

Sneaky Pete tuned to 415 is like listening to the uterus of the universe as it contracts.


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 Post subject: Re: 432 Hz
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:48 am 
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All right then, picture this if you will...

Sofa 432 Hz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7DFjBzsTdA

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