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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with everything BRAVO SIERRA says, but I think he makes some interesting points above. I at least am of the opinion that Truman at the time definitely believed that the Japanese would not surrender unless absolutely forced to. One can see evidence for this at the Potsdam Conference in July and August where he was still trying to persuade Stalin to get involved in the war against Japan. Considering the fact that he was not exactly an enormous fan of Stalin's this indicates that he was still worried about a long drawn-out conflict with Japan and was even prepared to sacrifice Japanese and Chinese territory to the Soviets as a result.

So your uncle was at Treblinka, BS - was he one of the Soviet soldiers who liberated it? If not, what was he doing in Poland?

No he was a german soldier., Technically the bomb did not need to be droped and the US did not have to join the fight in europe.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:50 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
It explains why Zündel maybe deserved a prison sentence.

No one should go in prision for promoting an idea. No matter how "dangerous" it is. It's a violation to freedom of speech.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Thanks for the links, Rope and Caputh. I'll check them out.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:03 pm 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Caputh wrote:
It explains why Zündel maybe deserved a prison sentence.

No one should go in prision for promoting an idea. No matter how "dangerous" it is. It's a violation to freedom of speech.



Even in the US there is such a thing as libel - if I claim that you are lying when you say that your relatives have been murdered when they were and attempt to fabricate evidence to deceive others that what I say is true, I am defaming both you and your dead relatives. Don't you think that is worthy of punishment?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:16 am 
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Caputh wrote:
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Caputh wrote:
It explains why Zündel maybe deserved a prison sentence.

No one should go in prision for promoting an idea. No matter how "dangerous" it is. It's a violation to freedom of speech.

Even in the US there is such a thing as libel - if I claim that you are lying when you say that your relatives have been murdered when they were and attempt to fabricate evidence to deceive others that what I say is true, I am defaming both you and your dead relatives. Don't you think that is worthy of punishment?

I'm not sure. I know it's nocive. But I don't like the idea of the goverment having the power to judge you for something like that. What if an holocaust denier is not a nazi trying to attempt a second holocaust? I think publishing a book refuting them is a better idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:08 am 
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sorry, made a goof.


Last edited by brainpang on Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:09 am 
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re: The Spear Of Destiny...............

A literary Kook Klassic!

The Spear Of Destiny -- Trevor Ravenscroft

I can't so better than this Amazon reviewer so here goes:

50 of 54 people found the following review helpful
Incredible! Astounding! On Other Hand...
By Vince Cabrera on May 6, 2000

In the first pages of The Spear, Ravenscroft states flat out that he considers the third eye (AKA the pineal gland) to be a valid primary source for historical research. To complicate matters even further, Ravenscroft was describing the visions of Dr. Walter Stein, his friend and teacher who was dead by the time Ravenscroft began writing.
How you feel about the Spear of Destiny depends a lot on how seriously you take Ravenscroft's ideas on the 3rd Eye. Are you ok with someone writing history as seen in someone else's mystical vision or are you more the footnotesey type? The fact that a lot of Ravenscroft's quoted sources are out of print makes his ideas hard to check or corroborate.
Havng said all this, I really love the Spear of Destiny and I've lost track of the number of times I've given copies to friends. I love Ravenscroft's ideas, whereby WWII was really a conflict between famous 9th Century figures reincarnated after exactly 1000 years. Ravenscroft's WWII was a war between cosmic Good and Evil in their most absolute senses. It's all very Michael Moorcock/The Highlander and if anything, Ravenscroft's book highlights how sorely we need a bit of romance and myth in our times. Read it by all means. Maybe you'll take it seriously, maybe not. But you will certainly be entertained.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:58 am 
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Zundel was deported from Canada to Germany, where holocaust denial is illegal. It is illegal in several European countries.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ernst-zund ... l-1.659372

From the link:

"In several European countries, including Germany, Austria, Belgium, Poland, Spain and France, Holocaust denial is a specific criminal offence.In Canada, Holocaust denial can be prosecuted as a hate crime."




Libel or slander is a civil matter in the USA and does not usually end in jail time. Some people compare holocaust denial with shouting FIRE! in a crowed theater. I personally don't see it that way, but if were ever "proven" that the holocaust did not happen or did not happen to the great degree "history" tells us it did, it would piss a lot of people off, and anger would be directed at Jews, but they should be used to that by now because they have been pissing people off for centuries.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:59 am 
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Caputh:

I did some research on Seyss-Inquart following your question. In history classes, and especially during the war, Seyss-Inquart was loathed - but the Dutch extreme rightwing party NSB was strongly reviled by non-members - much more than the actual nazis.
The NSB was founded by Anton Mussert, who was also the party's leader, and it's Mussert who's most often painted as the Evil Mastermind. Mussert himself was actually opposed to the ideas of racial superiority, but this changed when Rost van Tonningen joined the NSB.
Mussert wasn't much of a political leader and hardly respectable - he was married to his aunt who was 18 years his senior and scored a 4/10 on German at school. During the war he was sort of given leadership of the Netherlands in 1942, but that wasn't taken seriously by the Nazis. All the same he managed to enrich himself during the war, stealing for about 10 million in present-day Euros from jews.

After WW2 Mussert was convicted for high treason and executed on the Waalsdorpervlakte in 1946.

In other words, for all the crimes six-and-a-quarter did, he has a shield in the shape of Mussert.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 am 
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By serendipity I came by this anti-Semitic holocaust-denying website displaying all sorts of evidence that the six-million figure is derived from Jewish propaganda traditions.

http://renegadetribune.com/the-six-million-myth/

Do we discount the thick amount of evidence simply because the source seems to have it in for Jews and Zionism?

It's not libel if it's true.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:01 am 
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Firstly, the "official" figure is between 5 and 6 million.
Secondly, Zündel wasn't denying that less than 6 milliion were killed and he was basically denying that any were killed at all.
Generally, these sites try to get 'round some of the following war time documents, by claiming they are fakes, even though they manifestly aren't:

The Wannsee Protocol January 20, 1942, meeting between representatives of the ministeries
Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able- bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will be combed through from west to east. Germany proper, including the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities.
The evacuated Jews will first be sent, group by group, to so-called transit ghettos, from which they will be transported to the East. SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich went on to say that an important prerequisite for the evacuation as such is the exact definition of the persons involved. It is not intended to evacuate Jews over 65 years old, but to send them to an old-age ghetto – Theresienstadt is being considered for this purpose.

Memorandum from Heydrich , July 2, 1941
Executions
All the following are to be executed:
Officials of the Comintern (together with professional Communist politicians in general); Top- and medium-level officials and radical lower-level officials of the Party. Central committee and district and sub-district committees;
Peoples’ commissars; Jews in Party and State employment, and other radical elements (saboteurs, propagandists, snipers, assassins, inciters, etc.) insofar as they are, of special importance for the further economic reconstruction of the Occupied Territories.

Operational Situation Report USSR No. 19 Einsatzgruppe A Location: Kaunus July 11, 1941
In Kaunas, up to now a total of 7,800 Jews have been liquidated partly through pogroms and partly through shooting by Lithuanian Kommandos. All of the corpses have been removed. Further mass shootings are no longer possible. Therefore, I summoned a Jewish committee and explained that up to now we had no reason to interfere with the internal arrangements between Lithuanians and the Jews. Foundations for a "New Order": The establishment of a Jewish ghetto…The town of Viliampol was designated as the location of the ghetto.
The resettlement must be carried out within 4 weeks. Prisons now are being searched once more. Some Jews, for special reasons, are being arrested and shot. This will involve a minor number of executions, only 50 to 100 persons.

Operational Situation Report USSR No.101 Einsatzgruppe C Location: Kiev
Sonderkommando 4a in collaboration with Einsatzgruppe HQ and two Kommandos of police regiment South, executed 33,771 Jews in Kiev on September 29 and 30, 1941.
Einsatzgruppe D Location: Nikolayev
The Kommandos continued the liberation of the area from Jews and Communist elements. In the period covered by the report, the towns of Nikolayev and Kherson in particular were freed of Jews. Remaining officials there were appropriately treated. From September 16 to 30, 22,467 Jews and Communists were executed. Total number 35,782.

Bugged Conversation in Nuremberg Jail between General Bruns and a fellow POW on 25 April, 1945 in which a mass-shooting in Riga is described
BRUNS: As soon as I heard those Jews were to be shot on Friday I went to a 21-year old boy and said that they had made themselves very useful in the area under my command. I told that fellow ALTENMEYER(?) whose name I shall always remember and who will be added to the list of war criminals: "Listen to me, they represent valuable man-power!" 'Do you call Jews valuable human beings, sir?" I said: "Listen to me properly, I said valuable man-power'. I didn't mention their value as human beings." He said: "Well, they're to be shot in accordance with the FÜHRER's orders! I said: "FÜHRER's orders?" "Yes", whereupon he showed me his orders.… Six men with tommy-guns were posted at each pit; the pits were 24 m in length and 3 m in breadth - they had to lie down like sardines in a tin, with their heads in the centre. Above there were six men with tommy-guns who gave them the coup de grâce. When I arrived those pits were so full that the living had to lie down on top of the dead; then they were shot and, in order to save room, they had to lie down neatly in layers. A fortnight later… ALTENMEYER(?) triumphantly showed me: "Here is an order, just issued, prohibiting mass-shootings on that scale from taking place in future. They are to be carried out more discreetly."

Letter to SS Oberstürmbannführer Rauff from the SS Reich Security Main Office, Berlin, 5 June 1942 on the usage of mobile Gas vans using Carbon Monoxide
Since December 1941, ninety-seven thousand have been processed, using three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles… Previous experience has shown that the following adjustments would be useful:… To facilitate the cleaning of the vehicle, an opening will be made in the floor to allow for drainage… Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grill should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulbs. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness. It is therefore expedient to keep the lights on before the operation and during the first few minutes of its duration. Lighting is also useful for night work and for cleaning of the interior of the van.

A Report on the Duty Journey through POLAND from the 4th –16th May 1943 by SS- Sturmbannführer ALBERT FRANKE-GRICKSCH
The Auschwitz camp has a special task in the settlement of the Jewish question. The most modern methods make it possible to implement the Fuhrer Order very quickly and discreetly. The so-called "resettlement action" for the Jews proceeds as follows: The Jews arrive in special trains (goods wagons) towards evening and are taken by a special line to a special area of the camp. There they are unloaded and examined by a medical board in the presence of the Camp Commandant and several leading SS in the first place to see if they are fit for work…The unfit go to a biggish house, into the basement rooms, which are accessible from the outside. They descend 5 or 6 steps and come to a long, well-built and ventilated basement, fitted with benches on the right and left…The prisoners are told that they are to be disinfected and washed ready for their new tasks. They therefore have to undress completely to be bathed. In order to avoid any panic or disorder, they are told to arrange their clothes neatly and leave them under a number so that they can find their things again after the bath. Everything proceeds in complete calm. They then go through a small corridor and arrive in a big basement room that resembles a shower room. In this room, there are three big pillars. Into these it is possible from above, outside the basement, to lower certain products. After 300 to 400 people have gathered in this room, the doors are closed and from above containers with the products are lowered into the pillars. When the containers reach the floor of the pillars, they produce certain substances that put the people to sleep in one minute. A few minutes later, the door on the other side is opened, leading to a lift. The hair of the corpses is cut off and the teeth are broken out (gold teeth) by qualified people (Jews)…After this the corpses are burned (As fresh corpses burn particularly well, the whole process requires only…[25 to 50kg] of coke). The work itself is carried out by Jewish prisoners who will never leave this camp. The result to date of this "resettlement action": 500,000 Jews. The present capacity of the "resettlement action" furnaces: 10,000 in 24 hours.

Of course, any post-war documents e.g. the entire memoirs of the Kommandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hoess, which he wrote after being condemned to death in Poland and Eichmann's testimony (who, btw, stated the figure of between six million both during and after the war) are fakes too.

The Jews were obviously very busy during and after the war either faking documents or forcing Nazis to admit to crimes in which they were not involved.

I think not...

I also wonder how children under the age of 13 (the ones who were not to be worked to death, as they couldn't work) could be made responsible for the "crimes" of the Jewish race, according to your logic, Rope.

BTW, BBP thanks very much for the info on Seyß-Inquart - informative.

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Last edited by Caputh on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:52 pm 
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The Nazis, A Warning From History Image http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-nazi ... m-history/


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:08 pm 
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There are actual Holocaust deniers here, really… :!:

6 million is probably a low estimate due to the Germans of mixed race that were executed or sent to the camps not to mention the many deaths before the camp mechanism was put in place…watch Story of a Lifetime about Kitty Hart-Moxon... :idea:

I am just amazed that this is even an possibly an issue for anyone, absolutely shocked, wow... :(


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:43 am 
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There just happened to have been a thorough Jewish census in The Netherlands, all the jewish people were enlisted in that. Saved the nazis a lot of work... might also be a major reason why the death toll of Dutch jews was so high.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:23 am 
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The Wieringermeer was poldered in 1930 to make for very fertile ground. This was destroyed by the Germans on 17 April 1945, who poked the dikes to attempt to stop the allied forces.

Flooded polder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXOSUOmGjc

Damage and repairs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mk8SaJjjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOj7p31Hx6Q

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:03 pm 
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BBP wrote:
The Wieringermeer was poldered in 1930 to make for very fertile ground. This was destroyed by the Germans on 17 April 1945, who poked the dikes to attempt to stop the allied forces.

Flooded polder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXOSUOmGjc

Damage and repairs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mk8SaJjjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOj7p31Hx6Q


This is quite interesting as regards what I posted about Seyß-Inquart above. His testimony at Nuremberg on 11/06/1946 was as follows...

"DR. STEINBAUER: We have heard in this Trial of "scorched earth" policy. Did that apply to the Netherlands also?

SEYSS-INQUART: I received a "scorched earth" order from Bormann. Without there being a military necessity for it, all technical installations were to be blown up. That meant, in effect, the destruction of Holland, that is, the western Netherlands. If explosions are carried out in 14 or 16 different places in Holland the country will be entirely flooded in 3 or 4 weeks. I did not carry out the order at first; instead I established contact with Reich Minister Speer. I had a personal meeting with him on 1 April in Oldenburg. Speer told me that the same order had been given in the Reich; but that he was frustrating it, that he now had full authority in this matter, and that he agreed that the order should not be carried out in the Netherlands. It was not carried out.

DR. STEINBAUER: Now, to another chapter. Floods did occur. Did you have anything to do with them?

SEYSS-INQUART: I know about this, and in a certain connection I did have something to do with it.

There were previously prepared floodings by the Armed Forces for defense purposes and there were so-called "battle" floo[d]ings, which suddenly became necessary in the course of battle. The prepared ones were carried out in closest contact with my office and the Dutch offices. Through their intervention, about half of the area demanded was spared and saved. The flooding was done mostly with fresh water so that less damage would occur, and the outer dikes were spared. There were two battle floo[d]ings in Holland, at the order of the commander of Holland. The Wieringer Polder was mentioned in particular. At that time there was great danger of a troop landing from the air which would outflank the Dutch defense front. I was not actually informed of the execution of the battle floo[d]ings. The commander had decided on it overnight.

When, on 30 April, I talked to Lieutenant General Bedell Smith, General Eisenhower's Chief of the General Staff, he told us: "What has been flooded so far can be justified from the military point of view; if you flood any more now, it is no longer justifiable."

After 30 April there were no more floo[d]ings."

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/06-11-46.asp

I've always wondered whether this was Seyß-Inquart attempting to talk his way out, or whether he did really intervene. Did e.g. an evacuation of the civilian population take place beforehand?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:32 pm 
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That is a good question that would need some research.

Breaking the dikes is a tactic that is well-known with the Dutch - it was used many times before the invention of airplanes, particularly during the wars with the Spaniards.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:35 pm 
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What is also interesting is his reference to Speer, who sat next to him during the Trial and with whom he appears to have developed a friendly relationship. A tactic, developed for mutual gain in a difficult situation, or an honest memory?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:03 pm 
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I hadn't heard of the Nero Decree, looking into it... At any rate a friendship didn't work in Seyss-Inquart's case, do you reckon he had a hand in getting Speer a lighter sentence?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:05 pm 
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Aldwych Underground Station during the blitz, London October 21, 1940

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:18 am 
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Interesting photos, punknaynowned

I used to live opposite this bunker/flak tower (Humboldthain) when I lived in Berlin.
This is what it looks like today...
Image

The hill that covers most of it was created after the war by piling up nearby rubble.

At the end of the war, it looked like this...
Image

There was also an enormous air raid shelter underneath...

Image

In case you're wondering what Hitler's bunker looks like today, fittingly...

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...it's a car park.

At the end of the war, it looked like this...
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The Battle of Los Angeles, Part 1

The early morning hours of 2-25-42 would bring the first alerts of an invasion. Naturally, the first thought in the minds of everyone was that another wave of Japanese planes was attacking America on its own soil. Citizens of Culver City and Santa Monica would be the first to witness the surreal sight of a giant unknown object hovering over the suburban areas of Los Angeles.

Immediately, an air raid siren shattered the peaceful sleep of the residents, and volunteer Air Raid Wardens grabbed their gear, and headed to the streets, affecting a total blackout.

Army's 37th Coast Artillery Brigade swung into action, lighting up the clear, black skies with their massive spotlights. What they saw was beyond belief. With the Japanese planes still flying in their nightmares, another menacing flying machine was now right on top of them.

In a matter of a few short minutes, the entire southern area of California was looking to the skies, watching the intense spotlight beams converging on the giant invading UFO. The 37th's anti-aircraft guns helped light up the night, firing volley after volley at the large craft.

Many eyewitness reports would state that the large object took many direct hits, but appeared undamaged. The 30+ minute barrage would send fragmented shells over homes, businesses, and citizens. In the aftermath six individuals were found dead from the spent and fragmented artillery shells.

It was reported that hundreds upon hundreds of rounds were fired at the giant UFO, yet it appeared unaffected. Eyewitness accounts described the object as a "surreal, hanging, magic lantern." The object was especially visible as it hovered over the MGM studios in Culver City.

There are a number of newspaper articles of this event, and an astonishingly clear picture of the object as it was under its heaviest attack. The object eventually made its way over Long Beach, before it silently disappeared from view. The cannons were now silent.

Some of the most intriguing testimony of the UFO comes from a woman who was a volunteer Air Raid Warden. She lived like many others, in fear of another Japanese attack.

Nothing, however, could prepare her for what she so clearly witnessed the night of the giant UFO. Shaken awake by a call from her supervisor, she was briefed on the situation. Living not far from Santa Monica, she was told the object was close enough for her to see from her window.

Peeking out of her window, she was shocked at the sight of the massive UFO above. She described the sight as follows:

"It was huge! It was just enormous! And it was practically right over my house. I had never seen anything like it in my life!" she said.

"It was just hovering there in the sky and hardly moving at all."

"It was a lovely pale orange and about the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. I could see it perfectly because it was very close. It was big!"

"They sent fighter planes up and I watched them in groups approach it and then turn away. There were shooting at it but it didn't seem to matter."

"It was like the Fourth of July, but much louder. They were firing like crazy but they couldn't touch it."

"I'll never forget what a magnificent sight it was. Just marvelous. And what a gorgeous color!" she said

As the giant UFO moved away, things began to get back to normal, as normal as things could get, considering the times. The military clampdown on Japanese citizens, and security restrictions on its native populace made this an unusual time.

Had it not been for America being at war, news of this event would have gained more momentum. The lesson to be learned from this is simply that we must be ready at all times to defend our country, and our globe from any invading force that would take our freedom as we know it from us.

The Battle of Los Angeles, Part 2
Newspaper Excerpts / Eyewitness Reports


Chilly Throng Watches Shells Bursting In Sky

By Marvin Miles


Explosions stabbing the darkness like tiny bursting stars... Searchlight beams poking long crisscross fingers across the night sky...Yells of wardens and the whistles of police and deputy sheriffs...The brief on-and-off flick of lights, telephone calls, snatches of conversation: 'Get the dirty...' That was Los Angeles under the rumble of gunfire yesterday.
RESIDENTS AWAKENED

Sleepy householders awoke to the dull thud of explosions... "Thunder? Can't be!" Then: "Air Raid! Come here quick! Look over there...those searchlights. They've got something...they are blasting in with anti-aircraft!" Father, mother, children all gathered on the front porch, congregated in small clusters in the blacked out streets -- against orders. Babies cried, dogs barked, doors slammed. But the object in the sky slowly moved on, caught in the center of the lights like the hub of a bicycle wheel surrounded by gleaming spokes.

SPECULATION RIFE

Speculation fell like rain. "It's a whole squadron." "No, it's a blimp. It must be because it's moving so slowly." "I hear planes." "No you don't. That's a truck up the street." "Where are the planes then?" "Dunno. They must be up there though." "Wonder why they picked such a clear night for a raid?" "They're probably from a carrier." "Naw, I'll bet they are from a secret air base down south somewhere." Still the firing continued. Like lethal firecrackers, the anti-aircraft rounds blasted above, below, seemingly right on the target fixed in the tenacious beams. Other shots fell short, exploding halfway up the long climb. Tracers sparked upward like roman candles. Metal fell. It fell in chunks, large and small; not enemy metal, but the whistling fragments of bursting ack-ack shells. The menacing thud and clank on streets and roof tops drove many spectators to shelter.



Close up view of large UFO


WARDENS DO GOOD JOB
Wardens were on the job, doing a good job of it. "Turn off your lights, please. Pull over to the curb and stop. Don't use your telephone. Take shelter. Take shelter." On every street brief glares of hooded flashlights cut the darkness, warning creeping drivers to stop. Police watched at main intersections. Sirens wailed enroute to and from blackout accidents. There came lulls in the firing. The search lights went out. (To allow the fighter planes to attack?). Angelinos breathed deeply and said, "I guess it's all over." But before they could tell their neighbors good night, the guns were blasting again, sighting up the long blue beams of the lights.

WATCHERS SHIVER

The fire seemed to burst in rings all around the target. But the eager watchers, shivering in the early morning cold, weren't rewarded by the sight of a falling plane. Nor were there any bombs dropped. "Maybe it's just a test," someone remarked. "Test, hell!" was the answer. "You don't throw that much metal in the air unless you're fixing on knocking something down." Still the firing continued, muttering angrily off toward the west like a distant thunderstorm. The targeted object inched along high, flanked by the cherry red explosions. And the householders shivered in their robes, their faces set, watching the awesome scene.



Newspaper Archives


Army Says Alarm Real Roaring Guns Mark Blackout

By Marvin Miles


Identity of Aircraft Veiled in Mystery; No Bombs Dropped and No Enemy Craft Hit; Civilians Reports Seeing Planes and Balloon
Overshadowing a nation-wide maelstrom of rumors and conflicting reports, the Army's Western Defense Command insisted that Los Angeles' early morning blackout and anti-aircraft action were the result of unidentified aircraft sighted over the beach area. In two official statements, issued while Secretary of the Navy Knox in Washington was attributing the activity to a false alarm and "jittery nerves," the command in San Francisco confirmed and reconfirmed the presence over the Southland of unidentified planes. Relayed by the Southern California sector office in Pasadena, the second statement read: "The aircraft which caused the blackout in the Los Angeles area for several hours this a.m. have not been identified." Insistence from official quarters that the alarm was real came as hundreds of thousands of citizens who heard and saw the activity spread countless varying stories of the episode. The spectacular anti-aircraft barrage came after the 14th Interceptor Command ordered the blackout when strange craft were reported over the coastline. Powerful searchlights from countless stations stabbed the sky with brilliant probing fingers while anti-aircraft batteries dotted the heavens with beautiful, if sinister, orange bursts of shrapnel.

City Blacked Out For Hours

The city was blacked out from 2:25 to 7:21 am after an earlier yellow alert at 7:18 pm was called off at 10:23 pm. The blackout was in effect from here to the Mexican border and inland to the San Joaquin Valley. No bombs were dropped and no airplanes shot down and, miraculously in terms of the tons of missiles hurled aloft, only two persons were reported wounded by falling shell fragments. Countless thousands of Southland residents, many of whom were late to work because of the traffic tie-up during the blackout, rubbed their eyes sleepily yesterday and agreed that regardless of the question of how "real" the air raid alarm may have been, it was "a great show" and "well worth losing a few hours' sleep." The blackout was not without its casualties, however. A State Guardsman died of a heart attack while driving an ammunition truck, heart failure also accounted for the death of an air raid warden on duty, a woman was killed in a car-truck collision in Arcadia, and a Long Beach policeman was killed in a traffic crash enroute to duty. Much of the firing appeared to come from the vicinity of aircraft plants along the coastal area of Santa Monica, Inglewood, Southwest Los Angeles, and Long Beach.


Image
Close up view of large UFO


Eye Witness Testimony

source: http://brumac.8k.com/BATTLEOFLA/BOLA1.html

H.C. writes:

I'm a WWII veteran. Just thought I'd let you know that I was an eyewitness to the event back in February of 1942. I was 14 at the time, living in the Adams and Crenshaw area of Los Angeles. My family and I observed the entire episode through the large bay window of our home facing west.

The air raid sirens awoke us at 2 AM. There was a period of silence following that, then the thumping of antiaircraft fire. The northwest sky was lit up with bursting shells and searchlights. The action was moving south along the coastline. I remember distinctly the convergence of searchlights reflecting off the bottom of some kind of slow moving objects, apparently flying in formation. They seemed to be completely oblivious and impervious to the shells exploding around them.

I was quite the aviation buff back then, as I am now, but I must admit that I had a devil of a time trying to identify the objects, what with the awe, excitement and speculation of the moment, the bursting shells, tracers, etc. I was surprised in the days that followed to discover that with all that aggressive firepower there was no evidence that we had brought anything down.

I lived on Virginia Road, a half block south of West Adams Boulevard and one-quarter mile south of what is now the Interstate 10 Santa Monica Freeway; about 5.5 miles southwest of what is now the Los Angeles Civic Center; and approximately 10.5 miles due east of the Pacific coastline of Santa Monica.

We were looking in a westward direction from our large living room bay window which gave us an unobstructed panorama of view facing the northwest, west and southwest. We then went to our south-facing kitchen and porch windows to observe the action where it culminated in the south. Ergo, the action followed the coastline.

It could have been two, or three, or up to six miles away, I can't recall exactly since it occurred so long ago. But I strongly remember the searchlights converging on the bottoms of the reddish objects flying in formation

Scott Littleton writes:

I was an eye-witness to the events of that unforgettable February morning in February of 1942. I was eight-years-old at the time, and my parents lived at 2500 Strand in Hermosa Beach, right on the beach. We thus had a grandstand seat. While my father went about his air-raid warden duties, my late mother and I watched the glowing object, which was caught in the glare of searchlights from both Palos Verdes and Malibu/Pacific/Palisades and surrounded by the puffs of ineffectual anti-aircraft fire, as it slowly flew across the ocean from northwest to southeast.

It headed inland over Redondo Beach, a couple of miles to the south of our vantage point, and eventually disappeared over the eastern end of the Palos Verdes hills, what's today called Rancho Palos Verdes. The whole incident last, at least from our perspective, lasted about half an hour, though we didn't time it.

Like other kids in the neighborhood, I spend the next morning picking up of pieces of shrapnel on the beach; indeed, it's a wonder more people weren't injured by the stuff, as we were far from the only folks standing outside watching the action.

In any case, I don't recall seeing any truly discernable configuration, just a small, glowing, slight lozenge-shaped blob light-a single, blob, BTW. We only saw one object, not several as some witnesses later reported. At the time, we were convinced that it was a "Jap" reconnaissance plane, and that L.A. might be due for a major air-raid in the near future.

Remember, this was less than three months after Pearl Harbor. But that of course never happened. Later on, we all expected "them," that is, the Military, to tell us what was really up there after the war. But that never happened, either...

New photo enhancements clearly show massive UFO in the concentrated light beams.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:24 am 
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Got an awesome book today. It's from 1946 and is a chronicle of WW2 in The Netherlands from May 10th 1940 to May 8th 1945. I hope I'll be able to give you a better answer to your Seyss-Inquart question when I finish it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Operation Market Garden is interesting although considered a failure.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:46 pm 
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It's very interesting, all of it, it doesn't necessarily have to be violent. Like the 1943 crafts book I spotted at the second-hand shop today. People had really adapted their writing to the German censors so it's really reading between the lines. And heart-breaking. "We know we don't have any models because there's no paper, and you don't have any material to work with because it's scarce, but there will be better times!"

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