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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:08 pm 
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Is Zappa a patriot? I'm not, and I find it hard to think Zappa is because he's against most governmental things.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:27 pm 
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Patriot. noun. One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.<br><br>Yes, Frank was a patriot. Very much so. He loved America, even when he wasn't happy with its government or some of its people. Don't you think? Why else would he have pushed for people to vote or considered running for President himself? You just don't do that for a country you hate, especially if you are spending your own money to do it!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:16 pm 
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[quote author=swiftkicknow link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#1 date=06/29/03 at 17:27:49]Patriot. noun. One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.<br><br>Yes, Frank was a patriot. Very much so. He loved America, even when he wasn't happy with its government or some of its people. Don't you think? Why else would he have pushed for people to vote or considered running for President himself? You just don't do that for a country you hate, especially if you are spending your own money to do it![/quote]<br><br>well said kicker.  what is it with this guy and patriots anyway?<br>

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:27 pm 
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We're the patriots who don't approve of censorship (the good patriots - not those assholes who ban Dixie Chicks albums from their record stores because the one Dixie Chick who said that the war is stupid ... which it is, and that G.W. Bush was a insult to Texas ... Which he is not. Anybody from Texas is an insult to Texas.)

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 Post subject: re: zappa, patriot
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:27 pm 
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yes

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Last edited by slime.oofytv.set on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:01 pm 
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To stand up for what you believe is as patriotic as you can get.   The government needs to be kept in check and that can only happen when we speak our minds. We need government but government needs us even more. Too many people behave like livestock being led to slaughter. <br>       " The meek shall inhereit nothing"<br> Yes Frank was a true patriot.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:17 am 
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Two types of patriots:<br><br>I got this from the libertarian information booth when they had the carnival in town.  (called Heritage Fest in Downers Grove, IL).  I disagree with the libertarians on a lot of things but I like how they take a strong stance on issues I do care about.  They aren't spineless like the Democrats and they show the Republicans to be the hipocrates that they are by truley standing for less government.  I'm with them on getting the government out of our personal lives but alot of their economic arguments don't seem to make sense to me.   ( someone here qouted zappa as saying the libertarians didn't make any sense, which I would agree with at least halfway).<br><br>Anyway, on to the point:  There are two types of Patriots.  The first one is what characterizes the American people in the 20th century.  This is what is taught in our public schools- patriotism means putting blind trust in your government and elected officials to do the right thing.  It involves zero thinking, it is almost like Nazism.  (but at least we're not killing any Jews).<br><br>The second type of patriotism is what characherized the British colonists during the late 1700's.  "They believed patriotism meant a devotion to certain principles of rightness and morality.  They believed that the good citizen had the duty to make an independent judgement as to whether or not his government's laws violated these principles.  And so, unlike their counterparts in America today, these individuals refused to automatically accept the legitamacy of the actions of their public officials." (Jacob G. Hornberger, founder and president of the Future of Freedom Foundation)<br><br>I believe zappa was the second type of patriot, and definatly not the first type.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:21 am 
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Hey! A new guy! Welcome to the forum, poodlehat!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:36 am 
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Well you may be a patriot, but you ain't a dancer!<br><br>HELTER SKELTER!<br><br>No, seriously, why did he have songs like I Don't Wanna Get Drafted then? Can you be a patriot and still hate the military/draft?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:50 am 
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[quote author=Sparlatacus link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#9 date=06/30/03 at 07:36:03]... Can you be a patriot and still hate the military/draft?[/quote]<br><br>Yes.<br><br>Being patriotic does NOT mean you agree with everything your government always does.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:58 am 
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Exactly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:04 am 
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[quote author=Thing-Fish2003 link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#3 date=06/29/03 at 18:27:02] Anybody from Texas is an insult to Texas.)[/quote]<br><br>I disagree.  Just because one idiot came from there doesn't mean everyone from there is an idiot.  There are plenty of people from Texas who disagree with Bush, including the Dixie Chicks, Jim Hightower, and Molly Ivans.  Plus one of the most liberal girls I know is from Texas.  <br>And Bush isn't just an insult to Texas.  Bush is an insult to America.  Come on people, we have over 200 million people living in our country, and this was the best we could come up with as our president?  If he wasn't the millionaire son of an ex-president he probably would be working at Mcdonalds and not running our country.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:49 am 
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[quote author=Dr.Including link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#13 date=06/30/03 at 09:29:17]<br><br>I heard (or read ?) somewhere (but I can't remember where, so I don't know if it's true) that the Bush-family isn't actually from Texas but they have been bankers from Connecticut who got rich by laundering german nazi-money....<br><br>Can anybody put some light on this ? (I wish I would remember where I got this from...)[/quote]<br><br>Image<br>You heard it from me. Yes. it is all true.<br>

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:03 am 
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[quote author=Dr.Including link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#13 date=06/30/03 at 09:29:17]<br><br>I heard (or read ?) somewhere (but I can't remember where, so I don't know if it's true) that the Bush-family isn't actually from Texas but they have been bankers from Connecticut who got rich by laundering german nazi-money....[/quote]<br><br>I read in Time way back in the Bush the First era that their family has been an important and influential family way before the Nazis. I remember reading that the skull of one of the last chiefs of some Indian camps (Mohikans? Siouix? can't remember) is still in the Bush family treasury -ever since it was cut off, I presume.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:54 am 
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[quote author=cor_bovinum link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=15#15 date=06/30/03 at 10:03:24]<br>I remember reading that the skull of one of the last chiefs of some Indian camps (Mohikans? Siouix? can't remember) is still in the Bush family treasury -ever since it was cut off, I presume. [/quote]<br>Well I've heard of people having skeletons in the closet, but this is ridiculous Image<br><br>[hr]<br><br><br><br>(P.S. I'm not mocking you guys, I've just been in a goofball frame of mind today ;).<br>These Bush stories are pretty trippy. I've never heard any of these stories before.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:04 pm 
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[quote author=poodlehat link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#12 date=06/30/03 at 08:04:44]<br><br>I disagree.  Just because one idiot came from there doesn't mean everyone from there is an idiot.  There are plenty of people from Texas who disagree with Bush, including the Dixie Chicks, Jim Hightower, and Molly Ivans.  Plus one of the most liberal girls I know is from Texas.  <br>And Bush isn't just an insult to Texas.  Bush is an insult to America.  Come on people, we have over 200 million people living in our country, and this was the best we could come up with as our president?  If he wasn't the millionaire son of an ex-president he probably would be working at Mcdonalds and not running our country.[/quote]<br><br>Right on the nose ! I would have add that Bush is also an insult to the world and to everyone who do have an ounce of brain. He's just a puppet, but a dangerous one.<br><br>And BTW, SRV was from Texas, right ? Just asking, I'm not sure. And I do very like his playing and he was a nice man. Too bad he fell into drugs at one time and that he died too soon, like Hendrix.<br><br>My 3 (canadian) cents.   8)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:34 pm 
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ImageImage<br><br>A Texan I've always liked. And another guy I've always liked immitating a Texan I've always liked. I like Angus beef, too. I think that might come from Texas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:44 pm 
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[quote author=poodlehat link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=0#7 date=06/30/03 at 06:17:17]( someone here qouted zappa as saying the libertarians didn't make any sense, which I would agree with at least halfway)[/quote]<br>I read an interview with FZ in Kurt Loder's book "Bat Chain Puller" in which he dismissed the libertarians as closet anarchists. This is the same reason that Ayn Rand, who was their original inspiration, disassociated herself from them.<br>

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:00 pm 
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[quote author=L. Jon Hubbub link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=15#19 date=06/30/03 at 15:44:56]<br>I read an interview with FZ in Kurt Loder's book "Bat Chain Puller" in which he dismissed the libertarians as closet anarchists. This is the same reason that Ayn Rand, who was their original inspiration, disassociated herself from them.<br>[/quote]<br>That's very interesting! I've just recently been digging up some stuff on libertarians, trying to get a bead on what they are about. They are very big on individualism, which I like. A lot of their ideas sound good to me, but I can see if they were taken to extremes it would be going in the direction of anarchy. However, at least on the surface, it seems to me that they rely on logic and common sense more than Republicans and Democrats do.<br>[hr]<br>For more on that, go here:<br>http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1056977537

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:44 pm 
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[quote author=swiftkicknow link=board=general;num=1056931694;start=15#20 date=06/30/03 at 16:00:00]<br>That's very interesting! I've just recently been digging up some stuff on libertarians, trying to get a bead on what they are about. They are very big on individualism, which I like. A lot of their ideas sound good to me, but I can see if they were taken to extremes it would be going in the direction of anarchy. However, at least on the surface, it seems to me that they rely on logic and common sense more than Republicans and Democrats do.[/quote]<br>They most certainly do. The Libertarian Party is like any other party in the sense that it has its conservative and liberal factions. I've voted Libertarian since '96, and I'm an unabashed capitalist, as are many others. The anarchists only represent a percentage of the party.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:07 pm 
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Surely FZ was an American patriot, just like Michael Moore is (I love 'em both). They are good patriots, unlike people like Pat Robertson, Hermann Rumsfeld, Adolf Wolfowitz or that Eva Rice-bitch. These are bad Patriots.<br><br>But there are still worse: you have those and blow up in your face and pcst a million a piece. That''s a really bad patriot.

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