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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:50 pm 
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Hubert Sumlin

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:26 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Long Live Stu!

Is this one of those things that is extra funny because I do not "get it"?

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:30 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Robert Johnson ripped off Skip James!

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ONLY CAL!

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:50 am 
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Milton Bradley, yes yes, I love Hubert.
Aside from being the player that he was, he always seemed just... cool and approachable.

You may have seen this thing, if not - please do. It is an interesting and fun watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQf5pTzshug

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:09 am 
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Not sure if this is considered "pure" or "fake"? I just know what I like.

Albert Collins - Ice Pickin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1zr4hji6w

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:58 am 
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lapsed maps wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Long Live Stu!

Is this one of those things that is extra funny because I do not "get it"?

I don't know if its funny. Maybe.
Stu used to hang out on the Z-Chat more than anybody. Since Stu was in Chat seemingly non-stop, it became more worthwhile to check out the Chat often and so, fairly regularly, up to a good dozen or so people would show up... and The Blues became a regularly discussed topic because Stu was such a fan of The Blues. But, he would comment on a rock band playing The Blues as easily as any of The Proper Blues. I have a chip on my shoulder about Proper Blues. Stu didn't. I miss talking about The Blues with Stu. I haven't talked about The Blues in a long time.

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11591#p270264

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:49 am 
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And now for some Mississippi Gary...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm6M7pj2tT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN3oLwpEwus

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:56 am 
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Philostopher wrote:
Not sure if this is considered "pure" or "fake"? I just know what I like.

Albert Collins - Ice Pickin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1zr4hji6w

Yessss.

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:57 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I have a chip on my shoulder about Proper Blues.

Ok now I'll just come right out and say it, I don't get this.
As in - what do you mean?/please elaborate.

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:23 am 
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lapsed maps wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Robert Johnson ripped off Skip James!

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ONLY CAL!


I didn't say it...Stu did.


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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:32 am 
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Ok, well hell... I am living out these wonderful little Stuisms through YOU!

Whatever gets me home in 1 piece, right!?

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:37 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlDhJ0ghTg4

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:38 am 
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lapsed maps wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
...I have a chip on my shoulder about Proper Blues...

Ok now I'll just come right out and say it, I don't get this.
As in - what do you mean?/please elaborate.

Well, I think you probably know something of it, but maybe not with details put together. Many people have no problem saying shit like "real blues can only be played by a black man", which I find to be ridiculous. But, the idea is backed by many institutions in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways. I worked at Buddy Guy's Legends in Chicago years ago. You have no idea how many times I'd hear about a band that was "pretty good for white guys". Now, deuce looks white in his videos and plays great, but the thinking still follows the same logic that there is a correct way and an incorrect way that has been established. Deuce made his own resonater - awesome! There are people who consider this a proper instrument for the blues. I don't care if the blues are played on a kindergarten xylophone if that makes the art that the artist is striving for.
I recognize that these ideas didn't come out of thin air. Many poor black blues players had their songs covered by white artists with better backing who got rich off the poor guy's songs. Many white blues players suck, often "playing by the rules" but not having their own identity. Personally, I think its stupid to try to sound like someone else, but lots of bands do this, so what's the harm?
It hit me worst when I read Living Blues Magazine. I think this was because they are trying to preserve what they consider to be cultural heritage for southern blacks, but what I consider paint for future artists. I don't see why one has to be torn down to build the other up. Maybe Living Blues Magazine is better these days. I haven't read it in many years. I just looked it up and they have an online version.
Once someone accepts that only black people can play the blues, then it is easy to ignore a white band, to say that a guitar or harmonica solo isn't good because it doesn't sound like a black guy is playing it. Can't a white guy play a song that sounds like himself? Personally, I think it is silly when I hear a white guy sing a line like "Lawd have mercy" when they would never use those words outside of a song, but if thats what he wants to do, fine! Is black the only way to sound? I hate that kind of limiting mentality that shuts people out of the game for not playing by rules that are made by those already in the game. To say that any art form has rules that make it proper or improper, to me, is to consider it dead and ready to be put in glass. We can still play tennis with a net rather than without. But, let the artist determine what the appropriate height is, whether we play on grass or with bright fuzzy balls! :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:00 am 
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Now-a-days in Chicago, it seems that there is more of an acceptance for multi-cultural blues musician's and bands. Buddy Guy has been promoting teenage blues guitar wiz Quinn Sullivan, very much a white Irish kid.

Gov't Mule is a blues-based rock band that has gained the respect of the black blues community. There are some nice collaborations with Little Milton.


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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:10 am 
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Of course Whites can play the Blues they just named it Hillbilly.
And all the different Blues styles are just Instrument Tuned different for Slide use mostly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147kS8O59Qs
Tom Clarence Ashley & Gwen Foster: House Of The Rising Sun (1933)

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:12 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Now-a-days in Chicago, it seems that there is more of an acceptance for multi-cultural blues musician's and bands. Buddy Guy has been promoting teenage blues guitar wiz Quinn Sullivan, very much a white Irish kid.

Gov't Mule is a blues-based rock band that has gained the respect of the black blues community. There are some nice collaborations with Little Milton.

Wow, I'm surprised yer taking the status quo on this SB. Imo, teenage blues is an oxymoron. Alot of blues musicians consider multi-cultural blues to not be blues. Maybe they would wink and say the blues had a baby, ya know, patronizingly. Sorry, that's my opinion. But, I didn't mean to disparage Buddy Guy or his bar. I was quoting patrons of the bar. The people who work there are only giving in to societal ignorance when they say, literally, that in order to stay afloat, they need a certain percentage of their acts to be black. There are a bunch of blues bars in Chicago. The tourists are going to go to the one with the black guy playing that night. Is that racist? Probably. What can be done to change this? I dunno.

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:32 am 
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Environment is far more influential than race in determining a persons personality.


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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:43 am 
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The new Legends is a nice place. I like Kingston Mines, even though it has a lot more drunk young people hanging around. B.L.U.E.S on Halstead is closing it's doors if it hasn't already. Rosa's is another venue I've been to.

In my opinion, I think it's been the natural progression for the blues to evolve into different styles, country blues, jazz blues, Texas blues, funk blues, folk blues, gospel/soul. Certainly there are purists who will always gravitate towards the lineage.

Probably like most people here, I discovered the blues through Jimi Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Page, Johnny Winter, Roy Buchanan, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Alvin Lee, which led to the likes of Muddy Waters, the three Kings, Buddy Guy/with and without Junior Wells and so on. In the 80's growing up as a teenager and early 20 something, when much of my immediate peer group were listening to hairdo metal bands and pop, I was listening to Albert Collins. I wouldn't consider myself a purist because my musical tastes since childhood gravitated towards prog-rock and fusion....but that's for another debate about jazz.

Most of the Chicago blues clubs I've been to had more white people in attendance than black. Are there any predominantly black blues clubs left in Chi-Town? Whatever happened to the Checkerboard Lounge?


To dm's point, cultural differences are also a factor to consider along with environment. On a whole, women and minorities make less money than their Caucasian male counterparts, often for the same job with equivalent experience, so poverty also plays a big role. Racism is still very much in our culture unfortunately. The victims being portrayed as the aggressors is the status quo for that debate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:57 am 
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I bet because of the Internet 100% of the population know about Old Blue's Artists
And out of that 100% only 10% would if not for The Honkeys
Probably know Chuck Berry for My dingaling

FZ named some good Blues Players can't recall them all though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKS08o-HqDM
A Master Class with Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Part 1: Concert
Sounds like he jumped on the Saints Wagon but who gives a fuck :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:11 am 
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I believe that environment dictates culture. Environment comes first.


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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:22 am 
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Here ya go call it what you want, sadly Norton died a couple years ago.......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68d5d8uBobs

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:31 am 
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I'd call it kinda pretty. Why do you call it the blues?

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:23 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I'd call it kinda pretty. Why do you call it the blues?

Because it gives him the blues?

Would a blues purist pay to see... lets say, Paul Butterfield and Buddy Guy or Junior Wells and Buddy Guy? Which one? That's a tough call either way, one just has some vanilla in it. Both are just as good at playing the blues and both have their own unique styles. So RK you're suggesting that a blues purist would opt for the all black blues rather than the one tainted with a white guy? I guess electric blues is not really blues either. Just the Mississippi delta acoustic is pure roots blues then?

I thought the blues came outta gospel via the cotton fields. If you were a slave back then, the only music you ever heard was a white mans music or some traditional songs from their homeland in Africa that was sung in the fields. So the 1st blues men were influenced by a white slave culture and it's music.

That would certainly give me da blues! For years as a teen I thought Mose Allison was black. Listening to Paul Butterfield with your eye's closed would you assume he's black, of course. Interesting stuff RK. I dig da blues, but I think anyone who can really feel it, has a shot at singing the blues. That and practice, practice, then live it, will get ya there if ya have it in ya! That would make all colours a person could be, a blues purist. :wink:

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Last edited by KAPT.KIIIRK on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Yep, the blues is a feeling as they say... but it is also a style. For example, you wouldn't say that a piece is classical because it makes ya feel classic, right? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The Blues.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:33 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Yep, the blues is a feeling as they say... but it is also a style. For example, you wouldn't say that a piece is classical because it makes ya feel classic, right? ;)

...and rock doesn't make ya feel like rolling stoned. :wink: :mrgreen:

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