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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:01 am 
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any of you guys search for all of zappa's musicians?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:58 pm 
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I'm surprised you think that the possibility of 2 counts of rape against a minor is nothing to worry about as he "has most likely paid is debt to society".

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/9/1/s261
This a link to the contents of Cal. penal code 261, note subsection (2), this is the charge. The (2) next to 261 on his listing does not refer to number of counts, but the section of code he was found in violation of. This count in no way refers to a crime against a minor.

An unfounded allegation that anyone has raped a child belittles the seriousness of child rape.

You jumped to the conclusion that he was guilty of raping a child (possibly 2) and said so twice previously in this thread based on your misunderstanding of the information contained on the page.
All the rest seems to be a personal attack on me, as such I will ignore it. With the exception of clarifying. I at no time said he was innocent, I at no time said he was guilty, I refused to jump to the conclusion that you did without further information. I also took the opportunity to inform anyone reading this thread of some observations regarding the current nature of sex crime law and my opinions regarding it. I viewed these things as separate, and in no way baring on the issue of Napoleon Murphy Brock's guilt or innocence.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:59 pm 
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one of the uglies wrote:
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I'm surprised you think that the possibility of 2 counts of rape against a minor is nothing to worry about as he "has most likely paid is debt to society".

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/9/1/s261
This a link to the contents of Cal. penal code 261, note subsection (2), this is the charge. The (2) next to 261 on his listing does not refer to number of counts, but the section of code he was found in violation of. This count in no way refers to a crime against a minor.

An unfounded allegation that anyone has raped a child belittles the seriousness of child rape.

You jumped to the conclusion that he was guilty of raping a child (possibly 2) and said so twice previously in this thread based on your misunderstanding of the information contained on the page.
All the rest seems to be a personal attack on me, as such I will ignore it. With the exception of clarifying. I at no time said he was innocent, I at no time said he was guilty, I refused to jump to the conclusion that you did without further information. I also took the opportunity to inform anyone reading this thread of some observations regarding the current nature of sex crime law and my opinions regarding it. I viewed these things as separate, and in no way baring on the issue of Napoleon Murphy Brock's guilt or innocence.


look man, i never attacked anyone. you're the one attacking me basically for informing people on this forum about it. I haven't done anything wrong.

It's not an unfounded allegation, it says rape by force and i suspected either rightly or wrongly that it could have been the rape of a minor....nowhere on the site does it say that it's the rape of an adult.

Whether i am right or i am wrong in relation to the age of the victim or victims, the fact remains that it's not an unfounded allegation and in no way whatsoever belittles the seriousness of child rape, i actually find that a shocking thing to say, completely shocking and utterly callous. I find it hard to think of anything that could belittle child rape, or anything that could make someone even suggest it.

I salute your campaigning on the unfairness of the sex crime laws, but really it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, anything i have said or Napoleon Murphy Brock.

Again, i never jumped to any conclusion, i merely relayed information that was available on the site without comment. And for the reasons stated in the previous post that you choose to ignore, i believe there must be at least some evidence for him to be on that site. Nowhere have i said i think he's guilty, only that they must have some evidence for him to be on that site and i still think that's the case. If it wasn't, he wouldn't on a government database.

you obviously have some issues with sex crime laws for whatever reason and that's none of my business. But please don't try and twist what i say, just because you happen to disagree with me.

I apologise for getting the information wrong in regards to the (2) in the bracket, but i'm not from the USA and unfamiliar with how they categorise some things. In the UK that would mean 2 counts, i sincerely apologise. Still, rape is rape and whether it's once, twice or 30 times. it's still fucking deeply wrong.


edit - (2)Where it is accomplished against a person's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another.

that makes it ok then

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:11 pm 
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here's where i got the information about it being for child sex offenders. Though it says it's for both sex offenders and child-victim sex offenders. So i guess we'll have to give the benefit of doubt on that.

The public Sex Offender Registration information is compiled from the state registry of sex offenders and child-victim offenders.

http://www.nsopw.gov/Core/StandaloneCon ... .Aspx?Ohio

I still believe that i seen on a section of the site that it dealt "primarily" with child-victim offenders, but until i find it, i'll completely withdraw that to make you happy.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:29 pm 
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I'm curious as to why poster central scrutinizer felt the need to create a thread on this matter?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:24 am 
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brainpang wrote:
I'm curious as to why poster central scrutinizer felt the need to create a thread on this matter?


well, i think that's pretty obvious. it's a zappa related issue. Only a moron could fail to see that.

If you think i shouldn't have shared the info, i'd like to know why. A more pertinent question should be, why are people on this forum so vehemently defending at best a suspected rapist?

I'm sorry though, maybe it would have been better if i started a thread asking what was NMB's shoe size, or favourite dance routine, or favourite little horse. Stuff like that is so much more important.

I wasn't the first person who felt the need to share the info, the U.S government thought it was serious enough to share the info, so why don't you ask them?

It's quite obvious that some people on this forum, feel that it's more serious that NMB's name has been called into question, than rape. I'm sorry but i disagree with that.

So i hope that answers your curiosty. But please tell me, i'm curious to know as to why you think i shouldn't have posted it?

Do you believe all rapists should benefit from anonymity, or is it just ex zappa band members?

Do you have any compassion at all for the victims of rape? As it would seem not, when you can ask such a flippant question.

Again, this isn't some idle gossip. Once it gets to the stage that your name, face and aliases (all 5 of them) are listed on a government database of known sex offenders. Then for me at least, it goes beyond the realms of gossip and into areas where there must at least be some evidence and a case. Like i stated previously. Surely he would have his name removed if there was no evidence. And if he didn't know he was on it, i'm pretty sure someone will have informed him by now. So we can check over the course of the next few months to look for it coming down.

If he doesn't request it comes down, or it isn't taken down. Then we can only assume there's some guilt there.

And a giant FUCK YOU to anyone who believes i shouldn't have posted this, my conscience is clear, because i have done nothing wrong. Only posted information that was already widely available to people who have a vested interest in the man in question.

If i'm proven wrong in this, then i will openly apologise....let's see. I doubt my detractors will do the same though :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:20 am 
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Calm down, Batman, as I said I was curious, not here to condemn you (that seems to be your specialty).

The legal purpose of the Registery is not to play crimefighter, get ones jollies or generate gossip. It was specifically created so that one may determine if an individual within their community may pose a risk to themselves and/or their family so one may quietly keep their distance if they so choose. Until you posted this I was unaware one could even do a search that is not based upon a zip code. In my State it is illegal to reproduce information found on the website. It is considered a form of Harrassment.

The Registery is a very touchy matter here in the States and is not to be taken or used lightly.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:20 pm 
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I will pass no judgement here other than to say you do not get on the list unless you were convicted, also if you do not spend time in prison (I do not know if NMB did), you pleaded down from a worse offence. I hope this is one of those things that are unfortunate but happen, but until I have more facts I will just say I am very dissapointed. It could be a result of the nature of the rock 'n' Roll beast with the groupies and those that pass for legal tender. Do we have any one out there that has resources that could get us more facts?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Quote:
A more pertinent question should be, why are people on this forum so vehemently defending at best a suspected rapist?
It probably isn't worth mentioning this, but this could be taken as an implication that anyone who dares to disagree with you, or even dares to ask for more information is them self suspect.

I also pointed out that some people dislike being called victims.

Other than that it was all personal shit, I have decided I don't want to leave it hanging on the interwebs for all eternity.

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Last edited by one of the uglies on Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:18 pm 
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Do you often bait people into arguing with you, just to then flash your sad past as a trump card? Perhaps if you feel the need to do this with virtual strangers on an internet forum you still have a lot to work out. Get a better therapist dood.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:17 pm 
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I'm sure that TheCentralScrutinizer thinks I bare him some animosity or ill will, but I don't. I don't think he meant any harm by posting the info about NMB, I also don't think he meant any harm and genuinely believed that the website in question was solely dedicated to child victims. And I respect his right to his opinion about my words and what I say, or how I say it. And he has just as much right as me to say anything he pleases, as far as I'm concerned. For that matter so does everyone. But I don't have to agree with him, and he doesn't have to agree with me. And a disagreement should not be grounds for raising speculation that someone is a criminal.
Don't confine people to victim status, sometimes, people want to go beyond that, and at that time it is important to realize that the status of victim can be just as binding as the reason someone gave you that status in the first place.
I actually imagine he's a very nice person, who cares a lot about victim's rights. And that is a good thing.
I hope that is a more tactful way of saying what I was trying to say.

I apologize for being really brutally honest. And I apologize for being an asshole.
I'm sometimes a little socially awkward, and I'm sorry.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Do you often bait people into arguing with you, just to then flash your sad past as a trump card? Perhaps if you feel the need to do this with virtual strangers on an internet forum you still have a lot to work out. Get a better therapist dood.

I didn't intentionally bait him, I just disagreed with him.
What can I say about shrinks, "The mystery man came over..."
I read some psychology books way back, and that worked out better than actual therapy for me. Therapy works for some people, for others it's a waste of time, I believe I fall into the latter. I haven't seen a shrink for years, and right now I'm happy enough just to spend time with my wife.
I'm not sure what you mean by sad past. I didn't think it was a sad past, I thought it was a past. I don't consider my past to be any worse than that of anyone else. I said I forgave my father long ago, that's no lie. I wouldn't be who I am now if it weren't for him, I would be someone else, or at least I would have different memories, everything that I perceive would be different. He didn't break me, he tried with all his might, with every vicious manipulative fiber of his being to make me be what he wanted me to be, but he failed. He hit me so hard I flew across the room, I eventually got up, he beat me with a belt buckle, it healed. He got off on watching me suffer, so what. Yes he made me beg because I was in pain, but he never forced me to respect him, or to give up my own ideas, my sense of self.
I said I'm a touch cynical, he taught me how to be cynical, he didn't mean to, but that's how it worked out. He was also the first person to get me to try sushi, I have loved sushi ever since. Actually it was the beginning of a life long fascination with both traditional and modern Japanese culture. Do these things sound silly, maybe, but these are the things that make a life.
It's not like life ended for me back then, I'm still here, that's the point. I'm here, I can love, I can feel loved. This is my time, and I can do anything I want with it, the choice is mine. That is what it means to be free. Because I am free. And I hold that very dear, because I wasn't always free.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:01 am 
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There, there. I think you are taking this forum way, way too seriously. Common mistake. Meanwhile, you are getting blood all over the carpet. I suppose this is a good place to do it anonymously, but not a good place to obtain resolution. May I direct you to a good counselor or a 12-step program?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:12 am 
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Slappy Nappy

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:28 pm 
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How can anybody judge someone without the facts...Do you even know if its the same NMB..Shit there is a dozen (my name) in my area alone. And you kinda paint a picture of NMB fucking Jon Bennet. This could of just been a underage groupie yelling rape after the fact.. To many possibilities before I could judge anyone. Rape is not to be downplayed here.. If it was a child not a minor..NMB would be rotting in jail.. Not doing some PO show. Crimes against anyone suck..(victims,families etc.) But this registry was meant for the knowledge of who is in your neighborhood..Not meant to be a witch hunt. We all have skeletons in our closet and some do not equivocate to rape...But whats next registers for people who have broken any law? Its the system that is at fault..releasing criminals that should rot in jail. this registry was named after a young woman that was raped and murdered by a released offender...Approx 6 months after his release! We just released a known terrorist back to his country..It won't surprise me if he kills again! Shame on the system...If you cut of the penis of the rapist..There would be a lot less rapes, Public executions of a murderer.. There would be a lot less murder..Get the picture! Our system sucks! that's it!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:54 pm 
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thepoodlebites wrote:
...Do you even know if its the same NMB..

Well, there IS a photo.....


Attachments:
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1869525001521.jpg [ 28.87 KiB | Viewed 3625 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:16 pm 
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thepoodlebites wrote:
How can anybody judge someone without the facts...Do you even know if its the same NMB..Shit there is a dozen (my name) in my area alone. And you kinda paint a picture of NMB fucking Jon Bennet. This could of just been a underage groupie yelling rape after the fact.. To many possibilities before I could judge anyone. Rape is not to be downplayed here.. If it was a child not a minor..NMB would be rotting in jail.. Not doing some PO show. Crimes against anyone suck..(victims,families etc.) But this registry was meant for the knowledge of who is in your neighborhood..Not meant to be a witch hunt. We all have skeletons in our closet and some do not equivocate to rape...But whats next registers for people who have broken any law? Its the system that is at fault..releasing criminals that should rot in jail. this registry was named after a young woman that was raped and murdered by a released offender...Approx 6 months after his release! We just released a known terrorist back to his country..It won't surprise me if he kills again! Shame on the system...If you cut of the penis of the rapist..There would be a lot less rapes, Public executions of a murderer.. There would be a lot less murder..Get the picture! Our system sucks! that's it!!!

I agree with everything you said but one, and I'll try to give my reason. I disagree with the idea that a first time offender capitol punishment system would work.
First the moral dilemma about capitol punishment. If as a society we put to death one innocent person, then we all become guilty of murder.
Now for the practical, fact based, to the best of my knowledge reason.
I wish I could believe the answer was that simple, but unfortunately I don't think it is. Almost all statistical data points to harsher punishment having virtually no added deterrent affect.
And my real concern is that in the near future there won't be any survivors to tell their stories. As it will never be possible to catch all the offenders, and it will never be possible to deter all the offenders that have not yet harmed anyone, if the punishment is more harsh so too will the crime itself become more harsh. In other words, a dead victim can never testify against you, and a dead victim can never attempt to recover. Further the most recent statistics point to the average age of victims becoming younger, where as the average age used to be in the teens, now it is preteen and the change appears to have happened mostly through the increased rape of toddlers. Again, this seems to be a harsher more physically destructive trend, based on the perception by potential offenders of more severe punishments. I can't say for certain that a gradient system would be more efficient, but so far I can find no evidence of improvement through ZERO tolerance policy.
Is it possible that the unintended consequences of tougher and tougher sex crime laws will result in more and more dead women and children. This is the convergence that I can not help but to see coming in the future. Also, this would appear in the media as the problem getting better, because there would be fewer and fewer victims coming forward. But on an individual suffering level that can not so easily be measured I fear the future is extremely bleak.

I see night and day stories about how someone raped a child, and there are always stories about how the laws are getting tougher and tougher, and who in this country hasn't heard of Dateline, and all that? And still unending stories about it, and I begin to wonder if there isn't a secondary unintended consequence. When will a percentage of people begin to wonder what is so great about children? Why do these people risk so much? People that never thought about it before. At that moment all of this turns into one giant cliche..."Don't press the red button!"
I hope I'm wrong. It would be nice to be wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:30 pm 
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sabrinaIII wrote:
There, there. I think you are taking this forum way, way too seriously. Common mistake. Meanwhile, you are getting blood all over the carpet. I suppose this is a good place to do it anonymously, but not a good place to obtain resolution. May I direct you to a good counselor or a 12-step program?

Resolution obtained years ago, and you may not, thank you very much :lol:

BTW,I'm not anonymous here, I'm on the internet :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:46 am 
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Oh, you just like to go on and on. My mistake!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:28 pm 
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First off I had currently saw statistics stating the opposite of what you said. Crimes against children have dropped continually over the years. Its just in the media more. I do believe the crime fits the punishment. In this country you can do more time for tax evasion than murder? Look at all the states were they allow concealment of a weapon against the states that don't...Crime is higher in the states were they don't allow you to conceal and carry..(Its a deterrent..That's a fact!) Canada has more guns per person than the US and almost no gun crimes (Why?) The same would apply on punishment. There would be a lot less crime if they wouldn't just slap the hand of the offender..then release them back into a naive society. Crime is always going to happen. Innocent people will get fucked by the system..But stiffen the penalties and it will act as a deterrent! At worst they would rot in Jail..Not back on the streets to rape,rob, and murder some more! Rehab does not work! and if it does who gives a fuck..They had there chance in society..they blew it. Why risk innocent people on the failure of the system. Fuck the lawyers who defend this scum too! And by the way...If my father had done that shit to me..I would of knocked his fucking head off!...(Pleaded mental and physical abuse..Then I would take my chances that I would get released on some fucked up slacked laws) This is how our system works. No offense! It's just my sarcastic view!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:44 pm 
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sabrinaIII wrote:
Oh, you just like to go on and on. My mistake!


Condescending Cretin




thepoodlebites wrote:
I would need more info before I would voice an opinion.


Hypocritical I'd have to say
reason?: you'd label MJ a pedo without conviction, yet in NMB's case you'd need more infos .. hypocritical

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:39 am 
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stride wrote:
sabrinaIII wrote:
Oh, you just like to go on and on. My mistake!


Condescending Cretin




thepoodlebites wrote:
I would need more info before I would voice an opinion.


Hypocritical I'd have to say
reason?: you'd label MJ a pedo without conviction, yet in NMB's case you'd need more infos .. hypocritical

What the fuck! the child came forward and when they were gonna describe MJ penis, MJ bailed..I know nothing about NMB case..I'm not defending NMB..How is that hypocritical! ( look up the definition! ) I saw enough of MJ's bullshit..I would never pay off some fuck if they accused me of pedo.. When I see more of NMB case I'll voice... That isn't hypocritical you idiot! Read my last post..I don't give a fuck who it is..If you commit a crime you should get punished.. The worse the crime..The worse the punishment. Money gets you a (Get out of jail free card) in most cases in our fucked up system!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:10 am 
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thepoodlebites wrote:
stride wrote:
sabrinaIII wrote:
Oh, you just like to go on and on. My mistake!


Condescending Cretin




thepoodlebites wrote:
I would need more info before I would voice an opinion.


Hypocritical I'd have to say
reason?: you'd label MJ a pedo without conviction, yet in NMB's case you'd need more infos .. hypocritical

What the fuck! the child came forward and when they were gonna describe MJ penis, MJ bailed..I know nothing about NMB case..I'm not defending NMB..How is that hypocritical! I saw enough of MJ's bullshit..I would never pay off some fuck if they accused me of pedo.. When I see more of NMB case I'll voice... That isn't hypocritical you idiot! Read my last post..I don't give a fuck who it is..If you commit a crime you should get punished.. The worse the crime..The worse the punishment. Money gets you a (Get out of jail free card) in most cases in our fucked up system!


I'm no MJ fan but let’s get the record straight most of the children have now retracted since they grew up and the one kid and his mother that were the thrust of the last case we're trying to blackmail MJ before trial and they we're found unbelievable by the jury and the judge in the case. I am not sure what MJ's motivations were, but I am sure it had to do with his lack of a childhood that made him unable to differentiate between what was appropriate behavior with children.
As to NMB I need more info, but is obvious he pleaded down and is guilty of something. Personally I would fight and take the chance on conviction before I would except any plea that would require me to register it is the kiss of death.
TPB I like most of what you have to say on the forum (not all) and you seem like a good straight up man, but I have to agree that what you are saying here is a little at odds with some of your previous posting, especially dealing with underage girls (I understand some was joking). But it is obvious that NMB either committed a rape, got himself in a situation that he could not prove innocents in, or was caught with an underage girl, thus statutory.
Like I said before I would like to know more details since I know some horror stories concerning the registry, but I am disappointed.
Please TPB no personal attacks I don’t know you but I think I like you, I am just weighing in, let’s keep it civil please.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:47 pm 
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Man, heavy shit being talked about.

I really don't want to keep this thread going, but I thought that I would make one point. As most of you know, Frank was arrested after he was solicited to make an audio sex tape at Studio Z, and spent 10 days in jail circa 1963. I reckon he would have been put on that list.

I don't know anything about this subject, and with regards to NMB, no one here does either. This post is very Nancy Grace, and should be deleted.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
SLAPPY NAPPY :P

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