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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:27 pm 
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https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/search?q=fr ... i=boutique

Well I'm still to get the exact info on these hi-res recordings and most of the digital offerings seem to be CD rips which is pointless but oh joyous joy for the hi-res offerings.

Anyone got any feedback on the hi-res recordings?

ROCK ON fellow fans.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:43 am 
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Well not being able to wait for something I've been after for about 20 years now since 24bit 192KHz digital recording became commercially viable for the audio listener and experimenter I just had to have a Frank Zappa analogue album properly sampled in full high resolution audio.

Be aware, that not all of the albums offered appear to be in full hi-res 24bit 192KHz audio(correct me if I'm mistaken) but there's a nice selection on the qobuz site that are. A very special thanks to ZFT for making this possible, it's been a long time in the making.

As I had the Ryco CD release and now the ZFT CD release of Joe's Garage but not a vinyl edition(local record stores sold out before I got to it.) here on offer from Qobuz was a 24bit 192KHz offering complete with PDF booklet. Also another terrific bonus is that qobuz offers infinite downloads for the albums you purchase. They also offer a streaming service for something like $300 a year which gives you discounts on your hi-res downloads etc but honestly and call me old school but I like to purchase my albums and listen to them as many times as I like whenever I want in what ever environment I want to. That means I'm not always connected to the internet but I can transport my hi-fi walkman(yeah it's an MP3 player that can also play hi-res wav files but you know what I mean, again old school and yes i did rewind my tapes back in the day with a pencil to save the batteries in my walkman.) So the download of the files is great.

By the looks of things you can expect a typical 45min analogue album(typical vinyl play time.) to be around 2.6 - 2.7gigs per record. So it was no surprise that Joes Garage being a triple album release is just over 8 Gigs in size. With storage being so cheap these days, surely it shouldn't be an issue to anyone anymore but the large file size will mean higher wait times than say grabbing some mp3's etc when downloading your albums. Or if you prefer, YES you can stream the hi-res audio only but if you don't have a high enough internet speed you may experience the odd drop out. Personally I'd rather not take the risk. (I'm certain Frank Zappa himself would be proud to know that his dreams of offering albums over the internet eventually became a reality. In the late 80's it just wasn't possible at a suitable quality level.)

Anyway, I chose Joe's Garage as I've always found the albums to be a great example of Franks amazing audio engineering skills. There's a lot going on in these recordings and for this fan there kind of like the Rock album equivalent of 'The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy.' in terms of story telling and attention to sonic detail. With narration, music, singing and a host of sound effects mixed in with a great array of instruments and look it's just technical brilliance from track to track.

What I noticed on initial listening was that normally I would skip to the ultra famous 'Joes Garage' track 2 to sample the audio but I loved the intro from the central scrutinizer track so much I just kept on listening along and in the words of the great Frank Zappa 'WOWY ZOWY.' Instantly sounding better bass and keyboards had more detail, there was also a far better brightness to the colour(color in America) of the xylophone and other percussive devices, snare sounds the best I've ever heard from the recording.

Then came a personal favourite, that great track Joe's Garage but I was suddenly concerned I was listening to not a transfer from the master tapes but a record sampling as the s'es are featuring that ssss sound which results from a slightly worn stylus. Weird that it doesn't sound that way on the first track(maybe dust pickup by the stylus during the transfer) not sure but somewhat frustrating as I don't get that from the CD version.

It would be nice if ZFT could confirm if Qobuz had access to the master tapes or if these are simply vinyl transfers????

Fembot In A Wet T-Shirt sounded amazing, alas again those annoying ssss sounds from emphasized s's on any vocals. Annoying as the instruments are sounding so incredibly good. (If it's just a vinyl transfer, I'll be chasing up a vinyl copy for sure.) Still it's the possibility of hearing Frank's actual master tapes that excites me without having a degraded version. I'm king of remembering when I first got King Crimsons Islands on CD and sure enough it was just an evil record company vinyl transfer because there were issues with the master tapes at the time.

Continuing on and oh here it is again listening to 'Why doessss it hurt when I pee.' 'Got it from the toilet ssseat.' However all instruments are sounding amazing. Maybe I'm insane and just hearing more detail than I'd ever heard before and perhaps Frank was having problems with pop filters on microphones or something. No, I couldn't believe that for a second. What version of the recording am I listening to here???

Now we get to Dong Work For Yuda and the central scrutinizer always has had a bit of a muffled sound because it's supposed to, perhaps the other vocals were supposed to have the slightly fuzzed sound on the singing parts and I've never noticed it on a CD before now. Someone please enlighten me. Without a doubt Ike Willis is sounding incredible in this recording. S turned into ssss not so bad on this track??

Way better guitar sound on 'Keep It Greasy.' Like the CD recordings, I always wished it had been bumped up a bit in the recording but I understand that Frank was keeping the vocals as the lead which is the point in a song. The slaps on the bass and guitar are incredible. This song can lube me all day, I love it.

Admittedly I've skipped to 'Watermelon in Easter Hay' now as I'm dying to hear that awesome solo. Who gives a F&*K anyway? I do Frank, I do. Absolute perfection how the percussion is in perfect time with the guitar solo and oh the terrific use of effects throughout the piece just send tingles up and down my spine. A masterpiece of epic proportions.

Yikes I'm going to start a mega rant here, needless to say the quality is without a doubt the best I've ever heard but it would be nice to learn about exactly how they made the transfer and from what source.

ZFT, PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT HERE!!!!!

If it is indeed from the analogue master tapes, I'll be purchasing every single other 24 bit offering here as I'm really impressed already by this recording but as I've never heard the vinyl of this great recording it's hard to know the comparison.

Bongo Fury and Sheik Yerbouti, not to mention Hot Rats will be next on the list. I'm excited to notice the 6CD set of Hot Rats is on offer, so hopefully ZFT gave them the full 24bit 192KHz samplings of those recordings so we can all finally enjoy them in all there glory.

Seriously if you don't hear the difference between a CD and these recordings then I regret to inform you that there's something wrong with your ears here.

The album was listened to through an Ibasso DX50 and my OPPO PM-3 headphones for the record(look those up, there not slouches in the audio quality dept. I'm not sure if you can get an Ibasso DX50 anymore but the good news is there's even better units out now, one that even allows you to select which audio dac you want to listen to your recording through. Now that's progress and something I don't think any digital audio playback unit has ever offered before. I just mention it as the DX50 has been a good friend for over 7 years, survived drops and slams and still keeps on going delivering wonderful audio quality through it's Wolfson WM8740 24bit DAC chip. I'll bet the newer versions of DAC's now used are even better.)

In any case, I do have to commend ZFT for getting the 24bit audio releases of Frank's recordings rolling. Could anyone think of finer recordings that rightfully deserve this quality treatment???


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:57 am 
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The PDF has this info which is also to be found on the CD release:

2012:Vaultmeisterment & Analog Transfers by Joe Travers, March 2012, UMRK. DSD Signal path: Ampex ATR-102/Meitner Mark II A/D Converter via Sonoma Digital Workstation, courtesy Gus Skinas, Super Audio Center.

Are the qobuz files, the exact same ones that came from this process is perhaps the question to answer? In which case I can only assume all the other 24bit offerings will be as well.

Again looking forward to any light that can be shed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:32 am 
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Hmmm checking the specs of the Meitner Mark II A/D Converter, reveals that the unit is capable of DSD or PCM. It's cited as being one of the greatest DSD encoders ever made and that PCM is stunning also. There's always been this debate with Super Audio CD's where the DSD recordings where often picked on for being converted to PCM anyway by many Super Audio CD players. I've heard both and as long as the PCM is a high rate, I honestly couldn't hear the difference from a DSD recording to a good PCM. Some one please point me to a good set of examples if I'm mistaken.

So I'm guessing due to the pass to the Sonomo digital work station it was used to deliver a high quality direct PCM transfers in WAV file format, not a DSD transfer then a conversion to PCM correct? Just curious to know about the process as the most that get's talked about is baking the tapes to ensure no sticking which can cause damage and the dreaded tape breakage factor on the analogue factor, then of course the Ampex 102 takes the tape information and sends it's analogue data for conversion through the Meitner unit. After that, things seem to be smoke and mirrors.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:13 am 
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Well Qobuz, just got back to me and here was there response.

Hello Sean,

Thank you for your feedback, it is always very helpful for us to have our customer's suggestions!

We are indeed working on the enhancement of our search bar, with new filters. Our recordings in Hi Res are indeed from the original analogue tape master. Could you please send us the link of your purchase so we can escalate it to our quality control team ?

Kind Regards

Qobuz Customer Service

Centre d'activité de l'Ourcq, 45 rue Delizy - 93692 PANTIN-CEDEX

To think this was under way from a couple of months ago but had gotten lost in my 'Promotions' email tab which often get's plastered with advertising. Glad I eventually got to it.

Seriously fellow fans, this is it. Short of having the master tapes and all the VERY expensive gear that is required to play them back, this is the keys to the kingdom. There simply is NOTHING better than this. Yes I know, I love vinyl as well but it's inferior to the actual source as a medium. The dynamics straight up can't be captured on a vinyl. While the frequency response is pretty darn amazing on vinyl, it's absolutely spot on with a hi-res capture of the master tapes. Also unlike CD or even Super Audio CD, your not getting any compression bi-products. Essentially it's the best thing next to traveling in your time machine, sitting next to Frank, listening in the studio and getting what he wanted it to sound like(to be exact a decent stereo system with your EQ on a flat setting, allowing the recording to tell the story.)

By all means try and debate it but seriously you will be blown away. Worried you will loose the mystic 'warmth' of a vinyl. NOPE, in fact you get a better sound without the worry of cleaning a stylus all the time. No more worries about scratches or someone sliding the stylus across your beloved Vinyls anymore. I know, I know your remembering those adds about CD's years ago and the tragic reality that SACD became a flop as a format but this is WAY beyond that. Send me to the rubber room but it REALLY IS. If you can't hear the difference either your listening through a budget mono speaker or you have undergone some kind of weird hypnotism that's programmed you to only go out and reach for large plastic waffles.

The only downer would be that portable hi-definition players, such as the Ibasso or Iriver models etc are not cheap, but with one of these, you can plug it into any amp from you car player to your humble 50 year old stereo with a pair of RCA Aux jacks. Obviously you can also play it from your computer with a decent sound card(of which many motherboards now come equipped to handle hi-def files.) But whatever you do, connect the sound card to the amp your normally use to listen to your recordings through. That will tell the story the best for you. Most new Hi-Fi amps with HDMI inputs have DAC's built into them as well and normally these have a USB port on the front(that 77 box set stick for example just plugs into one of these and your playing practically instantly.) Transfer the hi-def albums to a USB stick etc and your away. The collection is also going to be a lot more compact and easy to transfer. Will I be getting rid of my beloved Zappa vinyls or CD's? Of course not as NOT ALL of the Zappa recordings currently available are in Hi-Res yet and who knows maybe never will be. So there's always going to be a need for both types of media.

I'd still put forward that Blu-Ray audio discs with the hi-res already on there would be awesome as well to save the download and transferring etc. It is a massive bonus the Qobuz gives you infinite access though so if someone steals your vinyls or discs etc, you can always download the hi-res files again. A bit of a pain but hey you will not loose your recordings.

Anyway, once again a special thanks to whoever is responsible for finally allowing us fans to hear these recordings in ALL there stunning sonic beauty.

PS. For the most part, the Joe's Garage album in hi-res(minus my quibbles and these could be a product of tape deterioration or perhaps equipment issues(high end tape machines just like your old cassette player do require good maintenance to keep performing to there best potential(remember the days of having to clean the heads due to some tapes causing oxide build ups etc. I'm sure it's no different with higher end reel to reel tape players.) was the most amazing sounding recording I'd heard of the album to date and I don't think I'll be reaching for the CD versions anytime soon(they will simply be collector pieces now.)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:26 am 
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Current list of Frank Zappa albums available in Hi-Res 24bit 192KHz format. (30 titles currently available.)

ZAPPA IN NEW YORK
HALLOWEEN 81 (I'll be curious if this is the COMPLETE concert or if you have to purchase the highlights in Hi-Res as well like the CD release.)
ORCHESTRAL FAVORITES
CHICAGO 78
SHEIK YERBOUTI
THE MOTHERS 1970
JOE'S GARAGE
SLEEP DIRT
HOT RATS
STUDIO TAN
ONE SIZE FITS ALL
APOSTROPHE'
ZOOT ALLURES
BURNT WEENIE SANDWHICH
THE CRUX OF THE BISCUIT
OVERNIGHT SENSATION
BONGO FURY
ABSOLUTELY FREE
CHUNGA'S REVENGE
OVER-NITE SENSATION
YOU ARE WHAT YOU IS
SHUT UP AND PLAY YOUR GUITAR
JUST ANOTHER BAND FROM LA
Ochestre Franck Tortiller (Shut Up'n Sing Yer Zappa) (Now this one is something I haven't heard before.)
TINSELTOWN REBELLION
Zappa the black page piano solo(???)
The Gumbo Variations live 2010(Dweezil Zappa)
Bobby Brown Dirty Fingers single(???)
WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH
Sometime in New York(The John Lennon release which finally credits Frank.)
There's also a classical Beethoven album that must also have a piece by Frank to be included.

The total available albums of material is 455, however just the list you see there is actually in hi-res. There are approximately 20 bootleg recordings amongst this lot which I haven't seen pop up anywere else in CD quality as well so that will be interesting to check out.

(Choice of WAV, FLAC. AIFF or ALAC formats is available), there's also the option of obtaining the recording in 24bit 96KHz and other lower quality formats to save on space if you so desire. (Handy if space is limited on your device etc.)

Check out Qobuz and enjoy.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:28 am 
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Apologies, there's actually only 29 or 26 if you don't include the hommage material. I included Overnite sensation twice(there's 2 different download sections for some reason. The same goes for a few of the other albums.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:43 am 
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A bit of an update and the reason there are multiple listings on Qobuz is that there are 4 different types of release. 3 of them being Hi-Definition and one of them being standard CD release quality.

Qobuz has now updated the download store to allow searching for 24bit/192KHz, 24bit/96KHz, 24bit/44.1KHz and 16bit/44.1KHz(CD quality) formats.

I'll just mention the list of albums on the 2 highest quality releases here as I feel there the ones worth getting excited about. Transfers of this quality are as close to the master tapes as your ever going to get without purchasing those actual master tapes(and trust me, this is NEVER HAPPENING.) I'd go so far as to say a 24bit/192KHz and even 24bit/96KHz sampling of the master tape is going to be essentially an exact duplication for all intents and purposes.

So just to update those lists correctly, there are actually 19 Frank Zappa 24bit/192KHz master tape sampled albums being:
Sheik Yerbouti
Joe's Garage
Hot Rats
Apostrophe'
One Size Fits All
Over-Nite Sensation
Zoot Allures
Burnt Weenie Sandwich
Bongo Fury
Chunga's Revenge
Shut Up and Play Your Guitar
Absolutely Free
You Are What You Is
Just Another Band From L.A.
Tinseltown Rebellion
Sleep Dirt
Studio Tan
Weasels Ripped My Flesh
plus a tribute album: Ochestre Franck Tortiller (Shut Up'n Sing Yer Zappa)

Then there are 28, 24bit/96KHz album releases being:
All of the above plus
Zappa In New York
Halloween 81 Box Set
Halloween 81 Highlights Album
Orchestral Favorites
Chicago 78
The Mothers 1970
The Crux Of The Biscuit
Trout Mask Replica (Engineered by Frank)
Some Time In New York (Frank finally credited for 2 of the tracks being his own works.)

Who knows what will be next but this is a great start and so far with Joe's Garage and Hot Rats alone, I'm gob smacked, looking forward to hearing Bongo fury in Hi-Res and am hoping the next release will be 'The Grand Wazoo.'(special request, a 24bit/192KHz sampling of the precious master tape/s please.)

Again, many thanks to ZFT for making these releases possible.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:29 am 
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These releases have been out for months now and to most folks don't sound any different than the 2012 CD's.

Personally, I've extensively compared Joe's Garage and Sheik Yerbouti to the 2012 Universal masters and can hear no difference whatsoever. Indeed, the pdf's contained within the downloads indicate that the hi-res transfers are taken from these masters.

The salient points have been discussed to death on zappateers and the Steve Hoffman forum quite a while ago but the general consensus seemed to be that they are a waste of time (and money). There are always a few optimists that desperately 'want to believe' but in reality P.T. Barnum was right.

It's possible that this is the reason these releases ceased in early May and the ZFT do not offer them for sale or even mention them on their website.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:54 am 
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Other than checking out a variety of threads here and there on this topic I’ve not been bothered. I have zero motivation for spending any money on the hi-res illusion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:09 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
hi-res illusion.


Heh heh.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:08 am 
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TwentySmallCigars wrote:
These releases have been out for months now and to most folks don't sound any different than the 2012 CD's.

Personally, I've extensively compared Joe's Garage and Sheik Yerbouti to the 2012 Universal masters and can hear no difference whatsoever. Indeed, the pdf's contained within the downloads indicate that the hi-res transfers are taken from these masters.

The salient points have been discussed to death on zappateers and the Steve Hoffman forum quite a while ago but the general consensus seemed to be that they are a waste of time (and money). There are always a few optimists that desperately 'want to believe' but in reality P.T. Barnum was right.

It's possible that this is the reason these releases ceased in early May and the ZFT do not offer them for sale or even mention them on their website.


TwentySmallCigars, the first question I would have to ask here is what equipment are you 'extensively' comparing those 2 fine albums through? Because when I compare my CD version(2012 version) you mention to the 24bit 192Hz version it's like chalk and cheese. In fact it's like listening to the CD version compared with the SACD version of Dire Straits Brothers in Arms for example.

As for even the Steve Hoffman forum you mention, go read 'Runhomeslow' s comments which completely contradict your statement there.

Hi-Res files are the future of hifi audio and like so many formats before it are going to have the people who simply don't wish to move on from other formats. I'm a huge Vinyl fan for example by the what sucks to a soul destroying level is how that perfect analogue recording will degrade over time and why it's so vital a digital dare I say it 'permanent' medium is essential for preserving analogue recordings such as our beloved Frank Zappa albums. Creations of a genius I'm sure you will agree!

If a hires recording is sounding the same as a 16bit 44.1Khz recording, you simply can't have a decent DAC setup. Don't miss out on sonic audio glory because your playing them through some software which is sadly going to down convert your hires audio files to allow playback through your system. That's simply missing out on the point of a hires recording. To listen to a CD you need a CD player, to listen to a vinyl you need a good quality turntable and preamp. To listen to an SACD you need an SACD player and to listen to a hires file, and you need a suitable hires DAC. Software downsampling to play through a common 16bit sound card which is the common freebie in all modern computers is not going to cut it I'm afraid and with what your describing there I fear that must be the setup your using. Such a setup could possibly make the recording even worse.

You must have purchased some hires files so don't throw them away, and get the appropriate gear and enjoy.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:13 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Other than checking out a variety of threads here and there on this topic I’ve not been bothered. I have zero motivation for spending any money on the hi-res illusion.


It's not an illusion at all, it's a reality. Please read my response to Twentysmallcigars.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:15 am 
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Shrewnews wrote:
polydigm wrote:
hi-res illusion.


Heh heh.



Everything could be classed as an illusion until you realise it's undeniably a reality. Please read above. .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:27 am 
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I have a lot of hi-res files that DO present a huge difference over the standard-res files. I listen to everything digitally, it's not a problem with my equipment.

However, the Zappa releases are just the 2012 transfers re-coded as hi-res files. They show up as hi-res on my equipment but there is no additional audible information past what you would hear just by playing the CD.

A proper hi-res master needs to be (wait for it) REMASTERED in hi-def. And none of the Zappa titles were.

If you're convinced that you hear otherwise, it's of no concern to me. I'm just trying to keep good-hearted Zappa fans from tossing their money away.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Spaceresearcher wrote:
Everything could be classed as an illusion until you realise it's undeniably a reality.
Have you submitted a DNA sample to Science? After all, they could be missing something.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:37 am 
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On remastering, I can't understand why a down sampled version of the actual 24bit 192KHz original sampled files (eg the CD) can be just as good. Put it this way, when I record at 24bit 192KHz on my home RME recording interface(pretty top of the line for the budget I could afford at the time.), the downsampled file still has good sound quality, don't get me wrong but it's not the same as that original recording. I have not remastered the file in any way there either for the record.

Now take the 2012 releases you mentioned. There's absolutely no denying it would have been sampled from the original tapes via a DSD to PCM at 24bit resolution. This data is then down converted for the CD which will be 16bit 44.1KHz. Now in terms of the limit of hearing which is like 20KHz for the super freakiest of people and more like 14 - 16KHz for the average adult person who loved rock music and lot's of it. Double the top frequency is the theoretical maximum sampling rate required to get a pretty darn awesome replica as far as our ears can ascertain. So the 44.1KHz should be just fine, except for the issue of noise and even negative articles confess this whole heartedly. The debate came about due to even 20bit audio not being able to get proper treatment on most DAC's available so it was deemed a waste of time.

Take this article for example, which seems to be what the other fellow fan is throwing at me in a round about kind of way:
https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/the-24bit-delusion/

At the time, I couldn't have argued with it, it was correct when the article was written and would leave many wondering why I continued to bother and follow it after reading this. Well fellow fans, that was 2015 and the whole crux of it's biscuit is that there simply was no hardware capable of using the hi-res files full stop.

However, it's now 2021 and technology has improved considerably. Take this Wolfson DAC for example(https://statics.cirrus.com/pubs/proData ... 0_v4.5.pdf), it can handle up to 117Db of a recording(not that anyone is ever going to listen to there music at this volume level and please don't. A smart reason why most vinyl is limited to around 60dB so it could actually work with the majority of budget equipment out there) the point is being able to capture that for anyone to play back accurately at there own desired level. It's still not up to the full 144Db that a 24bit recording allows for but it's certainly now allowing for the benefit of a 20bit recording.

Please answer this important question for the negative nay sayers. If CD is so awesome and all that you need, then why do most people, especially in these forums prefer vinyl? (Including myself, I'll listen to a vinyl over a standard CD any day.) The answer is because it sounds better and why does it sound better? Well yes in part, it could be the mastering, but hang on, is the mastering not the same mastering that goes onto the CD??? So surely that's not it. Most will say that it allows for the complete analogue frequency capture as straight to the groove, no compression, no dithering etc. It's pure analog and so are our ears. The warmth is simply better accuracy to me. How come I hear the sliding of fingers on strings on some classical recordings with vinyl but not on a CD of the exact same recording? (Who knows, maybe I just went deaf when listening to the CD, who knows.)

I believe the answer though lies in having the most accurate replication of the original source recording and if the original sampled recording was that hi-res untouched file for the digital medium, then surely as long as there's the equipment to handle that file correctly, I'm going to get the most close to the tape replication possible, just like good ol Vinyl(minus the dynamic range.) Why does my Brothers In Arms SACD sound so much better than the standard CD version(using the CD track on the disc versus the SACD track on the disc versus the original standard CD I had(to be sure I wasn't just listening to a different master as you mentioned there.)

Hey perhaps the CD player I am playing my 2012 CD on is not up to scratch? (Although that player is a pretty hi end Onkyo that allows for SACD play back as well, so surely that's not it.)

I'm just going to go with, if you can hear a difference, there is a difference. Put it this way, maybe it's not comparing apples with apples due to the different equipment that may have been used by Frank and the band to record the different performances, but the 24bit 77 Halloween concert sounds better than the 73 or the 81 recordings to my ear. I was playing it through my RME interface which has pretty high end DAC's so perhaps that could have something to do with it. I've enjoyed all 3 of those releases(minus my gripes about the Halloween 81 release.)

Essentially if you can have the closest possible duplication of the original source then why not? Like buying the best stylus for your turntable these files will require the best DAC for your digital collection but unlike the Stylus the DAC is surely going to give you many more hours of playback. (However it's probably to early to make that claim just yet.)

But just so no one thinks I'm not believing in Science, which I am a very firm believer I'll just add this link here, where us audio nuts enjoy making analysis of all this great new hard ware. This one compares a pretty high end DAC with some other models in the market. I'm not looking at this one right now but I'm looking into something that equals the cost of a quality turntable setup as the happy medium to go for. We all know skies the limit when it comes to audio but finding that sensible versus insane point is kind of where I like to aim for.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... -dac.5981/

Finally, I'm not sure if you notice and perhaps it's again this fan living an illusion but there is some difference between the 24bit 192KHz files and the other sample rates(which are free for you to download for ever on Qobuz if you already purchased some.)

As to if it's worth it, well I think that's going to be up to the listener and as for shelling out cash they don't need to, it's certainly no way near as expensive as buying vinyl and hey there's crap mastering out there on many vinyls that's certainly not hifi as we all know.

To conclude, please prove me wrong. It would be great if other fans grabbed a couple of albums and compared them to there vinyl and CD's through there systems.

At the moment though I'm loving my hires King Crimson, Gentle Giant(in all fairness these 2 bands have had there hires files remastered by Steve Wilson of Porcupine Tree fame so as TwentySmallCigars mentioned, maybe I'm getting the joy of a new mastering more than the fact the blurays have hires 24bit files on them. But again they come with a standard CD and a Bluray(if you pay a touch more for the hires bluray disc version of the release) and the bluray disc kicks it's butt.) and now very thankfully Frank Zappa digital albums.

I'll continue to give new formats a try and do everything possible to get there full benefit. I've heard the amazing differences that adding better equipment to a turntable setup can provide(surely most fellow vinyl fans here can back me up here. The better stylus and preamps you add, the more your rewarded.) It's now becoming the same with DAC technology and surely that should start being enjoyed just like Vinyl.

I'll keep putting in the points I notice with these releases but please if you think I'm hearing voices from a vehicle from somewhere out there by all means bring on the alien abduction.

Cheers and thanks for the great replies.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:34 am 
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Qobuz is now issuing Zappa Band shows from the current tour with King Crimson.

Here's the first: https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sarat ... nyzwsql3kb

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:22 am 
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^^^^^ Awesome! cheers Andrew..... ^^^^^

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:38 pm 
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I bought the Hi-Res version of The Zappa Band At Saratoga Springs from Qobuz, which is the same set I saw them perform this past Saturday. I can't stop listening to it. These guys are the real deal. Not a speck of cereal.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:45 am 
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The Idiot Bastard wrote:
Qobuz is now issuing Zappa Band shows from the current tour with King Crimson.

Here's the first: https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sarat ... nyzwsql3kb


Fantastic, many thanks for that news. (Best I've had all week.)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:20 pm 
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Spaceresearcher wrote:
... On remastering, I can't understand why a down sampled version of the actual 24bit 192KHz original sampled files (eg the CD) can be just as good. ...

That is about dynamic range and frequency reproduction. In 16bit/44.1 kHz, the dynamic range is the 16bit part and is more than adequate to produce a decent noise floor and the sampling rate is the 44.1 kHz part, which reproduces frequencies accurately up to 22 kHz and unless your baby is interested in listening to your Hi Res stuff, forget it.

If you downsample 24bit 192KHz to 16bit/44.1 kHz you will not lose perceptible dynamic range nor any fidelity on frequencies up to 22 kHz. The main advantage of sample rates above 16bit/44.1 kHz is in the studio, for processing digital recordings via time stretching and so on, not to listen to the end result, which your human ears will limit, regardless of how much you spend on your equipment and regardless of what you might wish otherwise.

The following demonstration is very well presented and very interesting, if you're interested in facts.

A very good demonstration of the digitisation of sound

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:33 pm 
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Cheers poly' I love that stuff....

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:38 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Spaceresearcher wrote:
... On remastering, I can't understand why a down sampled version of the actual 24bit 192KHz original sampled files (eg the CD) can be just as good. ...

That is about dynamic range and frequency reproduction. In 16bit/44.1 kHz, the dynamic range is the 16bit part and is more than adequate to produce a decent noise floor and the sampling rate is the 44.1 kHz part, which reproduces frequencies accurately up to 22 kHz and unless your baby is interested in listening to your Hi Res stuff, forget it.

If you downsample 24bit 192KHz to 16bit/44.1 kHz you will not lose perceptible dynamic range nor any fidelity on frequencies up to 22 kHz. The main advantage of sample rates above 16bit/44.1 kHz is in the studio, for processing digital recordings via time stretching and so on, not to listen to the end result, which your human ears will limit, regardless of how much you spend on your equipment and regardless of what you might wish otherwise.

The following demonstration is very well presented and very interesting, if you're interested in facts.

A very good demonstration of the digitisation of sound

Thank you for this best post ever on this topic, because it sums up in short all that is to say about this.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:08 pm 
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To be fair to others, the argument in my post above has gelled over time in discussions involving other people putting forward very good arguments.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.



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