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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:02 am 
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The pre-order price on amazon has now fluctuated to $84.99 (US). I'm glad my order is locked in at $64.86. 8)
downer mydnyte wrote:
Don't worry, there are people here who will buy anything for any price. Mr Nice Guy will buy recordings of FZ farting if you mix it to stereo. He'll buy the complete Gomer Pyle collection as well because he is an art lover.
Oh, I see you've read Dave Marsh's biography of me. Lately, I've been favoring monaural recordings. They produce the most solid blast. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:16 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
So they should um....not release anything and do no tours? That seems to be what you're saying. And he didn't say that he worked harder than FZ. You inferred that there was hardly any work done.

I did not say that there was hardly any work done or imply that they should not release anything. Here is my initial post...
downer mydnyte wrote:
Spaceresearcher wrote:
Many thanks to ZFT and Joe Travers for making this possible.

FZ made it possible. ZFT is charging top dollar for these 42+ year old recordings. Most of the work was done in 1976.

Where did I imply any of those things you are saying I implied?

My point to Spaceresearcher is that I'm not going to thank ZFT for charging $100.00 for 5 discs of 42 year old recordings as if ZFT is doing me a favor.

Caveat: I know I’ve had a little bitch about prices myself, but that’s basically aimed at the imbalances between various branches of the distribution network.

@Downer: Your original post is open to interpretation. You make two brief statements, without really spelling out exactly what your points are and that leaves plenty of room for misinterpreting implications. Now, maybe when you're not being clear, we should ask you to elaborate before jumping to conclusions, but what a round about palaver - why can't you just spell out your points in the first place? You like this game don't you - the misunderstood __________? (fill in the blank - genius maybe or misanthrope or whatever)

So what does "top dollar for 42+ year old recordings" actually say clearly if it was not meant to imply anything? It seems to imply that they're old and therefore shouldn't be so expensive or something similar? Or that being old they're no longer of interest, or something else entirely, but the point is, why make their age part of your point in the first place? The work that FZ didn't release himself has the value it does now, because it is all that is left to release after his premature demise, but not solely for that reason. I personally value it highly and have a significant interest in it in terms of how he progressed through his pursuit of musical composition, performance and production and the fact that sometimes there are some really enjoyable and unique musical nuggets in there for their own sake - and I'm not apologising for it. I know you haven't asked me to apologise for it, but you purposely create a negative vibe around various aspects of having an interest in FZ.

Being old recordings obviously contributes to the expense of resurrecting them. It's not just about the work that FZ put into creating them. If the recordings were destroyed, they would then obviously be worth nothing. If not destroyed, but requiring a significant amount of time and effort to resurrect, then that effort itself has a value, because otherwise no-one's getting to hear them and so they're still effectively worthless. But when they're transformed to a releasable form, which involves the work of others, they can then realise their inherent value, which is necessarily inseparable from that extra work.

And what does most of the work mean? If it was 50.1% of the work it would be most, or if it was 99.9% of the work it would be most, but what actually is the point of that statement? Are you saying it was not to belittle the contribution of Joe Travers et al? If not, then what else could it be? The belittling aspect is an obvious interpretation when analysed against the background of your general negative attitude to these matters. Maybe Joe is overreacting, and his use of the word "absolutely" might seem to imply that FZ (and his many employees at the time - let's not forget he wasn't doing it on his own) didn't do most of the work, but I think he just got that from his grab bag of superlatives and I get where he's coming from.

Anyway, Ryko paid $20 million back in 1993 for the ability to market and sell FZ’s catalogue, which gives you an idea of the value of FZ’s output and he organised that to provide for his family. A large part of that value would have been based on FZ’s commercial potential at the height of his career. A combination of that going off the boil and inflation over a quarter of a century, for a specialist product like the music of Frank Zappa, would lead to a price like $100 for a 5 CD collection like this even without the significant amount of work required to get it into a releasable form that does it justice.

Are you suggesting that the ZFT should now be giving it away - and in what form? Like it or lump it, that stuff has significant value that cannot be realised without significant effort. Are you suggesting the ZFT's should be for free as well? How dare a person or group of people put a monetary value on their time and effort - is that what you're saying? Obviously I can't know, but I would find it hard to imagine that FZ would not have wanted his family to continue profiting from his work, given the intent of his arrangement with Ryko.

And, I'm pretty sure the ZFT is not asking anyone to thank them and no-one here has suggested that you should, but if someone else feels like thanking them, so what?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:19 pm 
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^Wow. That seems like a lot of energy spent. You appear to have a monstrous ego. I don't see/hear any justification for such arrogance. I can't compete with you when it comes to arrogance. I'm a speck of dust.

I will take the time to respond. Sincerely. My posts were not particularly ambiguous. You seem to object to me giving FZ the bulk of the credit for Zappa In NY (50.1% or more). I didn't diminish anyone else's role. I'm sure Joe worked very hard for many hours to make it sound fantastic. There's at least one person here who already stated that he would not pay $100.00 for this. Maybe you should talk to him.

btw, your theoretical interpretations of my simple words were a revelation.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:17 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
^Wow. That seems like a lot of energy spent. You appear to have a monstrous ego.
No bigger than yours.
downer mydnyte wrote:
I don't see/hear any justification for such arrogance. I can't compete with you when it comes to arrogance. I'm a speck of dust.
Again - fuck you. You're starting sound like DB. Make a post, upset several people, then claim that no-one understands you. Here you're using arrogance in the opposite way he uses IQ. I'm certainly no more arrogant than you.
downer mydnyte wrote:
My posts were not particularly ambiguous. You seem to object to me giving FZ the bulk of the credit for Zappa In NY (50.1% or more). I didn't diminish anyone else's role. I'm sure Joe worked very hard for many hours to make it sound fantastic.
And you're now saying this was clear from your original post? Of course I don't object to you giving FZ more than 50% of the credit for releases after his death - it's his fucking music. You were questioning the price and your post made inferences by the basic fact of absence of detail.
downer mydnyte wrote:
There's at least one person here who already stated that he would not pay $100.00 for this. Maybe you should talk to him.
Again with the ambiguity, you're just playing games. Who are you talking about? Just spell it out and stop fucking around. If you're referring to me, then I have a copy of this lined up for less than USD70. Why would I now want to pay USD100? My complaint is about there being choices that vary widely in price and the system of distribution is riddled with bullshit.
downer mydnyte wrote:
btw, your theoretical interpretations of my simple words were a revelation.
You see, you use sarcasm a great deal, after a while it can become indistinguishable from who you actually are. That is the point I'm making. I'm saying nothing about how you think - except for the "you're so misunderstood" part - I'm saying that you've made a point in words, that actually is wide open to interpretation and that will necessarily leave people guessing. There's a big difference between thinking something and explaining it clearly - you "seem" ("seem", because I don't have much else to go on) to thrive on not being absolutely clear in your communication. So my analysis is of your words, not you. I haven't got a clue who the fuck you are - but sometimes you really piss me off.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:57 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
^Wow. That seems like a lot of energy spent. You appear to have a monstrous ego. I don't see/hear any justification for such arrogance.


I agree. I had a similar experience with mr. Polydigm a few years ago. His arrogance and self-proclaimed expertice on Zappa and the music business in general are beyond belief. Ignore him.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Rene wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
^Wow. That seems like a lot of energy spent. You appear to have a monstrous ego. I don't see/hear any justification for such arrogance.

I agree. I had a similar experience with mr. Polydigm a few years ago. His arrogance and self-proclaimed expertice on Zappa and the music business in general are beyond belief. Ignore him.

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Provide some examples of what I've said about FZ or any other composer that are wrong and why. And I already know about misspelling "Rite" as "Right" a couple of times - sheesh - what was wrong with me?

What baffles me about your attitude, is that you don't know any more about my musical experience, than I do about yours and yet you've called me a dilettante. Based on what? On average, I've spent more than half of my life studying music and I'm now 63. I've always taken it very seriously and now I'm working at it full time. So, you wish to diminish what is basically my core reason for living, for what reason - you don't like my opinions? Because of some pissy little argument about the word "Suites"? What?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Plook wrote:
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I don’t how a thread about a new (re)release dissolved into this tag team grudge match but it’s getting pretty interesting. Plook, give me a handful of that popcorn. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:14 pm 
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Who is the grudge match between? I know I don't have a grudge.

I had nothing left to say on this subject but Poly more or less forced my hand. If I didn't respond he probably would have sent me a PM like he's done in the past.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:38 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Who is the grudge match between? I know I don't have a grudge.

I had nothing left to say on this subject but Poly more or less forced my hand. If I didn't respond he probably would have sent me a PM like he's done in the past.

Just trying to add a little levity.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:47 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I had nothing left to say on this subject but Poly more or less forced my hand.
How I have I forced your hand? That's like explicitly commenting that the thing being commented on is not worthy of a comment. If you don't like what I'm saying, take Rene's advice and ignore me.
downer mydnyte wrote:
If I didn't respond he probably would have sent me a PM like he's done in the past.
Those were sent in genuine friendship. Are you throwing that in my face now?

You avoid questions and only reply when it suits you. I'm still waiting to hear from where you got the idea that I'm wealthy. I'm basing that "assumption" on your comment about me being insulated from the world's troubles by wealth.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:39 am 
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These things are tricky in coming out and then selling out. For me the best songs are already on the 2CD new York album. I waited forever on the Hammersmith Odeon. What is attractive in these late 70s and 80s recordings is the much superior sound compared to older live recordings. even people with lots of money had a hard time recording live. The Stones live albums of the 70s are somewhat lacking. Harrison's Bangla Desh came out surprisingly well.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:16 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Rene wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
^Wow. That seems like a lot of energy spent. You appear to have a monstrous ego. I don't see/hear any justification for such arrogance.

I agree. I had a similar experience with mr. Polydigm a few years ago. His arrogance and self-proclaimed expertice on Zappa and the music business in general are beyond belief. Ignore him.

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Provide some examples of what I've said about FZ or any other composer that are wrong and why. And I already know about misspelling "Rite" as "Right" a couple of times - sheesh - what was wrong with me?

What baffles me about your attitude, is that you don't know any more about my musical experience, than I do about yours and yet you've called me a dilettante. Based on what? On average, I've spent more than half of my life studying music and I'm now 63. I've always taken it very seriously and now I'm working at it full time. So, you wish to diminish what is basically my core reason for living, for what reason - you don't like my opinions? Because of some pissy little argument about the word "Suites"? What?


I don't want to diminish anybody's core reason of living. But, on average you spend most of your time on this forum trying very hard to convince everyone that you are God's gift to mankind in the field of music. It comes across rather presumtuous and arrogant, and makes your claims on your achievements in music somewhat doubtful.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:28 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Who is the grudge match between? I know I don't have a grudge.

I had nothing left to say on this subject but Poly more or less forced my hand. If I didn't respond he probably would have sent me a PM like he's done in the past.

Just trying to add a little levity.



Just grab some popcorn KU and enjoy the show...don't talk during the movie, apparently in this venue the characters talk back at you... :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:28 pm 
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Rene wrote:
I don't want to diminish anybody's core reason of living. But, on average you spend most of your time on this forum trying very hard to convince everyone that you are God's gift to mankind in the field of music.
Don't just bluster. Quote one of my posts - verbatim - where you think I'm doing this.
Rene wrote:
It comes across rather presumtuous and arrogant, and makes your claims on your achievements in music somewhat doubtful.
Again, quote one of my posts - verbatim - where you think I'm doing this. What claims of what achievements are you talking about? Are you talking about me posting videos?

Whatever. How dare I not keep my music to myself and actually try and elicit the opinions of others?

Listen to this: Uncle Meat, an FZ cover, or this Take It Or Leave It, one of my own compositions, and decide for yourself. Give me your professional opinion - put your money where your mouth is. Should I not have given up my day job?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Amazon just now sent confirmation of delivery date. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:50 pm 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Amazon just now sent confirmation of delivery date. :D

Amazon.ca has it listed as being released tomorrow. (Mar. 22)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:23 pm 
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This is the part I object to, strenuously. This release is all over the place in more ways than one. What is all this crap about all these different prices and now this weird disparity in release dates??

So, amazon.ca says the release date is the 22nd of March and amazon.com says the release date is the 29th of March.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:27 pm 
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And now some twat is trying to sell a copy for £561.99 on amazon.co.uk, with no other option readily available?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:47 am 
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polydigm wrote:
So, amazon.ca says the release date is the 22nd of March and amazon.com says the release date is the 29th of March.

This morning, Amazon.ca changed the status to "Temporarily out of stock".

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:21 am 
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It disappeared from jpc.de here in Germany completely. I can only view it through my order number from January and it says "currently unavailable".


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:03 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
polydigm wrote:
So, amazon.ca says the release date is the 22nd of March and amazon.com says the release date is the 29th of March.

This morning, Amazon.ca changed the status to "Temporarily out of stock".


my order status is "item not shipped yet" bummer


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Max Lobster wrote:
just plain doug wrote:
polydigm wrote:
So, amazon.ca says the release date is the 22nd of March and amazon.com says the release date is the 29th of March.

This morning, Amazon.ca changed the status to "Temporarily out of stock".


my order status is "item not shipped yet" bummer

Yes, but, when it is ready, gift-wrap is available!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:42 am 
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My Amazon says Ordered January 25th for $64.22, will arrive Friday March 29th...not yet shipped.

The round manhole box does appear to come inside a brown cardboard box as seen on Ebay...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Mine is due to arrive during the second week of April - given that it's being posted to OZ.

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