Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Thu May 24, 2018 4:07 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 pm
Posts: 20
MOOP wrote:
For years before the ZFT finally released "Lather," I had to settle listening to the radio version...


A couple of years later, you must have gotten quite a kick out of hearing what Frank wound up doing with the transitions between songs, as they gradually appeared on Sheik Yerbouti, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar, etc.!

In case this is the slightest bit interesting, I once compared two officially released versions of "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary" -- the one on the Barking Pumpkin cassette of Studio Tan, and the one on the triple-disc Läther set issued in '96. The Läther version contains occasionally opposite stereo from the Studio Tan version, as well as an extra two measures of animate flutes (at 3:28) and a chaotic horn section with mean-sounding piano trills (at 14:42). The very end of the Studio Tan rendition finishes with a foreseeable percussion note, instead of cutting to a guitar slide as on Läther.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:46 pm
Posts: 217
Location: USA
Image

I was wrong about the release date of ZFT release. This is from the "test pressing" timing
sheets. The 4LP set was originally slated to be released by Mercury/Phonogram Records on
October 31, 1977. The retail price of this was going to be $27.92 US dollars.
It's this release I have the tapes for. :mrgreen:


Last edited by MOOP on Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:46 pm
Posts: 217
Location: USA
ChrisF wrote:
MOOP wrote:
For years before the ZFT finally released "Lather," I had to settle listening to the radio version...


A couple of years later, you must have gotten quite a kick out of hearing what Frank wound up doing with the transitions between songs, as they gradually appeared on Sheik Yerbouti, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar, etc.!

In case this is the slightest bit interesting, I once compared two officially released versions of "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary" -- the one on the Barking Pumpkin cassette of Studio Tan, and the one on the triple-disc Läther set issued in '96. The Läther version contains occasionally opposite stereo from the Studio Tan version, as well as an extra two measures of animate flutes (at 3:28) and a chaotic horn section with mean-sounding piano trills (at 14:42). The very end of the Studio Tan rendition finishes with a foreseeable percussion note, instead of cutting to a guitar slide as on Läther.


Yes! Conceptual Continuity indeed. :mrgreen: Yep. I guess somebody made a boo boo
on those mixes?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 7:29 pm
Posts: 10187
biffy the elephant shrew looks at Image


the biffy hypothesis


Image

Image

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 pm
Posts: 20
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
biffy the elephant shrew looks at Image


Interesting. Thanks!

(The only thing that I've really disagreed with Biffy about over the years is his claim that Frank "lied" about the unplayable condition of the original Money and Ruben masters. Biffy just didn't know the difference between a multitrack master tape and a mixed-down, two-channel master tape. It's an understandable mistake. This is a tangent, though, so I'll stop it.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:32 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:57 pm
Posts: 715
ChrisF wrote:
Biffy just didn't know the difference between a multitrack master tape and a mixed-down, two-channel master tape.


:? That was me. The argument I was making at the time was specifically about that difference. People had the impression from the way it was reported in the press that the tape damage in question was the bass and drum tracks on the multitracks being unusable, so FZ had to re-record those parts. I was pointing out that it was the edited stereo master of WOIIFTM that was deteriorated, necessitating a remix from the (intact) multis. And as long as he was remixing anyway, he took the opportunity to have Arthur and Chad replace Roy's and JCB's parts. The main point being that he did that not for technical reasons, but because he wanted to.

_________________
Buy some! Now!
https://store.cdbaby.com/Artist/MichaelPDawson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 pm
Posts: 20
Shrewnews wrote:
That was me. The argument I was making at the time was specifically about that difference. People had the impression from the way it was reported in the press that the tape damage in question was the bass and drum tracks on the multitracks being unusable, so FZ had to re-record those parts. I was pointing out that it was the edited stereo master of WOIIFTM that was deteriorated, necessitating a remix from the (intact) multis. And as long as he was remixing anyway, he took the opportunity to have Arthur and Chad replace Roy's and JCB's parts. The main point being that he did that not for technical reasons, but because he wanted to.


Ah, I see. I remember being slightly pissed when I read your statement "Frank lied" back in the late '90s (I think), as I was still at that age when any musical artists you like have halos over their heads. I was thinking, "Well, in the 1/90 issue of Goldmine, he said it was a creative decision he made, as long as the two-track masters had to be re-assembled anyway!" But then, I'm one of the very few Zappanatics who prefer the remastered Ruben to the original. I've sure been torn to pieces by other fans for that one!

By the way, thank you for your services to all other Zappa fans over the years, Biffy! Yours was the first Zappa-related website I encountered when I first got online, and I read it fanatically, thinking, "This is so cool! Someone's writing about Zappa on the Internet!" You were certainly one of the very first.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1823
Location: Bordeaux, France
ChrisF wrote:
By the way, thank you for your services to all other Zappa fans over the years, Biffy! Yours was the first Zappa-related website I encountered when I first got online, and I read it fanatically, thinking, "This is so cool! Someone's writing about Zappa on the Internet!" You were certainly one of the very first.


+1 Yes absolutely. However, I always thought Biffy was a girl.

_________________
"Welcome to the Frank Zappa Memorial Country Club & BBQ" at wgt.com 75 members and counting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 31287
Location: Somewhere in time
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
ChrisF wrote:
By the way, thank you for your services to all other Zappa fans over the years, Biffy! Yours was the first Zappa-related website I encountered when I first got online, and I read it fanatically, thinking, "This is so cool! Someone's writing about Zappa on the Internet!" You were certainly one of the very first.


+1 Yes absolutely. However, I always thought Biffy was a girl.



Your thinking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1175
Location: Earth
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Läther came first :mrgreen:

Just my thoughts: The Sounds interview was in January 1977. At that point he knew that he was going to complete 4 albums for WB right after the tour. To my understanding he was talking about 4 separate albums he had already in the works (I could be wrong of course). None of those albums contain material from that European tour. Läther does. So I have a slight tendency to think the 4 albums came first and Läther later. Since I don't know for sure I will stay with that theory until somebody proves different.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 pm
Posts: 20
These are all great theories. I'm finding this thread fascinating. I didn't know about the 1/77 Sounds interview before, for instance, and that definitely indicates that Frank was planning four different albums at that time. Were they the albums that would eventually become the Läther-ettes, though? The fun thing about discussions like this is that Frank was always reworking album ideas before settling on official releases. For instance, what would be split into Zoot Allures and most of Sleep Dirt was originally a double album called Night of the Iron Sausage. That's just one example, obviously.

Unless I'm mistaken, only Joe Travers would truly be able to find some kind of solid evidence, in terms of tape dates!

An interesting twist (or maybe an uninteresting trivium...I'm something of a pedant) is that considering any of Frank's own Läther sequences, including Slime's images above, it seems that Warner Bros. / Gary Panter got a few titles wrong on the three albums that followed Zappa in New York. It betrays sloppiness on Warner's part, or perhaps sheer apathy. Another possibility is that Frank himself spelled them differently when submitting the separate LPs, as opposed to the titles he handed over with Läther. Here are the only ones I can think of offhand. Did I miss any?

"RDNZL" was misspelled as "Redunzel"
The hyphen was left out of "Re-Gyptian Strut"
"The Adventures of Greggery Peccary" was mistitled as simply "Greggery Peccary"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 797
Location: ger-money
In the other german interview (Musik Express may 1979), that i tried to post here earlier, Zappa complains about the lousy quality of the releases in general: No information about the musicians or the composer etc., and the artwork of course. He even calls the albums bootlegs, cause Warner didn't have the rights to release them. He also complaines about Warner changing things against his will. I guess he basically speaks about the exclusion of Punkies whips in this term. But he also speaks about major changes in the case of sleep dirt like the order of the songs and that its original title should have been hot rats 3. In the end of the interview he reveals himself as the voice of Greggary.
I wish my english would be better, then i could provide a complete translation :-(

ImageImage

_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1175
Location: Earth
Zappa hat manchmal ’ne Menge Mist erzählt. Insbesondere hat er im Fall von Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt und Orchestral Favorites seine eigenen Produkte schlecht gemacht. Auch was die Soundqualität betrifft, was ganz und gar nicht den Tatsachen entspricht. Einzig und allein wegen seines (Klein-)Krieges mit Warner Brothers.

Ich bin froh, dass es die separaten Alben in dieser erstklassigen Qualität gibt.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 797
Location: ger-money
Of course you cannot trust every word he says. Obviously he wanted Warner to look really bad.

_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1823
Location: Bordeaux, France
Plook wrote:
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
ChrisF wrote:
By the way, thank you for your services to all other Zappa fans over the years, Biffy! Yours was the first Zappa-related website I encountered when I first got online, and I read it fanatically, thinking, "This is so cool! Someone's writing about Zappa on the Internet!" You were certainly one of the very first.


+1 Yes absolutely. However, I always thought Biffy was a girl.



Your thinking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer


ewh! No actually thinking "The Taming of the Shrew" ie: Katherina, the headstrong, obdurate shrew.

_________________
"Welcome to the Frank Zappa Memorial Country Club & BBQ" at wgt.com 75 members and counting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1823
Location: Bordeaux, France
So now that this question is at a loggerhead (word of the day), how about this tantalizing question.....

Which came first ?

Thing Fish or Franscesco Zappa ?

_________________
"Welcome to the Frank Zappa Memorial Country Club & BBQ" at wgt.com 75 members and counting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:30 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:57 pm
Posts: 715
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
Thing Fish or Franscesco Zappa ?


I notice that Wikipedia has an incorrect release date for Thing-Fish: listed as December 21, but the LP was definitely in stores in November, released simultaneously with Francesco.

_________________
Buy some! Now!
https://store.cdbaby.com/Artist/MichaelPDawson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1823
Location: Bordeaux, France
Shrewnews wrote:
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
Thing Fish or Franscesco Zappa ?


I notice that Wikipedia has an incorrect release date for Thing-Fish: listed as December 21, but the LP was definitely in stores in November, released simultaneously with Francesco.


Globalia has both for 21 November 1984

_________________
"Welcome to the Frank Zappa Memorial Country Club & BBQ" at wgt.com 75 members and counting.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Shrewnews and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group