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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Taking it back around to our pal Frank, he demonstrated in many ways with his music (taking him as he is what this thread is about), that genres freely blend into each other.
You can give an improvised guitar solo to a wind section if you so please, you can turn string quartets into improv vamps (like the origins of Pound For A Brown), you can follow a doo wop song with a dissonant ensemble piece, you know?

Frank was one of the icons who started to initiate this change in the 'pop' world, there are examples (such as Mahler, Ives, Gershwin, Bernstein, Schnittke, Zorn) in the primarily classical world too, Zappa was one of the people in this change.
We still haven't fully reached it but it has been a thing in the avant garde now, cartoon soundtracks, movie soundtracks, TV show cues (the Simpsons comes to mind). etc etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:02 am 
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Thatfabulousalien wrote:
Taking it back around to our pal Frank, he demonstrated in many ways with his music (taking him as he is what this thread is about), that genres freely blend into each other.
You can give an improvised guitar solo to a wind section if you so please, you can turn string quartets into improv vamps (like the origins of Pound For A Brown), you can follow a doo wop song with a dissonant ensemble piece, you know?
You can't do that unless you're a master of all those elements and that's where your comparison with Britney Spears falls down. Britney Spears can only do Britney Spears, whereas FZ could do anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:06 am 
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Thatfabulousalien wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Thatfabulousalien wrote:
... for the record; I don't find Beethoven to be all that profound at all ...
Is that based on a study of his music or a personal gut feeling or what?


Both of course. I've studied a lot of his work and I am still strongly against the idea of him (and the genre divide in general) being put on a pedestal just because of his popularity but my statements are directed towards how people pretentiously try to assert that one genre or one composer is magically 'objectively' above everybody else. It's just bullshit cultural bias, also known as elitism.

Beethoven is no more "profound" than say...umm....Britney Spears. Many people will listen to Beethoven and feel nothing, are they to blame for not seeing this "profound, godlike statements" that Beethoven is making? Cause maybe, just maybe; Music is music?


Well I guess your correct in that it's totally in the mind of the listener. There's artists we like and artists we don't like. Subjectivity so to speak.

However I'd argue that if you were to compare musically Beethoven and Britney Spears in terms of the content written by the 2, you would probably find that Beethoven actually composed and wrote his music down, while Britney wrote some lyrics sang them to someone and a bunch of people worked out the music to go around those lyrics, then they rehearsed and that became the musical output.

Personally I enjoy complexity and levels of sonic excellence. Perhaps you could say the colour of sound mixed interesting ways. Just like a painter can paint an amazingly detailed vision(say H.R. Giger's Alien for example) or a blank white canvas with a line and a circle around it. The detail shows time and effort went into the work and that shows, while the alleged 'modern art' painting shows nothing but an absence of caring.

That's how I'd hear Beethoven versus Britney Spears. The importance of Beethoven outweighs Britney not because one is better than the other(which is a highly argumentative opinion) but because of the detail and musical value that the works of Beethoven present to the listener versus the low detail for shits and giggles jingles of Britney. I've had friends bag me out for my love of classical music but when I point out the simplicity of what there listening to and then get them to listen to the multiple melodies and key changes of a classical piece they stop because they can't deny the detail and colour of the music presented. They will only to quickly admit that one piece is considerably harder to play than another.

Frank mentioned that the simple noise or the work of say his doowop songs is just as important as his more complex pieces. To this I often felt Frank was referring to another important aspect of music, which is 'contrast' and it's sadly lacking with so many artists these days. I loose count of the great sounding bands out there that seem to produce albums which all have the same musical structure. Not really daring to try something new for fear of it not being a hit seller etc.


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