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 Post subject: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:59 am 
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Is there any sonic difference between the 200gm pressing of Hot Rats that came out a few years back and the current 180gm pressing? The 200gm remaster was a big improvement over my copy from the 1970s.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:36 am 
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^^ Ah, where is JayPfunk when you need him? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:38 am 
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I'll take that.
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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:31 pm 
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^^^ HAHAHAHA!

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:18 pm 
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There's not supposed to be any difference other than the weight of the vinyl, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:27 pm 
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I'm sure Mr. funk is happily engaged elsewhere on some vital matter.

If I remember correctly, on the 200gm remaster Gail referred to the producer or mastering engineer, Bernie Grundman, as "Ears!" which I found funny.
The 180 is advertised as being cut directly from the original analog master tapes.
The liner notes on the 200gm and the 180gm advertising blurb lead me to believe that they will be different.

Has anyone actually compared both?


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 Post subject: re: hot rats
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:58 pm 
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yea, the 2009 hot rats was from the original analog master tapes ... they offered 200g & 150g versions, and for a nominal service charge you could get a hand-picked copy from the first 75 pressings off the machine

those versions are discussed on the steve hoffman forums, almost all are positive reviews, with a few minor complaints on quality control [flatness, minor surface noise, sleeve scuffing, fingerprints, off-center hole] ... there was no comparison between the 200g & 150g versions

unless bernie re-remastered the tapes, the new 180g is probably identical to the 2009 lp's ... would also be interested in a comparison between the 2009 & 2016 versions, and whether or not herb cohen is still on the inner sleeve ¿

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:39 am 
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I wrote to Mr. Gundman last week but no response so far.
I really don't want to be the Hot Rats geek with a copy from the 70s, a CD, a 200gm copy and then a 180gm copy if the 180gm is that same difference as the 200gm.
I like the album but not quite that much.

Maybe somebody from the Zappa family could provide an answer on this forum?


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 Post subject: Re: re: hot rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:47 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
would also be interested in a comparison between the 2009 & 2016 versions, and whether or not herb cohen is still on the inner sleeve ¿


I don't have the 2009 version to compare, but the new version has a plain white inner sleeve. Barking Pumpkin label on side 1, Zappa Records label on side 2; color reproduction on the cover is a bit on the dark side; and the sound is awesome to my ears.

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 Post subject: re: hot rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:42 pm 
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try emailing the vaultmeister; either joe@zappa.com or vaultmeister@zappa.com ¿¿

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:08 am 
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Thanks for the lead and the answer is yes, it's the same as the earlier pressing, just different weight vinyl.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:05 am 
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Your collection is not, I repeat, not complete until you have both, the 180 and the 200 grams, for which the International System of unities abbreviation is g, btw... :P

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 Post subject: re: hot rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:51 am 
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mr_green_genes wrote:
Your collection is not, I repeat, not complete until you have ...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... all 98 vinyl variations of hot rats

us vinyl
bizarre rs 6356 1969 s lp white label promo
bizarre rs 6356 1969 s lp blue labels / bizarre inner sleeve
bizarre rs 6356 1969 s lp blue labels / inner sleeve with "loss leaders" order form
bizarre rs 6356 1970 s lp blue labels / counterfeit: different typeface / gz: ref. 42-8
reprise rs 6356 1980 s lp brown reprise label: wcc, title centered
reprise rs 6356 1980 s lp brown reprise label: wcc, title off-center
reprise rs 6356 197? s lp brown reprise label / gold stamped promo: "lent ........" /
afrts p-11654 / rl 23-0 1970 s lp contains 3 songs from hr / b-side?
bpr bpr 8888-2 1986 s lp purple label: side 5/6, the old masters box two
bpr bpr 8888-2 1986 s lp purple label: side 1/2 = sold separately: counterfeit
bpr rs 6356 2008 s lp blue bpr-label / 150g / classic records / mastered in 2008
bpr rs 6356 2008 s lp blue bpr-label / 200g / classic records / mastered in 2008
zappa records xxxx 2016 s lp blue bpr-label / 180g / mastered in 2008 by bernie grundman


uk vinyl reprise
reprise rslp 6356 1970 s lp 3-colour "pop series" reprise label
rslp 6356 1970 s lp brown reprise label /
rslp 6356 1970 s lp brown reprise label
rslp 6356/k 44078 1971 s lp brown reprise label: unknown
k 44078 1972 s lp brown reprise label: no mention of "uk"
k 44078 197? s lp brown reprise label: no mention of "uk" / ( label looks "orange")
k 44078 1974 s lp brown reprise label: made in uk under side one
k 44078 1976 s lp brown reprise label: made in uk, "v",
k 44078 1977 s lp brown reprise label: made in uk, macneill press ltd.
k 44078 1977 s lp brown reprise label: made in uk, cmcs print & colour ltd.
k 44078 1980 s lp brown reprise label: manufactured in the uk, "v"


german vinyl reprise
rs 6356 1970 s lp orange-brown label / promo
rs 6356 1970 s lp orange-brown label: gema, teldec
rs 6356 1970 s lp orange-brown label single sleeve
rs 6356 1971 s lp brown label: gema, teldec
rs 6356 1971 s lp brown label: gema, teldec-telefunken-decca
44078 1972 s lp brown label: gema, kinney music
44078 1972 s lp brown label: gema, wea
rep 44078 1976 s lp brown label: no lc 0322, wea
rep 44078 1976 s lp brown label: lc 0322, wea (b), overstickered (z)
rep 44078 1976 s lp brown label: lc 0322, wea, a reprise recording
rep 44078 1977 s lp brown label: lc 0322, no factory or licencee on label
rep 44078 1978 s lp brown label: lc 0322, france: we 341, made
rep 44078 1978 s lp brown label and foc: same as above, part of austria schallplattenklub box
rep 44078 1979 s lp brown label: art gallery, no gema
k 44078 1980 s lp brown label: art gallery, no gema, lc 0322, hit songs ltd.
rep 59021 (p) 1976 s lp brown label: bengt böckman art & music collection, with ribbon
rep 59021 197? s lp brown label: bengt böckman art & music collection, no ribbon, laminated


international vinyl
aut reprise rep 44078 1977 s lp brown reprise label: art gallery, austro mechana
nl reprise rep 44078 1978 s lp brown reprise label: art gallery, stemra
fra reprise srv. 6108 1970 s lp brown reprise label: vogue/7arts, circular "r"
fra reprise srv. 6108 1971 s lp brown reprise label: vogue, square "r"
fra reprise no 44078 1972 s lp brown reprise label: short english text on rim
fra reprise no 44078 1975 s lp brown reprise label: long french text on rim
fra reprise rep 44078 19?? s lp brown reprise label: made in usa
ita bizarre rs 6356 1973 s lp blue bizarre label: dischi ricordi s.p.a., (p) 1971/ distribuzione dischi ricordi
ita reprise rs 6356 1970 s lp orange-brown reprise label: c.g.d. promo: disco promozionale
ita reprise rs 6356 1970 s lp orange-brown reprise label: c.g.d. stereomono, stampa reparto grafico
ita reprise w 44078 1975 s lp brown reprise label: made in italy by wea italiana
ita reprise/discreet w 44078 1975 s lp discreet label: made in italy by wea italiana
ita reprise/discreet w 44078 1975 s lp discreet label: made in italy by wea italiana /matrix without date
esp reprise hres 291-35 1971 s lp brown reprise label: madrid, 26.621-1971
esp reprise hres 291-35 1971 s lp brown reprise label: s.g.a.e., 26.621-1971
esp reprise hres 291-35 1971 s lp brown reprise label: estereo, 26.621-1971 / single sleeve
por reprise rep 44078 197? s lp brown reprise label: rep 44078
por reprise lp-s-68-15 197? s lp brown reprise label: lp-s-68-15
isr reprise rs 6356 1972 s lp green label: english "bottom-only" rim
isr reprise rs 6356 1972 s lp green label: english-hebrew "bottom & top" rim
gre reprise rs 0339 1970 s lp brown reprise label: made in greece
gre reprise rs 0339 197? s lp brown reprise label: manufactured in greece
gre reprise rs 0339 197? s lp foc
gre reprise/wb 44078 1979 s lp white wb-label: made in greece
can reprise rs 6356 1969 s lp 3-colour reprise label: warner-7arts
can reprise rs 6356 1971 s lp brown reprise label: kinney
can reprise rs 6356 1973 s lp brown reprise label: wea / record to be inserted from the middle
can reprise rs 6356 1973 s lp brown reprise label: wea / single sleeve
can reprise rs 6356 1976 s lp brown reprise label: back-cover: maple-leaf top-left
can reprise rs 6356 1976 s lp brown reprise label: back-cover: no maple-leaf
aus reprise rs-6356 1970 s lp brown reprise label: (b&h) / single sleeve
nz reprise rs.6356 1970 s lp orange-brown reprise label: circular "r", w7, hmv / single sleeve: b&w back-cover
arg reprise/mh 12.927 1971 m lp white label promo: comar, sicamericana /
arg reprise/mh 12.927 1971 m lp orange-brown reprise label: promo-stamper
arg reprise/mh 12.927 1971 m lp orange-brown reprise label: monoaural
arg reprise/mh 112.927 1971 s lp orange-brown reprise label: estereofonico
arg reprise/mh 112.927 1972 s lp orange-brown reprise label: sadaic-biem, sicamericana
arg reprise 208744 1979 s lp yellow reprise label: sadaic-biem, emi odeon
mex reprise/gamma gx 01-366 1973 s lp 3-colour reprise label: no estereo / single sleeve: no estereo
mex reprise/gamma gx 01-366 1973 s lp 3-colour reprise label: no estereo / single sleeve: estereo top-center
mex reprise/gamma gx 01-366 1973 s lp 3-colour reprise label: estereo / single sleeve: estereo top-left on frontcover
bra reprise 84.002 1979 s lp brown reprise label: momentos historicos, emi odeon,
bra reprise 84.002 1979 s lp brown reprise label: momentos historicos, ina nacional discos
col reprise/cbs rs-6356 1970 s lp orange-brown reprise label: cbs-logo, circular "r"
col reprise/cbs rs-6356 1972 s lp brown reprise label: cbs-logo, square "r"
ven reprise rs 6356 1971 s lp brown reprise label / venezuela / promo
ven reprise rs 6356 1971 s lp brown reprise label / made in venezuela
uru reprise 130019 1973 s lp yellow reprise label: estereo, / promo
uru reprise 130019 1973 s lp yellow reprise label: estereo
rsa reprise rrc.6356 1969 s lp purple reprise label: manufactured and distributed in southern africa by teal record co
rsa reprise rrc 6356 1972 s lp brown reprise label: ... pressed for or by a registered user


hot rats vinyl re-issues as part of compilations
hr+bws nl reprise d 116/0 1974 s lp "fz & the moi" / boek en plaat / dutch book club pressing
hr+cr ger warner bros. rrd 11707 1975 s 2lp 2 originals of frank zappa/"hot rats" and "chungas revenge"
hr+cr rsa reprise rrd 11707 1974 s 2lp brown reprise label: double dynamite 2 originals
hr+cr rsa reprise rrd 11707 1978 s 2lp brown reprise label: 2 originals of...
hr+cr zim reprise rrd 11707 197? s 2lp white reprise label w/steamboat close to centerhole


a load of labels: http://home.westbrabant.net/~hades/hotrats.html
patio: http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/v ... trats.html
know more ? information wrong ? post it here

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Last edited by slime.oofytv.set on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:59 pm 
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That's one list I'll never complete!
I'm really hoping they'll remaster Absolutely Free on vinyl before I croak.
Hint, hint.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:35 am 
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As I was not fortunate to obtain this alleged 200gm vinyl, personally I thought the 180gm vinyl was superb as I've got far too many LP's that are the thin and sad 150gm and less (I've got these guitar magazine sound pages for example which were a record on a square vinyl that are almost paper thin).

I've placed an order for Hot Rats pronto as I was so thrilled at the pristine crystal clear audio of Feeding the Monkies At Ma Maison that I simply had to have one of my all time favourite Zappa albums on this new 180gm Vinyl. Really looking forward to hearing possibly the finest version I've ever been priviliged to hear.

If it's as good as my current experiences (The new singles and Feeding the Monkies, as well as the 12" single for Valley Girl of course), I'll be grabbing the rest of the available re-releases and that Finest Moments double vinyl compilation.

It's a great time to be a Zappa fan. How many fans of other artists get to obtain new Vinyl of records like this? They kick butt on standard red book CD's (SACD's with direct DSD recordings are superb and up there with vinyl for the record(sorry couldn't help the pun), however there hard to find and worse hard to find a decent playback system for), with a vinyl record, keep it dust free and pristine and you have one of the most ultimate audio experiences currently possible. Please note you need to spend some real money on decent styluses and don't get anything less than a decent Pro-Ject turntable or you may be dissapointed. There's a lot of crap out there, so please do yourself a favor and get the good stuff. Zappa is worth spending the bucks to hear in pristine clarity because he put so much into his music you'll hear things you may never have heard before(seriously, good quality turntables with pristine vinyl has to be heard to be believed and no I'm not a turntable salesman or anything. I use a Technics SL1700 MK2 Direct Drive for the record with quality Ortofon 2M styluses which are not cheap but last for many hours of playback, don't wear out your vinyls like inferior styluses. Just letting you know if your looking in the 2nd hand market for a decent turntable. One more thing, get a decent phono preamp if you get a decent turntable. Most phono inputs built into standard amplifiers are junk and you get a decent one from Pro-Ject audio for as little as about $110 USD It's an essential if your going to go vinyl and are still looking at turntables and amps etc).

PS. There's a re-release on 180gm remastered like this one from the original source material for Captain Beefheart's 'Trout Mask Replica' which we all know Frank was responsible for producing. It's an extremely interesting experimental album and to this day there's nothing else like it. Even Beefhearts later works, never matched the amazing originality of that album. Just letting fellow fans know if they were not already aware that this vinyl is available and in existence for less than what you'd pay for an old collectors vinyl.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:13 pm 
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All of the remastered vinyl releases have been excellent.
I purchased some of the titles when they were first released back in the 70s (that means I've somehow gotten old) and managed to keep the albums in really good shape.
The remasters are better by far.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:43 pm 
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SteveFord wrote:
All of the remastered vinyl releases have been excellent.
I purchased some of the titles when they were first released back in the 70s (that means I've somehow gotten old) and managed to keep the albums in really good shape.
The remasters are better by far.


Thanks for the heads up. I was going to obtain an original release if possible simply to hear the difference as it's one of my all time favourite albums. But if the new version is superior I might just settle for that. Many thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:56 pm 
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Just got my new 2008 analog source mastering to CD, ZFT version of the album and I have to say I'm confused.

Firstly, don't get me wrong it's a nice release, however I'm not going to get rid of my original Ryco version as for some reason I can hear things on that recording that I can't hear in this new version.

With albums like Tinseltown Rebellion, Apostrophe, Overnight Sensation and One Size Fits All, the new ZFT releases are far superior and there's no question about being able to get rid of the Ryco versions. However with Hot Rats, what I'm hearing is clarity on guitars and keyboards while previously clear wind instruments seem to be lowered in volume in the new ZFT CD release.

Perhaps I just got used to my Ryco version and for some reason there's things on that release that have been changed slightly by the new recording. It must be the new mastering. Essentially I think this is going be like piano sounds. Some people love a Steinway, while other's love a Kawai or a Yamaha. The Steinway has a more muddier tone which purists believe is true to what the great composers would have played on and therefore gives a sense of authenticity and as composer intended sound when playing there music.

This release is like this. The new mastering has done some great things and some not so great things. Strangely the Ryco release seems to have higher mix levels resulting in a recording with more volume and better trebles. The new release is crystal clear where it wasn't previously but some of the things I liked at higher levels such as treble wind instruments etc now have a back seat and guitars are brighter. The bass seems slightly chunkier too.

I'm still enjoying it but I wouldn't write off the Ryco release for a second. This album is obviously more complex than other recordings. Most of the other recordings on the new ZFT releases have been top notch, this one will be entirely at the taste of the listener.

I'm really interested to hear the new vinyl release when it arrives as this is going to no doubt be a completely new mix as well. If only Frank were alive to verify the ultimate intended release. This album really does show up poor audio equipment and highlights just how complex and amazing this music is. Even the re-mastering can be heard with every change made to the mix. Seriously awesome compositions and if nothing else it's really nice to have different masterings of this album.

Who knows, perhaps I'll need to hear the other 97 releases of the album someday. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:16 pm 
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The Ryko CD was a complete new mix by Frank from the 80s. On the 2012 CD and the vinyl reissues it is the old original mix from 1969.

For example on the Ryko CD mix the drums sound like plastic because Frank unfortunately was fond of such a sound in the 80s. On the original mix they sound like real drums. The difference is huge.

Please don't confuse "mixing", "mastering", "old" and "new" all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:43 am 
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Thinman wrote:
The Ryko CD was a complete new mix by Frank from the 80s. On the 2012 CD and the vinyl reissues it is the old original mix from 1969.

For example on the Ryko CD mix the drums sound like plastic because Frank unfortunately was fond of such a sound in the 80s. On the original mix they sound like real drums. The difference is huge.

Please don't confuse "mixing", "mastering", "old" and "new" all the time.


Terrific to know. So in short. Don't give away your old Ryco CD of Hot Rats.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:37 am 
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I kept mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Rats
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:10 am 
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