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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:54 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:45 pm 
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I could listen to the title track over and over again. It's really smooth. Glad I've finally listened to it. Frank's a big part of my life and I feel this was a big part of the end of his life.

That fucking guitar solo. It's so short but perfect. It's like he was composing complex beautiful rhythms using mathematics and for a second just figured 'fuck it' lets do this one bit with pure emotion and with eyebrows.....

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Oh yeah them throught singers are really rockin' it :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:32 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:36 pm 
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Great to finally hear this! I wish we could hear where He'd take the synclavier next. But,well,that will never be. ...."sigh".....

It makes me sad though .....just that this should have come out in the 1990's,.....and now it's time delayed , and will never have the impact it may have had in it's day. To have heard this in the early to mid 1990's would have been a totally different experience. Especially around all that "other trash" that was called music then(although there were some cool sounds too).

In any case I'm happy to be here and experiencing Frank's last studio recordings.

By the way......is this the last guitar work,....or would that be those live European shows in Czechoslovakia and/or Budapest(I've forgotten the dates of those live pieces)??? My mind's a muddle....and I just don't feel like doing the finger-twiddling it takes to search-out the facts right this minute.


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:16 pm 
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penguini wrote:
By the way......is this the last guitar work,....or would that be those live European shows in Czechoslovakia and/or Budapest(I've forgotten the dates of those live pieces)??? My mind's a muddle....and I just don't feel like doing the finger-twiddling it takes to search-out the facts right this minute.

Frank's final public performance was at the Bucse Festival, Budapest, Hungary on June 30, 1991.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:23 am 
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DMT was in the mail box when I returned from holiday yesterday. I listened to it in bed last night and again now, while walking with the baby in the pram. I'm getting into it, I think. Having thoughts about the dystopian strain and ecological concerns in Zappa's work...The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny, Joe's Garage, SATLTSADW, Thing-Fish, Outrage at Valdez, Foodgathering in Post-Industrial America, CPIII, Wolf Harbour. How fitting that the seagulls' cries set in when the record is over!

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:28 pm 
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The first time for 22 years that I got the feeling I'm listening to a real new Zappa sound. Great and sad at the same time.

Wolf Harbor is only interesting in parts. But the rest is great. Like it. Sorry. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:43 pm 
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I feel similarly about this album as I do about Civ III, which I rarely listen to all the way through. I have trouble putting this into words, mainly because of how certain terms are used and don't sit right with me. I don't want to call music like Civ III "serious" because I think he was serious about all his music and a piece like Inca Roads is just as technically difficult as any of his so called serious music. I could call it "modern classical" I guess, but that's a very broad term. Anyway, I like a lot of "that other stuff" that FZ produced.

One of the core things I've always liked about FZ's music, almost from the beginning of my interest in him as a composer, is epitomised in the Uncle Meat album. A plethora of styles of music all segued together in an elaborate tapestry. A rock and roll tune followed by a music concrete interlude into a doo wop tune followed by some free form jazz and then into an extended guitar solo followed by some jazz rock into some mock renaissance and so on.

Civ III doesn't do that for me and neither do the LSO albums. Monkeys definitely doesn't do it and now neither does DMT. There is some really interesting music on all of those albums but I can't listen to them all the way through. Lumpy Gravy and Yellow Shark are exceptions. They may have more of the serious stuff but there's a lot of "melodic" stuff in them as well. I often listen to them all the way through. They have a much better listening balance to me than the other "serious" stuff.

I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:11 am 
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I've listened to Dance Me This once or twice every day since I got it. I can't remember when I last did that with an album. It certainly didn't happen with CPIII. As I said - I think I'm getting into it. Wolf Harbor is lovely on the big stereo, much better than with cans. It needs that space to create its unique landscape fully.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:44 am 
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polydigm wrote:
I feel similarly about this album as I do about Civ III, which I rarely listen to all the way through. I have trouble putting this into words, mainly because of how certain terms are used and don't sit right with me. I don't want to call music like Civ III "serious" because I think he was serious about all his music and a piece like Inca Roads is just as technically difficult as any of his so called serious music. I could call it "modern classical" I guess, but that's a very broad term. Anyway, I like a lot of "that other stuff" that FZ produced.

One of the core things I've always liked about FZ's music, almost from the beginning of my interest in him as a composer, is epitomised in the Uncle Meat album. A plethora of styles of music all segued together in an elaborate tapestry. A rock and roll tune followed by a music concrete interlude into a doo wop tune followed by some free form jazz and then into an extended guitar solo followed by some jazz rock into some mock renaissance and so on.

Civ III doesn't do that for me and neither do the LSO albums. Monkeys definitely doesn't do it and now neither does DMT. There is some really interesting music on all of those albums but I can't listen to them all the way through. Lumpy Gravy and Yellow Shark are exceptions. They may have more of the serious stuff but there's a lot of "melodic" stuff in them as well. I often listen to them all the way through. They have a much better listening balance to me than the other "serious" stuff.

I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.

No flames from me. Civ III is not among my favorites (music is not just not sounding well today for me, and all the dialog has always annoyed me), and I rarely listen to the synclavier stuff either. I see it as an experimentation playground for FZ - and we would probably have seen much better stuff in that dimension if he had not passed away.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:18 am 
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polydigm wrote:
I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.


No flames, but I do think you should consult a psychiatrist! Very peculiar way of looking at things.


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:44 am 
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^I have to add that recommending psychiatry is a very peculiar way of looking at things.


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:18 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:29 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
^I have to add that recommending psychiatry is a very peculiar way of looking at things.


A bit of a larf is all, imagining a world where everything is judged by what-is-not-there. Especially in ones love life.


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:40 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
polydigm wrote:
I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.
No flames, but I do think you should consult a psychiatrist! Very peculiar way of looking at things.
I have to wonder what's up with your attitude sometimes. I'm just expressing myself, albeit often poorly. Simply put, I really enjoy the variety of albums like Uncle Meat, but find DMT too much of one type of music. I don't expect to ever get another album like Uncle Meat or One Size Fits All or any of his core albums with that much variety. So, I'm not disappointed, I just get bored listening to DMT, so what?

Having just read your last post, I'm not judging it at all. If it's not going to end up in my "top ten", so what?

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:18 am 
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polydigm wrote:
I'm just expressing myself, albeit often poorly. Simply put, I really enjoy the variety of albums like Uncle Meat, but find DMT too much of one type of music. I don't expect to ever get another album like Uncle Meat or One Size Fits All or any of his core albums with that much variety. So, I'm not disappointed, I just get bored listening to DMT, so what?

Having just read your last post, I'm not judging it at all. If it's not going to end up in my "top ten", so what?



I completely understand where you're coming from Polydigm. Maybe we've been so lucky and even spoilt with the amount of variety in his core albums that these other projects have less wonder and awe to them. I still see this as a key project and I enjoy it but it's not in my top 10 or even top 20.

At the same time I don't really rate Chunga's Revenge highly but it has plenty of variety but I absolutely love TMFU which is pretty much just short simple rock songs.

Does this attitude only apply to Zappa? Most bands and artists release albums with only one style of music on it. Do you still listen to them?

All interesting.

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Last edited by NuclearProstate on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:06 am 
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polydigm wrote:
brainpang wrote:
polydigm wrote:
I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.
No flames, but I do think you should consult a psychiatrist! Very peculiar way of looking at things.
I have to wonder what's up with your attitude sometimes. I'm just expressing myself, albeit often poorly. Simply put, I really enjoy the variety of albums like Uncle Meat, but find DMT too much of one type of music. I don't expect to ever get another album like Uncle Meat or One Size Fits All or any of his core albums with that much variety. So, I'm not disappointed, I just get bored listening to DMT, so what?

Having just read your last post, I'm not judging it at all. If it's not going to end up in my "top ten", so what?


Attitude? I make a point to downplay that here ‘cause we have it in spades.

But I will try to explain 'cause you seem to be an analytical sort.

YOU: “I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it.”

See, I find that a very drab way of looking at ANYTHING. It’s like a recipe for unhappiness. And it made me laugh. And so my response was bordering on the cliché: Get Thee To A Shrink. YOUR comment and MY response is straight out of a neurotic Woody Allen movie. In my world it is nothing to get offended over.

Whether you listen to the record or not is of little concern.


Last edited by brainpang on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:07 am 
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Wolf Harbor is a very interesting and rewarding piece of music. I wonder if Zappa tried to make music with space as the main dimension rather than time. I sense the piece more as a landscape than events in time. Of course there is a time dimension, as there will always be even in the most static, moribund environment you can imagine. But there's little discernible progression in the piece, although many identifiable sound constants, creating a variety of "locations" in an imaginary landscape.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:30 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Attitude? I make a point to downplay that here ‘cause we have it in spades. But I will try to explain 'cause you seem to be an analytical sort. YOU: “I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it.” See, I find that a very drab way of looking at ANYTHING. It’s like a recipe for unhappiness. And it made me laugh. And so my response was bordering on the cliché: Get Thee To A Shrink. YOUR comment and MY response is straight out of a neurotic Woody Allen movie. In my world it is nothing to get offended over. Whether you listen to the record or not is of little concern.
Language is perhaps part of the the problem here. I did not mean the word "attitude" in the way some people refer to teenagers for example. I make that comment about one album and you turn it into my general approach to life is what I'm questioning. You're implying I'm somehow looking at this the wrong way and you're going to set me straight. That is an attitude and that is what I meant by using that word. You're reading too much into what I said about listening to DMT.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:51 am 
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okay, how about I was making a joke at your expense? I think it best we stop communicating! Take Care.......


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:55 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
I feel similarly about this album as I do about Civ III, which I rarely listen to all the way through. I have trouble putting this into words, mainly because of how certain terms are used and don't sit right with me. I don't want to call music like Civ III "serious" because I think he was serious about all his music and a piece like Inca Roads is just as technically difficult as any of his so called serious music. I could call it "modern classical" I guess, but that's a very broad term. Anyway, I like a lot of "that other stuff" that FZ produced.

One of the core things I've always liked about FZ's music, almost from the beginning of my interest in him as a composer, is epitomised in the Uncle Meat album. A plethora of styles of music all segued together in an elaborate tapestry. A rock and roll tune followed by a music concrete interlude into a doo wop tune followed by some free form jazz and then into an extended guitar solo followed by some jazz rock into some mock renaissance and so on.

Civ III doesn't do that for me and neither do the LSO albums. Monkeys definitely doesn't do it and now neither does DMT. There is some really interesting music on all of those albums but I can't listen to them all the way through. Lumpy Gravy and Yellow Shark are exceptions. They may have more of the serious stuff but there's a lot of "melodic" stuff in them as well. I often listen to them all the way through. They have a much better listening balance to me than the other "serious" stuff.

I'm glad DMT is out, I'm glad I've got it, but I won't be listening to it very often because I'll be only too aware of what's missing from it. Bring on the flames.


To me the SynC was a writing tool...that that's that. Something for a musical genius to "play with" and write with....The fact that the Ensemble Modern did some of that stuff was kind of cool, and showed ME what that thing was capable of from a writing perspective....but other than that... I'm not a fan...I've been told to give CivIII more of a chance, and the other stuff...but it just isn't gonna happen... The LSO stuff was interesting, but never really jumped at me either..

I liked the band stuff...the comedy stuff...and some of the serious playing that he pulled out of guys. (and being a percussionist way back, seeing what was capable from that perspective was really cool)

I just hope that other live vault stuff starts to trickle out....


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:32 pm 
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A little context on Wolf Harbor, FWIW --

DC Boogie wrote:
Wolf Harbor is a very interesting and rewarding piece of music. I wonder if Zappa tried to make music with space as the main dimension rather than time. I sense the piece more as a landscape than events in time. Of course there is a time dimension, as there will always be even in the most static, moribund environment you can imagine. But there's little discernible progression in the piece, although many identifiable sound constants, creating a variety of "locations" in an imaginary landscape.


From http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=28685&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285 --

drdork wrote:
Idiot wrote:
I wonder if it's a reference to the Wolf River Harbor?

That's the best suggestion I've heard so far.

From wikipedia:
Quote:
Because of its foul odor, the Wolf was dammed in 1960 near its mouth and diverted into the Mississippi north of Mud Island. The section of the Wolf downstream of this channel diversion became a slackwater harbor of the Mississippi known today as Wolf River Harbor, which separates Mud Island (actually a peninsula) from the Memphis "mainland." Completion of channelization of the Wolf from the Mississippi upstream to Gray's Creek, east of Germantown, Tennessee, resulted in a lowered riverbed and diminished wetland habitat. In 1970, surface drainage, sewage, and industrial pollution caused a group of scientists and environmentalists to pronounce the river "dead" around Memphis.

That matches Gail's "dark and murky polluted waters of sludgy Wolf Harbor". FZ performed in Memphis in 1973, 1974, 1980, and 1984, so he may have seen and/or smelled the harbor firsthand.


A few shots from Wolf River Harbor (where Jeff Buckley drowned) --

Image Image

Image Image


Tangential --

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Me This - #100
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:59 pm 
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