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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:38 am 
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I really dig most of disc 1, especially Frank's solos in Sleazette, The Old Curiosity Shoppe & Uncle Rhebus. But to be honest, disc 2 is almost pointless, apart from The Subcutaneous Peril. While it is an essential release, Finer Moments shouldn't have been a 2 disc set...

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
I really dig most of disc 1, especially Frank's solos in Sleazette, The Old Curiosity Shoppe & Uncle Rhebus. But to be honest, disc 2 is almost pointless, apart from The Subcutaneous Peril. While it is an essential release, Finer Moments shouldn't have been a 2 disc set...
Agreed. Disc 2 has some alright moments but all the best stuff is on 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:56 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I really dig most of disc 1, especially Frank's solos in Sleazette, The Old Curiosity Shoppe & Uncle Rhebus. But to be honest, disc 2 is almost pointless, apart from The Subcutaneous Peril. While it is an essential release, Finer Moments shouldn't have been a 2 disc set...


just when you thought Disco Douche couldn't get any stupider...


So sue me if I don't like the farting noises that fill up most of disc 2. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:37 pm 
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To each their own; I'm conveniently giving this a play on Spotify now and am diggin the more experimental, abstruse stuff/progression in evidence on disc 2 :) . I can sense the ensuing Subcutaneous Peril complementing it nicely for me too (this is only my 2nd listen to album thus far). 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:36 am 
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I really like disc 2: the hilarious "Big Squeeze", the experimental/ambiental/Varesian percussion sections, the basement experiment of "Pumped And Waxed" and the great ending with "The Subcutaneous Peril". The only thing that annoys me is Estrada's vocalizations in "Squeeze It", but I have listened to that track so many times during the years that I am almost able to completely ignore it.
I find myself listening to "Finer Moment" a lot more often than I'd first thought.


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 Post subject: re: finer moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:20 pm 
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gray_ghost wrote:
g.smithies wrote:
... With a straight face, such fans will assert it was Zappa who taught the young Jimi Hendrix how to use a wah-wah pedal, and Zappa's Freak Out was the album that inspired The Beatles to launch into the unknown with Sgt. Peppers...
classic obliviosity ... yea, no problem, read my dirty little lips, with a straight face: beatles were relatively tame rock before freak out!, and, hendrix clued-in at the garrick

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Look, percussion sensibility has always attracted me to Frank. Some of the figures repeat themselves. Nonetheless, Arthur is so disciplined.

Frank should have released some of Finer Moments. If he edited it down to a single LP ( disc) in 1973, I bet he would have jettisoned some of the soloing and some of Enigma.

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 Post subject: Re: re: finer moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:15 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
gray_ghost wrote:
g.smithies wrote:
... With a straight face, such fans will assert it was Zappa who taught the young Jimi Hendrix how to use a wah-wah pedal, and Zappa's Freak Out was the album that inspired The Beatles to launch into the unknown with Sgt. Peppers...
classic obliviosity ... yea, no problem, read my dirty little lips, with a straight face: beatles were relatively tame rock before freak out!, and, hendrix clued-in at the garrick


I was quite shocked by this article, and to think I used to rate Grant's often astute observations in his regular sunday column. I think he really missed the boat on Frank's life's work. I would like to know what cd's the record company "sadist" provided. I have e mailed Smithies a list of books and cd's to aid in his research, but I think he may be one of those people that just doesn't get it, and probably never will......


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 Post subject: Re: re: finer moments
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:01 am 
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frogfog wrote:
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
how many minutes per side ?
Should be something like this:

Frank Zappa - Finer Moments
Side A:
1. Intro 1’20”
2. Sleazette 3’33”
3. Mozart Piano Sonata In Bb 6’21”
4. The Walking Zombie Music 3’23”
5. The Old Curiosity Shoppe 7’07”
Total: 21’44”

Side B:
1. You Never Know Who Your Friends Are 2’20”
2. Uncle Rhebus 17’45”
Total: 20’05”

Side C:
1. Music From The Big Squeeze 0’42”
2. Enigmas 1 Thru 5 8’15”
3. Pumped And Waxed 4’19”
4. There Is No Heaven From Where Slogans Go To Die 4’37”
5. Squeeze It, Squeeze It, Squeeze It 3’17”
Total: 21’10”

Side D:
1. The Subcutaneous Peril 19’41”
Total: 19’41”

This double-album is only about 3 minutes longer than the length of a single disc. I sure wish they had put sides A, B, and C on Disc 1 and loaded Disc 2 with side D and about an hour of bonus tracks from the vault. A lot of recent releases have been on the short-side lately and that is disappointing.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:21 pm 
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The liner notes list Dave Samuels as playing vibes on "There Is No Heaven..." [aka "You Call That Music?"].
However, the IINK site credits read "unknown guest soloist" on vibes. IINK lists Samuels as only playing with FZ on Dec. 26-29, 1976.

Born in October of 1948, Samuels would have been only twenty years old when "There Is No Heaven..." was recorded. And it doesn't sound like an overdub.
Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:50 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
The liner notes list Dave Samuels as playing vibes on "There Is No Heaven..." [aka "You Call That Music?"].
However, the IINK site credits read "unknown guest soloist" on vibes. IINK lists Samuels as only playing with FZ on Dec. 26-29, 1976.

Born in October of 1948, Samuels would have been only twenty years old when "There Is No Heaven..." was recorded. And it doesn't sound like an overdub.
Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?


Samuels has said (in email correspondence with Andy Hollinden who has taught college courses about Zappa) he did not play on "There Is No Heaven..."/"You Call That Music?" and that he wasn't even playing vibraphone yet in 1969. I guess no one brought this to Joe or Gail's attention, so they repeated what FZ wrote in the credits of YCDTOSA 4.

I had a theory it was David Friedman (who was playing with Tim Buckley in 1969, and later had a band called Double Image with Dave Samuels) but Friedman has said he wasn't on this track either.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:42 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
Samuels has said (in email correspondence with Andy Hollinden who has taught college courses about Zappa) he did not play on "There Is No Heaven..."/"You Call That Music?" and that he wasn't even playing vibraphone yet in 1969. I guess no one brought this to Joe or Gail's attention, so they repeated what FZ wrote in the credits of YCDTOSA 4.

I had a theory it was David Friedman (who was playing with Tim Buckley in 1969, and later had a band called Double Image with Dave Samuels) but Friedman has said he wasn't on this track either.


Impressive deductions, pbuzby! I can only add that I'm positive it was not Yoko. <rusty trombone slide> <rimshot>

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:45 am 
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I'm not going to say exactly how I went about acquiring this, but...suffice to say I'm fkkn glad that no money changed hands! Because if I'd paid for it I'd feel extremely ripped off.

The nearest things to "revelations" are that interesting through-composed (?) percussion piece and the musique concrete that follows (though the latter doesn't have the musical substance of, say, "Zolar Czakl" despite being three times its length).

Out of context, the Albert Hall radio scan jam is a bit "so what" (and not in the MD sense!). "The Old Curiosity Shoppe" is nice but not outstanding as `Mountain jams' go. The Carnegie Hall stuff is already redundant.

And the rest - the "possibly History Box related" stuff? It overlaps with the Stage Series, the Mystery/Episodes discs, or the Acetates - but these edits aren't even as long as the acetates, let alone "authentic"/"exactly as it happened".

And another frustration is that "Uncle Rhebus" (btw: shouldn't that be "Rhesus", given the "King Kong" konnection!) doesn't actually prove that "Baked Bean Boogie" is the end part of the Meat/Kong medley. It's entirely possible that after Buzz's (monster of a) solo, Frank started a solo but gave up quickly because something was wrong with his guitar/sound equipment, gave the keyboardist (who sounds more like Ian than Don, to my ears) a cue to solo, and then when he was through, took another solo which turned into "Baked Bean Boogie"...but because of the gap between The Ark and Finer Moments we've no proof!


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:05 am 
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cyst-array wrote:

And another frustration is that "Uncle Rhebus" (btw: shouldn't that be "Rhesus", given the "King Kong" konnection!) doesn't actually prove that "Baked Bean Boogie" is the end part of the Meat/Kong medley.

Is this in anyway related to this:

Quote:
'M-A-R,' hyphen, 'J-U-H,' hyphen, 'R'
There's another 'R'
This 'R' will stand for
'Rebus,' which is a puzzle with pictures in it
Then there's an 'E'
It's a very long obnoxious 'E' to the nth degree
And then there's an 'N'
Which is the 'N' of the 'E' with the nth degree
And then there's a tiny weeny dwindling-off little 'E' on the end of the thing
By the time I'd finished spelling mar-juh-rene
Correctly, including two hyphens
My eyes felt a lot better and I was ready for the next part of the song

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:17 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Is this in anyway related to this:


That's what I took it as - a tip-o-the-hat to that speech...

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:42 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
The liner notes list Dave Samuels as playing vibes on "There Is No Heaven..." [aka "You Call That Music?"].
However, the IINK site credits read "unknown guest soloist" on vibes. IINK lists Samuels as only playing with FZ on Dec. 26-29, 1976.

Born in October of 1948, Samuels would have been only twenty years old when "There Is No Heaven..." was recorded. And it doesn't sound like an overdub.
Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?


Samuels has said (in email correspondence with Andy Hollinden who has taught college courses about Zappa) he did not play on "There Is No Heaven..."/"You Call That Music?" and that he wasn't even playing vibraphone yet in 1969. I guess no one brought this to Joe or Gail's attention, so they repeated what FZ wrote in the credits of YCDTOSA 4.

I had a theory it was David Friedman (who was playing with Tim Buckley in 1969, and later had a band called Double Image with Dave Samuels) but Friedman has said he wasn't on this track either.


Thanks for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:08 am 
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It's interesting that you can hear Lowell George yelling "Hands up!" on the Albert Hall recording on disc 1. I always thought Lowell was out of the Mothers by June of '69. That is him though, isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:22 pm 
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I liked Road Tapes better, but this is a fine recording.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:25 am 
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college rhythm wrote:
It's interesting that you can hear Lowell George yelling "Hands up!" on the Albert Hall recording on disc 1. I always thought Lowell was out of the Mothers by June of '69. That is him though, isn't it?


I see the IINK site credits JCB with the "hands up!"s on YCDTOSA 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:42 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
I see the IINK site credits JCB with the "hands up!"s on YCDTOSA 5.


Hmmm - not so sure I believe that. My ears tell me it's either Lowell or Motorhead.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:15 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
I see the IINK site credits JCB with the "hands up!"s on YCDTOSA 5.
Hmmm - not so sure I believe that. My ears tell me it's either Lowell or Motorhead.
Didn't I read somewhere that it was Lowell George that did those faux German impersonations?

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:03 am 
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I see that IINK lists Sleazette as "Sleeping in a Jar" guitar solo.

On some reason I've always suspected that "Get A Little" is in fact also a "Sleeping in a Jar" guitar solo. Except that the tapes of that concert have not been circulated among the traders.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:15 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I see that IINK lists Sleazette as "Sleeping in a Jar" guitar solo.


It is. The circulating tapes from this London show prove this. "Get A Little" is most likely also from that song as you mention.

The version from Royal Festival Hall 68 also had an E minor guitar solo at the end, but FZ left it off Ahead Of Their Time.


Last edited by pbuzby on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:16 am 
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polydigm wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
I see the IINK site credits JCB with the "hands up!"s on YCDTOSA 5.
Hmmm - not so sure I believe that. My ears tell me it's either Lowell or Motorhead.
Didn't I read somewhere that it was Lowell George that did those faux German impersonations?


If I read IINK right, "German Lunch" has Lowell doing his German act and JCB saying "hands up!" Time to listen to that cut again, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:31 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I see that IINK lists Sleazette as "Sleeping in a Jar" guitar solo.


It is. The circulating tapes from this London show prove this. "Get A Little" is most likely also from that song as you mention.

The version from Royal Festival Hall 68 also had an E minor guitar solo at the end, but FZ left it off Ahead Of Their Time.


So that discordant outro that segues into Let's Make Harry Orange Oh No medley was simply a result of a FZ tape edit? It must've come from one of these noise improvs. Usually Let's Make commenced with a simple count-in and the opening chord (minus of course Ian Underwood's piano flurry as on WOIIFTM).

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