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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:46 pm 
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HJ wrote:
PS: I am not sure Frank would have released this. But that is really irrelevant. Waste of time? Nah. Took me 5 seconds...


And another collective 5 seconds for me to read that (and then another collective 5 seconds for you to read this and oh nooooooooooooo!) :mrgreen: :smoke:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:48 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
I thought those rolling smileys heads were "just for me"!

Don't get too precious, I didn't make them for you in the first place, but I did post them there because you mentioned new smilies.

          ImageImageImage


It's true.... I have smiley envy.

[Off-topic: Thanks to Plook, I am now officially addicted to pillaging through Rundgren's entire career!]

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Disambiguation: Zappa's ideas about the relationship between the details and the wholeness of his work are interesting. I was thinking of the overinterpretations of some religiously misguided fans and relatives when I used the term "project/object mumbo-jumbo".
The fact that you were made to feel the need to do this is one of the things that irks me about this place. Some too serious and some too unwilling to untangle/incapable of untangling the fact that such statements are not absolute and that there might be more to you than meets the eye. Mind you, that's a catch 22, complaining about that makes me too serious, probably.

I need the same disambiguation about my post at the top of page 62. The intros to Punky's Whips and Illinois Enema Bandit are indisputably part of those compositions. But, what about stand up comedians? Do they get to copyright their work in quite the same way as composers? I suppose if they produce an album of one of their live shows, that can be copyrighted in a similar way. When they walk on the stage and say hello to the audience you could call that a composition. Zappa did some stand up. When he talked of desecrating the Albert Hall, was that a composition? Anyway, I, like you, was really just having a go at the fan-a-up-your-arse-us. Do we really have to analyse this to the nth degree and then be told if we don't get a certain twist on it that we're some kind of skeptic or bad fan or whatever?

Zappa called it optional entertainment and one thing I'm sure we can all agree on, is that he was entertaining from the moment he appeared on the stage until the moment he walked off it and well beyond. Go and look at my list of 154 favourite Zappa compositions. I'll bet no-one else's is quite the same, so we're all on our own little FZ planet in a way. (ooh is that getting a bit too you know who?)

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Last edited by polydigm on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:06 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Go and look at my list of 154 favourite Zappa compositions. I'll bet no-one else's is quite the same, so we're all on our own little FZ planet in a way. (ooh is that getting a bit too you know who?)


Well shiteree - I'll be damned if those are not the exact same top 154 FZ compositions of mine as well! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:26 pm 
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When i saw the dangerous kitchen playing Black Page #2 i said to my friend what people dont know is while Walter Boudreau presenting the song the tune is already started. Especialy the music is already vamping in the back.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:10 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
Disambiguation: Zappa's ideas about the relationship between the details and the wholeness of his work are interesting. I was thinking of the overinterpretations of some religiously misguided fans and relatives when I used the term "project/object mumbo-jumbo".
The fact that you were made to feel the need to do this is one of the things that irks me about this place. Some too serious and some too unwilling to untangle/incapable of untangling the fact that such statements are not absolute and that there might be more to you than meets the eye. Mind you, that's a catch 22, complaining about that makes me too serious, probably.

I need the same disambiguation about my post at the top of page 62. The intros to Punky's Whips and Illinois Enema Bandit are indisputably part of those compositions. But, what about stand up comedians? Do they get to copyright their work in quite the same way as composers? I suppose if they produce an album of one of their live shows, that can be copyrighted in a similar way. When they walk on the stage and say hello to the audience you could call that a composition. Zappa did some stand up. When he talked of desecrating the Albert Hall, was that a composition? Anyway, I like you, was really just having a go at the fan-a-up-your-arse-us. Do we really have to analyse this to the nth degree and then be told if we don't get a certain twist on it that we're some kind of skeptic or bad fan or whatever?

Zappa called it optional entertainment and one thing I'm sure we can all agree on, is that he was entertaining from the moment he appeared on the stage until the moment he walked off it and well beyond. Go and look at my list of 154 favourite Zappa compositions. I'll bet no-one else's is quite the same, so we're all on our own little FZ planet in a way. (ooh is that getting a bit too you know who?)

That was a close call,but I think your still safe.Just in time to.I was starting to drift! :wink: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:00 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
?? Do you really need to be that selective? ...
right, just trying to catch up, was gonna circle back into the primordial slime of this thread



bbp wrote:
...Check the interview published on 11 Dec 1971: a day after Rainbow but before the news broke through in Netherlands...
nice one, plus lots of other great stuff on that page, such as:
leeuwarder courant 10-09-73 nvhn concert review [translation by bbp] wrote:
Code:
... My suspicion that the group would have lost quality with the departure of vocalists Volman, Kaylan and especially Aynsley Dunbar ...

... A clear decline is in Dunbar's replacement. After hearing the exceptional percussionist Ralph Humphrey I wonder if there is a drummer who can compete with Aynsley Dunbar in the Mothers.
the writer doesn't mince words, he's having a hard time adjusting to the new version of the mothers with ponty, the fowlers & ralph ... that band was my 1st exposure to fz, but the flo & eddie albums are what got me hooked, after a few listens to the latest cd, btm, dog breath & the mud shark sound a bit more laid back and polished ... brain police is a dunbar showcase, the guy carries the song start to finish



polydigm wrote:
And while we're on the topic of what was good about the Flo & Eddie era and what wasn't, et fucking cetera, there is one fundamental issue that seems to get left out of the debate. The best of what that era potentially had to offer never happened and it's all one person's fault. One of the biggest arseholes in history, Trevor Howell, having pushed Zappa into the orchestra pit at The Rainbow, prevented the level of refinement that generally happened with Zappa's line ups.

The peak quality albums of that band were prevented by that interruption due to the length of time of recuperation Zappa required and the change of direction he was then kind of shoved in. A change which I'm very happy for, but none the less sad that there might have been an amazing F&E band follow up to JABFLA. This leaves people arguing over the scraps of the Flo & Eddie era...

very keen observation, zappa loved touring with fellow road rats flo & eddie, he was ramping up his output, had accumulated unreleased material; if he could re-arrange brain police for this band, anything is possible ... the sound quality of frank's albums took a leap up between '71 & '72, production techniques improved for both studio & live albums, flo & eddie could work with large or small groups

the world premier of the film 200 motels was the day before these ch shows


btm solos ... are on the weak side compared to the other example; don's off-key warbly noodling stays off, almost gets gets a groove going several times, but no, the warble somehow gets picked up by underwood's solo, while frank, aynsley & pons are laying down a stellar backing, nice effort by dunbar followed by a rather reserved, foreshortened but excellent guitar solo


btw, persuasions are [for] pussies

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:19 am 
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HJ wrote:
As always I order two (I force one on a friend)



That is a really great thing to do!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:57 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
polydigm wrote:
?? Do you really need to be that selective? ...
right, just trying to catch up, was gonna circle back into the primordial slime of this thread
I know what you mean.
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
... the mothers with ponty, the fowlers & ralph ... that band was my 1st exposure to fz, but the flo & eddie albums are what got me hooked ...
The other way around for me. Almost everyone I knew back in '73/'74 had Fillmore East - June 1971 & Just Another Band From L.A, but when I eventually heard Overnite Sensation sometime in '74 is when I became hooked. None the less, the Flo & Eddie stuff has always been a big part of it for me.

Thanks for your feedback on my speculation. I was just musing though. The only part of FZ's history that I still have trouble with is his early demise.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:39 am 
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Available in Germany: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Frank-Zappa-Carnegie-Hall/hnum/3007135#product-audio-preview

Including audio snippets.

Th.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:34 am 
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Received today. Gotta be the fastest delivery yet!!! :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Got my copy today. Nice package as always. Thanks Gail ! What I've heard so far is great. Especially Divan in its entirety is worth the album.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:01 pm 
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over it, NEXT please

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:17 pm 
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No way - classic release! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:20 pm 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
over it, NEXT please

PenguinInBondage wrote:
No way - classic release! :mrgreen:

+1 :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:29 pm 
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I agree, classic release. FZ appears really happy to be playing CH, and this material is best as it evolved, like the reference to Nathan's hot dogs.

And I will say this again, best live KK I own.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:10 am 
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Soracha wrote:
HJ wrote:
As always I order two (I force one on a friend)



That is a really great thing to do!

I hope you're joking Soracha... That's an horrendously Swaggartesque thing to do to a mate.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:02 am 
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IrishBoris wrote:
Soracha wrote:
HJ wrote:
As always I order two (I force one on a friend)



That is a really great thing to do!

I hope you're joking Soracha... That's an horrendously Swaggartesque thing to do to a mate.


Zappa music keeps you regular; it's real good for ya!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:34 pm 
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IrishBoris wrote:
Soracha wrote:
HJ wrote:
As always I order two (I force one on a friend)



That is a really great thing to do!

I hope you're joking Soracha... That's an horrendously Swaggartesque thing to do to a mate.
Don't worry: I am joking. There is no force involved!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:49 am 
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Good-oh!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:01 am 
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Thinman wrote:

This guy also offers it now (nearly 2€ "cheaper"):
http://www.yatego.com/kkmusik/p,4ede192bcd0ba,4b0a3b82468cc3_2,frank-zappa-carnegie
obviously the album finally has been arrived in the fatherland

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:20 pm 
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As many of you know, I'm not a big fan of the Flo & Eddie era but Carnegie Hall is definitely the best release from this era thus far. The 30+ minute version of King Kong is, hands down, the absolute highlight. Other stand-outs for me, include: Who Are The Brain Police?, Pound For A Brown, Sleeping In A Jar, Wonderful Wino, Sharleena & Cruising For Burgers. And it's cool to finally hear a set from The Persuasions, as I'd never heard their songs before.

Job well done, ZFT! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
As many of you know, I'm not a big fan of the Flo & Eddie era but Carnegie Hall is definitely the best release from this era thus far. The 30+ minute version of King Kong is, hands down, the absolute highlight. Other stand-outs for me, include: Who Are The Brain Police?, Pound For A Brown, Sleeping In A Jar, Wonderful Wino, Sharleena & Cruising For Burgers. And it's cool to finally hear a set from The Persuasions, as I'd never heard their songs before.

Job well done, ZFT! :twisted:


Another vote for the 30-minute King Kong!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Got mine yesterday.
Very nice package, great release.
I could have done without the Persuations but it's easy to skip.
I love Aynsley.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:02 am 
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Finally ordered it from my favourite supplier here in Germany and received it today. Immediately skipped the Persuasions after the first few bars and got right to the Mothers show.

Nevertheless IMO by far the best Vaulternative release to this day. Excellent performances, excellent recording, excellent audio restauration and mastering. @ZFT: finally you managed to achieve the quality I was expecting all the time.

No complaints from me this time! A wonderful release!

Th.

P.S.: Who needs stereo or multichannel formats if you can have a mono recording like this?


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