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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:22 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Freaking Allen Klein. :roll:



FZ's version was that he made a deal with Lennon that they could both release their own mixes of that set.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:40 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Freaking Allen Klein. :roll:



FZ's version was that he made a deal with Lennon that they could both release their own mixes of that set.

That's how I thought it went down,but you throw Allen Klein into the mix and all bets are off! Then JL's shot and Yoyo's in charge.If you've seen the clips from that concert,it's obvious she doesn't know what's what.But you can see John looking to FZ for a que,and watching FZ's hand signals/conducting the band. I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.To make it a CD I think you'd have to include at least some of FZ & The Mothers set,before and after John & Yoko joined them onstage.At least for continuity.A whole concert film would be better! Ah,se la vie.BTW,Is Allen Klein still around and managing bands? He was kinda old back in`71. :|

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:31 pm 
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I love the King Kong, but the BTM is just another bigger one, when you know all the jokes...I do like having the Sofa.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:17 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.To make it a CD I think you'd have to include at least some of FZ & The Mothers set,before and after John & Yoko joined them onstage.At least for continuity.A whole concert film would be better! Ah,se la vie.BTW,Is Allen Klein still around and managing bands? He was kinda old back in`71. :|


Playground Psychotics includes most (if not all) of the John & Yoko stuff in a more faithful-to-true-life mix than the remix included in Lennon's Sometime in New York City.

also Allen Klein died in 2009.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:19 pm 
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myourself wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.To make it a CD I think you'd have to include at least some of FZ & The Mothers set,before and after John & Yoko joined them onstage.At least for continuity.A whole concert film would be better! Ah,se la vie.BTW,Is Allen Klein still around and managing bands? He was kinda old back in`71. :|


Playground Psychotics includes most (if not all) of the John & Yoko stuff.


No way. Well is edited down. King Kong is edited out altogether.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:
myourself wrote:
Playground Psychotics includes most (if not all) of the John & Yoko stuff.


No way. Well is edited down. King Kong is edited out altogether.


i stand corrected.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Lennon edited Well too, but he ended it with a crossfade into crowd noise so it sounds like the band is slowly vanishing from the room. Really lame. Zappa did a much more professional hard edit into the following jam, removing some aimless noodling. In fact, Zappa's version would be damn near perfect if he hadn't edited out "King Kong" like a fuckhead.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:32 pm 
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What's it on,FZ's version? I think I'll get Playground Psychotics anyway,so what's the name of the disc FZ has John & Yoyo on? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:
Zappa's version would be damn near perfect if he hadn't edited out "King Kong" like a fuckhead.


Ha! This actually made me laugh out loud! Just the verbiage of it all, I guess.... I would just never call Uncle Frank that....
"That Zappa.... what a fuckhead!" :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:31 am 
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They both fucked it up. Lennon should never have mixed it the way he did (although the FZ solo may sound better on SINNYC), but it was quite an event and Frank should have captured the whole thing, then at least his version of events would be buttressed by all the music. I also believe that the video just sucks from that and if there was better video somwone would have put it on youtube. I do think the way John paid attention to Frank's cues does indicate he took it seriously, but the food fight over how to release it afterwards does not speak well of either of them.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:07 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.


Presumably the multitracks that FZ and Lennon both used still exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:08 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.


Presumably the multitracks that FZ and Lennon both used still exist.

Ah! But how do we get to them,seems to be the question.Yoko or Gail? That's a tough pair to draw to.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:52 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I wonder if in the Vault there's a decent recording of that concert.


Presumably the multitracks that FZ and Lennon both used still exist.

Ah! But how do we get to them,seems to be the question.Yoko or Gail? That's a tough pair to draw to.


Oh crap.... you never got your copy of the keys to the vault, Kapt Kirk? Soooooo sorry about that! :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:10 pm 
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^ :mrgreen: ^ I always loose my keys anyway! :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:13 am 
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The $600 that Zappa generously volunteered to pay to The Union in order to perform an encore in 1971 had the same purchasing power as $3,550 in 2016. This amount is obtained by multiplying $600 by the percentage increase in the CPI from 1971 to 2016. 8)

FZ: I'd like to tell you something. I'd like to play an encore for you. But we have a union problem in this house. We have to leave the stage at exactly that time, or it's gonna cost another $600 for us. We'd have to pay $600 to play for you. I would like to say this: I'll be happy to pay $600 to play for you. We're gonna do an encore now.

We'd like to dedicate this part of our program to the union men who are sitting backstage counting their overtime money.

And also to the people who make up those kind of rules and keep 'em inflexible so that you can't really work with the thing. You know what I mean?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:34 pm 
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It's one of the few areas that FZ comes off look stupid and petulant. Yes Frank, people work for a living and they have a start time and an end time - and expect to get paid for their time. Not everyone can be a composer/musician/artist creating their own work or performing for people. Most of us do boring or difficult jobs and would rather be somewhere else. Sometimes Frank spoke like he and his work was the only thing that existed in the world. Everyone else existed just to service his needs.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Max Lobster wrote:
It's one of the few areas that FZ comes off look stupid and petulant. Yes Frank, people work for a living and they have a start time and an end time - and expect to get paid for their time. Not everyone can be a composer/musician/artist creating their own work or performing for people. Most of us do boring or difficult jobs and would rather be somewhere else. Sometimes Frank spoke like he and his work was the only thing that existed in the world. Everyone else existed just to service his needs.


I'm not sure this is the case. What do non-union states do when a concert goes over? I haven't heard of them charging more. But it's something I'm not really educated about.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:36 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Max Lobster wrote:
It's one of the few areas that FZ comes off look stupid and petulant. Yes Frank, people work for a living and they have a start time and an end time - and expect to get paid for their time. Not everyone can be a composer/musician/artist creating their own work or performing for people. Most of us do boring or difficult jobs and would rather be somewhere else. Sometimes Frank spoke like he and his work was the only thing that existed in the world. Everyone else existed just to service his needs.


I'm not sure this is the case. What do non-union states do when a concert goes over? I haven't heard of them charging more. But it's something I'm not really educated about.


Unions overcharge when curfew is broken in many cities, especially in NYC, where it's the absolute worst. In fact, this is one of the reasons why FZ couldn't stand most unions and wasn't able to record several shows because of it. And I'm glad FZ brought this to our attention...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:42 am 
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Disco Dumbass wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Max Lobster wrote:
It's one of the few areas that FZ comes off look stupid and petulant. Yes Frank, people work for a living and they have a start time and an end time - and expect to get paid for their time. Not everyone can be a composer/musician/artist creating their own work or performing for people. Most of us do boring or difficult jobs and would rather be somewhere else. Sometimes Frank spoke like he and his work was the only thing that existed in the world. Everyone else existed just to service his needs.


I'm not sure this is the case. What do non-union states do when a concert goes over? I haven't heard of them charging more. But it's something I'm not really educated about.


Unions overcharge when curfew is broken in many cities, especially in NYC, where it's the absolute worst. In fact, this is one of the reasons why FZ couldn't stand most unions and wasn't able to record several shows because of it. And I'm glad FZ brought this to our attention...


Oddly enough, members of these particular unions, the ones that rip people off, are Trump supporters/endorsers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/busi ... nions.html

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/07/469462350 ... -democrats

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/labor ... le/2573359

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/02/trump ... snt-happy/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-2 ... -incredibl

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... 3210a43c6e


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Tweedle-Dumb-Diane-Bean-Counter wrote:


Debatable at best. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:29 pm 
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The point is why should anyone be expected to work for free or forced to work past quitting time? Sure you or I would have volunteered Those people working at the hall - that's there job. That night it was FZ - next night could be Nana Mouskouri or Ukrainian folk dancing. Sure you or I would have volunteered to work that day but the staff were likely not interested in FZ so to stay late for free seems unrealistic. FZ wasn't going to get his way and he was annoyed, well sad to say but the world didn't revolve around Frank and he should be smarter than to act all petulant. FZ tended to lack empathy in these matters.

Sure glad he recorded that night though - love this set.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:07 am 
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Disco Dumbass wrote:



Only debateable in your "alternative fact" based universe. The evidence proves otherwise. There' is no debate in reality. You probably didn't bother to even check one single link I posted.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
The $600 that Zappa generously volunteered to pay to The Union in order to perform an encore in 1971 had the same purchasing power as $3,550 in 2016. This amount is obtained by multiplying $600 by the percentage increase in the CPI from 1971 to 2016. 8)

FZ: I'd like to tell you something. I'd like to play an encore for you. But we have a union problem in this house. We have to leave the stage at exactly that time, or it's gonna cost another $600 for us. We'd have to pay $600 to play for you. I would like to say this: I'll be happy to pay $600 to play for you. We're gonna do an encore now.

We'd like to dedicate this part of our program to the union men who are sitting backstage counting their overtime money.

And also to the people who make up those kind of rules and keep 'em inflexible so that you can't really work with the thing. You know what I mean?
I say Zappa was "generous" because he didn't have to play those last 15 minutes. The Persuasions opened with a 30-minute set, followed by Zappa's 3-hour set. He could have easily stopped there, and most of the audience would have gone home satisfied they had seen a full show. Or, maybe, Zappa wanted The Mud Shark on tape . . .or, maybe, he really was "happy to pay $600 to play" an encore for the fans.

8)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Tweedle-Dumb-Diane-Bean-Counter wrote:
Only debateable in your "alternative fact" based universe. The evidence proves otherwise. There' is no debate in reality. You probably didn't bother to even check one single link I posted.


You don't even LIVE in reality. So fuck off.

Max Lobster wrote:
The point is why should anyone be expected to work for free or forced to work past quitting time? Sure you or I would have volunteered Those people working at the hall - that's there job. That night it was FZ - next night could be Nana Mouskouri or Ukrainian folk dancing. Sure you or I would have volunteered to work that day but the staff were likely not interested in FZ so to stay late for free seems unrealistic. FZ wasn't going to get his way and he was annoyed, well sad to say but the world didn't revolve around Frank and he should be smarter than to act all petulant. FZ tended to lack empathy in these matters.

Sure glad he recorded that night though - love this set.


No one said or implied that people should work for free. So your 'point' is moot. The REAL point is made by FZ when he makes it clear how idiotic unions are, especially when they overcharge...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:22 am 
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Delusional Trumpanzee wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Only debateable in your "alternative fact" based universe. The evidence proves otherwise. There' is no debate in reality. You probably didn't bother to even check one single link I posted.


You don't even LIVE in reality. So fuck off.


....in other words, you still got nothing. Nothing debateable about how delusional you are.


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