Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:01 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1573 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 59, 60, 61, 62, 63
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:02 pm
Posts: 210
Disco Boy wrote:

No one said or implied that people should work for free. So your 'point' is moot. The REAL point is made by FZ when he makes it clear how idiotic unions are, especially when they overcharge...


Your characterization of "overcharge" is erroneous. It's not overcharging when it is in the signed agreement and labour laws. So if the agreement is that building staff works until a certain hour and anything beyond that is a certain charge, then that's the charge - it's not an overcharge. The contracts are signed, the agreement is made. If you want the staff to waive the charge or you get bitter about the signed agreement being enforced - then yeah, someone expects people to work for free. Who knows maybe security stopped a potential Trevor Howell that night - that would have been $600 well spent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 5532
Location: Vancouver, BC
Tweedle-Dumb-Diane-Bean-Counter wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Tweedle-Dumb-Diane-Bean-Counter wrote:
Only debateable in your "alternative fact" based universe. The evidence proves otherwise. There' is no debate in reality. You probably didn't bother to even check one single link I posted.


You don't even LIVE in reality. So fuck off.


....in other words, you still got nothing. Nothing debateable about how delusional you are.


This coming from someone who's almost never correct about a damn thing.

Max Lobster wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
No one said or implied that people should work for free. So your 'point' is moot. The REAL point is made by FZ when he makes it clear how idiotic unions are, especially when they overcharge...


Your characterization of "overcharge" is erroneous. It's not overcharging when it is in the signed agreement and labour laws. So if the agreement is that building staff works until a certain hour and anything beyond that is a certain charge, then that's the charge - it's not an overcharge. The contracts are signed, the agreement is made. If you want the staff to waive the charge or you get bitter about the signed agreement being enforced - then yeah, someone expects people to work for free. Who knows maybe security stopped a potential Trevor Howell that night - that would have been $600 well spent.


It's an overcharge...

This is a song about the union, friends
How they fucked you over and the way they bends
The rules to suit a special few
And you gets pooched every time they do

You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)

Once upon a time the idea was good
If only they'd a done what they said they would
It ain't no better, they's makin' it worse
The labor movement's got the Mafia curse

You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)

Don't be no fool, don't be no dope
Common sense is your only hope
When the union tells you it's time to strike
Tell the motherfucker to take a hike

You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)

You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ray: Have a good thing . . . )
(Ike: You gotta stick, you gotta stick, yeah . . . )
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ray: I paid my union dues)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: And my benefits ran out the other day, yeah . . . )
(Ray: Say I'm gonna buy me a Japanese car)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: I gotta need, yeah, I have a need)
(Ray: Talkin' 'bout manic!)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: But things on the supply side ain't too good for me today)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ray: I'm going to Tokyo, y'all)
(Ike: I know you told me I gotta be at the end line)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ray: Detroit turned into an awful cold town)
(Ike: Unemployment line, unemployment line)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: I wanna know, I wanna know, I wanna know, yeah . . . )
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: Oh yeah . . . )
(Ray: Said my check was in the mail . . . )
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)
(Ike: Get in the line!)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together) (Ray: Talkin' 'bout supply-side economics, y'all)
You know we gotta stick together
(People we gotta stick together)

_________________
"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:02 pm
Posts: 210
Embarrassing lyrics. a rare misfire by FZ.

and quoting lyrics is not a real counter, so - ya got nuthin'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 5532
Location: Vancouver, BC
Max Lobster wrote:
Embarrassing lyrics. a rare misfire by FZ.

and quoting lyrics is not a real counter, so - ya got nuthin'


You're joking, right?! :lol:

_________________
"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:02 pm
Posts: 210
the joke is a grown man taking the lyrics to "Stick Together" as gospel. Unfortunately FZ decided to focus on how unions on occasion, made recording or performing a bit too expensive for him, and decided to trash all unions and union members. Ham-fisted to say the least.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 5532
Location: Vancouver, BC
Max Lobster wrote:
the joke is a grown man taking the lyrics to "Stick Together" as gospel. Unfortunately FZ decided to focus on how unions on occasion, made recording or performing a bit too expensive for him, and decided to trash all unions and union members. Ham-fisted to say the least.


On occasion?! ROTF! :mrgreen:

You're totally missing the point.

_________________
"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 316
I'm really amazed that someone wants to speak poorly of any person who has passed away. (It's known as stomping on someone's grave and it's extremely disrespectful to say the least.)

In essence I felt compelled to defend my favourite composer of the 20th century by putting forward the following points.

1. It is certainly fair to expect payment for services rendered. No arguments here.
2. Volunteer work would allow for some latitude if it were possible.
3. I'm sure no fan would have cared if some of the security guards and excess staff went home and left a small crew to lock up when the ticket purchasing audience and fee charged band had finished.
4. Frank Zappa set the right example here. He was willing to go above and beyond and provide and encore for his fans for nothing. An added bonus, a gift to them. He didn't have to do that either. How would you feel if you were watching a concert, the band comes back onto the stage to play and then the leader of the band says: "Attention, attention, we are so glad you want to hear more of our music and we really want to play it for you, but before we do, you all need to put $1 into the buckets that are passing around until we make enough to pay for the extra time as it's an excess cost that I'll have to pay to a couple of people who obviously don't appreciate our business."
I'm sure most people would walk out and be rather cheesed off.

So in short, Frank Zappa was prepared to deliver value for money, why can't the Unions allow for this same value. Allowing for just 20 -30 mins more, surely isn't that much of an ask. If it is, all I can say is that the greedy individuals who have benefited from the ticket sales and the charges to the artist direct for the use of there venue are pretty darn mean to say the least. Is there any area of life where you get paid for everything you do for anyone? Well I certainly haven't that's for sure and adding that bit extra promotes good service and value for both the audience who are ultimately pumping money into the venue and the artist who surely deserves to be given a little latitude when they have completely sold out a venue.

If Frank had demanded 5 more hours out of everyone then it would be a fair enough case, but demanding to be paid for every single minute over a contract is just plain mean and petty to say the least.

In short I'd say the Unions need to allow a little flexibility if there going to split hairs over a 15 minute or less encore. If I added up all the extra time I'd put into my current job for example and not been paid for it, I'd be on double income but what looks better to the employer? To have put in that little bit extra each day and achieved goals. Or to fall short, run off at exactly the time and leave a mess for the next shift. No, in my own professional stance, I couldn't allow that.

So no, I don't think Frank was out of line, I think he was perfectly justified and I think some people are just way to greedy and miss the bigger picture. It's not all about take, it's also about giving and that's all Frank was trying to do for the people who had not only supported him, they had supported indirectly, the Unions, the workers, the ticket sellers and the venue. Without those people and Frank's amazing music, the Unions, the workers, the venue etc would have received NOTHING AT ALL. That's worth considering to and I don't think the Unions are being fair here at all. There certainly not thinking of the bigger picture. Pretty simple really. People getting paid again next time the artist comes to town and hires them again, or being cheesed off and not giving them any payment at all ever again. So when these guys think there justified all there really doing is risking there income. Word travels quickly in music circles and if less and less major acts come, ultimately that's a big loss for everyone.

The famous line makes perfect sense: "People we gotta stick together!!!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 316
Onto a happier note, I'm looking forward to finally hearing these concerts. I've had trouble obtaining them but there available from a several online sources including the Zappa site which means if your like me and havn't heard them either, now's a great chance to rectify that. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 36578
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Spaceresearcher wrote:
I'm really amazed that someone wants to speak poorly of any person who has passed away. (It's known as stomping on someone's grave and it's extremely disrespectful to say the least.)...

That's why I always tell people Adolf Hitler was a really smart guy, who knew how to achieve his goals. A great leader, God rest his soul.

Image
Adolf Hitler became a committed vegetarian after shunning meat in the 1930s

_________________
You're probably wondering why I'm here
(not that it makes a heck of a lot of a difference to ya)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 316
Adolf Hitler died a lunatic and will be forever declared a monster.

Was he always though? What about the factors that lead him to what he became?

We've all seen 'Full Metal Jacket.' and 'A Clock Work Orange.' In some way there are other factors that contributed to what he became and these are often over looked. Please note I am not defending the actions of Hitler but I would mention that he was originally an artist, a painter and someone that we could have all called normal at some point. Before you go thinking he was the most evil person in the world and oh the horror of what he did to the jews.

I'd like to alert you to the following, which never seems to get any media attention because perhaps there's a lot of jewish influence on the media(not to mention there attack on Sheik Yerbouti).

https://mysteryworshipers.wordpress.com ... olsheviks/

2 Wrongs don't make a right, that's for sure but perhaps Hitler was not the sole mad man when it boils down to it. There were many parties who were also in the wrong at the time. The worst part was the people who actually carried out the plans. Essentially great evil triumphs when good people fail to do nothing.

Just as there are terrible uses of time committed by individuals there's good in every one. Either at some point in there life or all through it. Perhaps I'm just to philanthropic but ending the hatred begins with moving on and not speaking of it.

Yikes, now you've made me get all deep and meaningful.

Look to conclude, using Adolf Hitler as an example against not stomping on someones grave in a forum for the great Frank Zappa just isn't cool. For crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. If this post is offensive to anyone, I do apologize but I've only put forward some factual information in an attempt to point out that if someone wants to put someone else who can no longer defend themselves down, there's always someone worse to shift the focus to. Better to simply respect what 'is', right? None of us can change the past we can only strive to make the future better.

PPS. At the end of the day, I think I'll just stick to Frank's belief in Freedom of speech. I just admire Frank Zappa and don't see why anyone would want to speak ill of him, that's all. Such wonderful work and the hard working person he was should be and deserves to be celebrated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 16908
Would it be too much to actually focus on this recording?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 36578
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
calvin2hikers wrote:
Would it be too much to actually focus on this recording?

Sure thing!

Oh, by the way...

Spaceresearcher wrote:
Adolf Hitler died a lunatic and will be forever declared a monster.
Was he always though? What about the factors that lead him to what he became?

He was a vegetarian. That says it all, right there.

_________________
You're probably wondering why I'm here
(not that it makes a heck of a lot of a difference to ya)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 44614
Location: >>==> Pōneke, Wellington, Aotearoa, New Zealand.
just plain doug wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Would it be too much to actually focus on this recording?

Sure thing!

Oh, by the way...

Spaceresearcher wrote:
Adolf Hitler died a lunatic and will be forever declared a monster.
Was he always though? What about the factors that lead him to what he became?

He was a vegetarian. That says it all, right there.


I thought he was Austrian.....

Image

haven't played disc one for awhile.....

_________________
Frank Zappa "Politics is the entertainment branch of the Military-Industrial Complex"



Last edited by Gray_Ghost on Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:18 pm
Posts: 9307
Location: Over there! (last)
Gray_Ghost wrote:
just plain doug wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Would it be too much to actually focus on this recording?
Sure thing!

Oh, by the way...

Spaceresearcher wrote:
Adolf Hitler died a lunatic and will be forever declared a monster.
Was he always though? What about the factors that lead him to what he became?

He was a vegetarian. That says it all, right there.
I thought he was Austrian.....
I thought he was authoritarian.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 44614
Location: >>==> Pōneke, Wellington, Aotearoa, New Zealand.
Yes, I believe he wrote a couple of books :wink:

_________________
Frank Zappa "Politics is the entertainment branch of the Military-Industrial Complex"



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 316
calvin2hikers wrote:
Would it be too much to actually focus on this recording?


No, absolutely not. YES, PLEASE!!!! LET'S FOCUS ON THIS RECORDING!!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 7051
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Spaceresearcher wrote:
I'm really amazed that someone wants to speak poorly of any person who has passed away.
Amazed? Why should death be a closed door on criticism?

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2547
Location: Hamilton, NJ
CH has my favorite KK on an official release

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 316
WOWY KAZOWIE KAWOKA WAKA AMAZING.

This set is an absolute must have for any hard core Frank Zappa fan and definitely for those who only seemed to like the Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan era.

This set was rather special by including the Persuasions Show which featured as a warm up before the Zappa band played. Really enjoyed it and it was a nice sharp contrast to Frank's always amazing performances but what really is amazing with this release is the superb quality of the recordings. I was anticipating a lot worse but they polished up really well and shine in all there sonic glory for us fans to enjoy for years to come.

The concert ticket replica was a nice touch and the booklet is top notch(in fact a better booklet than appears in the Roxy Box set to be honest.) The Arf!, Arf! Arf!, Arf! Arf! Arf! and Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf! signifying discs 1,2,3 and 4 respectively was rather cool and something different. The artwork was also really cool printed on the discs and kind of made my mind think 'Barking Pumpkin Records' instantly.

For me, this concert showed what I'd always thought when listening to the now ultra famous 'Joe's Garage' albums. That is that they must have been some of Frank's easiest albums to record because he had already worked these out years ago and so perhaps this set will excite the fans of the Joe's Garage albums as well when they hear an obvious pre-cursor to that release performed live years earlier. I also think of the Turtles singers era when thinking of the whole Joe's Garage concept(life on the road with a rock band in music and what it can do to you. Did Frank actually have a few band members who went that way??)

Serious fun and well worth the price.

For the record the Zappa online web store still has copies and you'll not only support ZFT direct you'll also get the set for the RIGHT price not what some greedy record store sales man/woman believes there worth.

ROCK ON and enjoy fellow Zappa fans.

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) /10 pumpkin rating for this fan. (The Halloween 77 box set still beats it but these performances are top notch as well.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 7051
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
IrishBoris wrote:
IF I could just get back to the topic for a second (Jaysus!)... I see on gz sez Michael Kuhl asked if FZ ever wore a watch and the answer is No. Well (smug expression), as we can deduce from the cover of Joe's Xmasage not only did he wear a watch (at least once) but he was one of those WEIRDOS who wore a watch with the face on his wrist! What was it with people who did that? Thank Christ watches have gone the way of cds.....

Before anyone has an apoplexy, I realise this is an old post, I can read the date and I know that IrishBoris doesn’t visit here anymore.

This is for the record. When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I asked my father why he wore his watch on the inside of his wrist. He worked as a fitter and turner at the time and wearing his watch that way protected the watch glass from scratching or breaking. Nothing fucking weird about it!!

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 44614
Location: >>==> Pōneke, Wellington, Aotearoa, New Zealand.
polydigm wrote:
IrishBoris wrote:
IF I could just get back to the topic for a second (Jaysus!)... I see on gz sez Michael Kuhl asked if FZ ever wore a watch and the answer is No. Well (smug expression), as we can deduce from the cover of Joe's Xmasage not only did he wear a watch (at least once) but he was one of those WEIRDOS who wore a watch with the face on his wrist! What was it with people who did that? Thank Christ watches have gone the way of cds.....

Before anyone has an apoplexy, I realise this is an old post, I can read the date and I know that IrishBoris doesn’t visit here anymore.

This is for the record. When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I asked my father why he wore his watch on the inside of his wrist. He worked as a fitter and turner at the time and wearing his watch that way protected the watch glass from scratching or breaking. Nothing fucking weird about it!!


My father also wore his watch that way as naturally (monkey see monkey do) do I.....
I think it was college when I first became aware of the watch-face out brigade with their
WWII commando movie brown leather eye patch type protectors.....

_________________
Frank Zappa "Politics is the entertainment branch of the Military-Industrial Complex"



Last edited by Gray_Ghost on Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 39956
Location: Somewhere in time
Gray_Ghost wrote:
polydigm wrote:
IrishBoris wrote:
IF I could just get back to the topic for a second (Jaysus!)... I see on gz sez Michael Kuhl asked if FZ ever wore a watch and the answer is No. Well (smug expression), as we can deduce from the cover of Joe's Xmasage not only did he wear a watch (at least once) but he was one of those WEIRDOS who wore a watch with the face on his wrist! What was it with people who did that? Thank Christ watches have gone the way of cds.....

Before anyone has an apoplexy, I realise this is an old post, I can read the date and I know that IrishBoris doesn’t visit here anymore.

This is for the record. When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I asked my father why he wore his watch on the inside of his wrist. He worked as a fitter and turner at the time and wearing his watch that way protected the watch glass from scratching or breaking. Nothing fucking weird about it!!


My farther also wore his watch that way as naturally (monkey see monkey do) do I.....
I think it was college when I first became aware of the watch-face out brigade with their
WWII commando movie brown leather eye patch type protectors.....



My father also wore his watch with the face on the inside, when he joined the army he was training to be a pilot and they had them wear it like that so they could see it while flying without removing their hand from the stick (he ended up being a radar operator but that is a story for another day), he was a famous for driving thousands of miles in three days since didn't like to fly after the war and he would check his watch without removing his hand from the wheel (pretty simple and functional reason and I wear my watch the same way).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 7051
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Gray_Ghost wrote:
I started out monkey see, monkey do as well. Later on I switched. Then mobile phones came along and I stopped wearing a watch altogether.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1573 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 59, 60, 61, 62, 63

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group