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 Post subject: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:11 pm 
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50th Anniversary mono WOIIFTM Picture Disc and TR Something / Anything on colored vinyl w/ 45

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:10 am 
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I was disappointed to learn that picture discs actually have inferior sound quality...

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:34 am 
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Image you don't buy it to LISTEN to it.

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:39 am 
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Yes, Picture Discs have a marginally worse sound than black vinyl. Most agree that it is most noticeable during the pauses between songs. So, if those pauses are a big priority for ya, well, there ya go.
But, I have no concern with that. I can enjoy cassettes and other lossy formats. I rarely have the luxury of dedicating time to listening to flawless recordings under pristine conditions. It is more of a question of which lossy format is most useful for the environment at hand. For the environment of hanging out at a party, a picture disc is perfect, while an "audiophile" version is not much different to the party-goers than a picture disc.
I suppose for a person who listens to vinyl through headphones, this is a bit more of a concern, but that isn't me either. I listen to headphones when I record audio, when I travel and sometimes at work; none of those setups include vinyl. Other than that it is all speakers all the time. So, if the noise-floor is a bit higher for one vinyl over another, it is not a big deal as long as the master itself is decent. That level of noise is fine in a windy car, around a splashing kitchen sink or in a chatty office. Sure, it could be distracting in the control room of a pro studio, but few have access to those environments anyway.
Still, some people read that the picture disc headroom is not equivalent to black vinyl and that's all they need to know. Oh, well.

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:39 am 
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Thanks for the thoughtful elucidation, as usual. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Ain't technology great?!


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:57 pm 
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When it works.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Dances wrote:
When it works.

When it works, it's often much worse...

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:16 pm 
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As I understand it, coloured and clear vinyl tends to be softer and thus deteriorates faster than black vinyl (speaking generally). So the current trend of pumping out coloured vinyl for re-issues and RSD - apart from usually being Limited Edition anyway - is further 'manufactured scarcity'.

In the case of picture discs, clear vinyl is sandwiching a printed image. I've owned a picture disc that was so badly pressed that, brand new, the stylus was cutting through the groove to the cardboard/paper beneath - and so just played a noisy hiss. (It was the 20th Anniversary picture disc of The Beatles' 'Lady Madonna', from the late 80s. I was too poor then to keep it; took it back to the shop and exchanged it, paying a hefty difference, for a live 7" bootleg of Bowie Glass Spider press conference live performances with his touring band. The disc was called 'Press to Play'. I still have that.)


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:49 am 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Thanks for the thoughtful elucidation, as usual. 8)


Saves you the trouble of listening with your own ears and drawing your own conclusions. I can see how someone like you would be appreciative. It's a bit like copying and pasting.

In my car, with all the rumble of the road, I find lossless files much more rewarding. Same goes for parties. Or while having sex. Or eating dinner. Or vacuuming...

Maybe some folks can't afford hard drive space. Or they can't move on from itunes.

Of course, these colored vinyl releases are not really about the music. They're for fondling. Or putting on display.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:55 am 
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Fetishing


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:00 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Of course, these colored vinyl releases are not really about the music. They're for fondling. Or putting on display.


WalkerJWalker wrote:
Fetishing


Precisely. And during those times of more money than sense, I totally give in to the urge. Not everyone's fandom plays out the same way. I love the music, but I also love the artifacts - they take me back to my happy place!


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Dom wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Of course, these colored vinyl releases are not really about the music. They're for fondling. Or putting on display.


WalkerJWalker wrote:
Fetishing


Precisely. And during those times of more money than sense, I totally give in to the urge. Not everyone's fandom plays out the same way. I love the music, but I also love the artifacts - they take me back to my happy place!

Right on, Dom. I don’t buy vinyl nowadays but I love my memorabilia and other celebrations of the music I love.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Dom wrote:
As I understand it, coloured and clear vinyl tends to be softer and thus deteriorates faster than black vinyl (speaking generally). So the current trend of pumping out coloured vinyl for re-issues and RSD - apart from usually being Limited Edition anyway - is further 'manufactured scarcity'.

In the case of picture discs, clear vinyl is sandwiching a printed image. I've owned a picture disc that was so badly pressed that, brand new, the stylus was cutting through the groove to the cardboard/paper beneath - and so just played a noisy hiss. (It was the 20th Anniversary picture disc of The Beatles' 'Lady Madonna', from the late 80s. I was too poor then to keep it; took it back to the shop and exchanged it, paying a hefty difference, for a live 7" bootleg of Bowie Glass Spider press conference live performances with his touring band. The disc was called 'Press to Play'. I still have that.)



I have never heard of this colored vinyl is "softer" thing. If it is good quality vinyl , colored or not it will be a good pressing. Some of the cheaper pressing plants will use old vinyl ,re-used from old pressings for multi-color vinyl records....and this can cause crackle as one color changes to another on the LP's surface due to impurities in the stock vinyl. But just listen to the 2017 RSD Lumpy Primordial and you can hear that a color record can sound great. The picture discs do sound crappy , though. It's because they are two slabs of clear vinyl pressed onto a sheet of paper(the picture part) ….and this causes all kinds of horrible noise.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:42 pm 
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penguini wrote:
I have never heard of this colored vinyl is "softer" thing. If it is good quality vinyl , colored or not it will be a good pressing.


There are all kinds of myths about colored vinyl. One thing to bear in mind is that black vinyl is colored vinyl--it just uses carbon black instead of some other pigment to get its color.

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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Shrewnews wrote:
penguini wrote:
I have never heard of this colored vinyl is "softer" thing. If it is good quality vinyl , colored or not it will be a good pressing.


There are all kinds of myths about colored vinyl. One thing to bear in mind is that black vinyl is colored vinyl--it just uses carbon black instead of some other pigment to get its color.


Yeah....I know "black" is a color. Ha! I was simplifiying ....because I'm "simple" that way. But , really, good vinyl makes good records....a cheap pressing will ruin any disc.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Quote:
Black definitely holds up better over the years (higher carbon content). Inevitably this would lead to lesser quality with coloured vinyl..
.
https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/600594#5845763

Quote:
Carbon black (a commodity raw material) gets added to the PVC that vinyl plants use, to make the records more durable.
Records pressed on non-black vinyl will not last as long.
Picture discs are a different story: instead of a disc thick enough to have a deep groove pressed into both sides, a picture disc is a sandwich of vinyl and paper, with a thin skin of clear vinyl on the outside. The groove has to be cut very shallow, like a flexi, to fit.
Personally I would expect a picture disc to wear out after 3 plays. Anything more is a bonus.

https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/600594#5845764

Quote:
In my experience, older coloured vinyl seems to be significantly less durable than modern stuff. Old thrash metal tunes I have from the mid 80's have degraded very fast on play. Modern stuff seems to last better.

Nothing beats black for strength though. (I am still a sucker for coloured vinyl though :)

https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/600594#5845765

Quote:
the only coloured vinyl i found to be approaching the audio quality of black one is white vinyl.

as for picture discs, let's say you're better off staring at them rather than playing them

https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/600594#5845766


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Technical conditions for the production of vinyl records
(...)
In addition to the above mentioned products, there are also different types of records which differ in
weight (standard and "heavy"), colour, designer labels (picture disc) or shape (shaped vinyl). These may
not conform to the standard specifications published in IEC 98
.
(...)
Note:
Picture Discs may deteriorate the acoustic properties of the recording, for example, causing especially
increased noise and static. These degraded acoustic properties cannot be subject to claim.
COLOR VINYL
(...)
Also, color vinyl can suffer from some audio quality loss due to the nature of the PVC material used. You will hear this in quiet spots, in between tracks and in the lead in and out grooves. If you are concerned about audio quality, black vinyl is always your best bet.
(...)
Picture Discs:
(...)
Although audibly inferior to standard vinyl, they still sound ok but the true beauty of this product is in the visuals.


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 Post subject: Re: RSD 2018
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Should be a good RSD. My FZ and TR are already at the shop, waiting for Friday.

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