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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:11 pm 
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Hmmm, "Roxy And Elsewhere".

There's no Bruce Fowler on Helsinki album. Need I say more?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:35 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Hmmm, "Roxy And Elsewhere".

There's no Bruce Fowler on Helsinki album. Need I say more?
true true true


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:32 am 
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My Roxy is a misprint, and when I had to do without roxy for some time because I had to switch to a poor CD-player, it was terrible! So for me I suppose it's Roxy's polished sounds, yet I prefer Helsinki's Edchina.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:34 am 
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I gotta go with Roxy here, but that may just be because I heard it first.

To me, I went apeshit when I heard Helsinki's 'Village Of The Sun' and 'Pygymy Twilight'. Pygmy felt like it had lost that awesome groove it has on Roxy, and 'Village' had been murdered by how fast it was.

It was incredible to hear them play that live, but still...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:46 am 
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For me Vol.2 blows Roxy away, that maybe because I heard Vol.2 first and am much more familiar with the ultra fast tempos. the combo of Echinda's Arf/Don;t You Ever Wash That Thing?/ Room Service/Pygmy Twylyte is totally awesome and absolutely breathtaking. Dupree's Paradise bores me quite frankly, and Big Swifty is far far batter on Vol.1. As a document of a complete show sans encores it kicks butt, and I would like to hear more Vaulternative releases in the same vein as Grateful Dead's Dick's Pick's series, in other words, entire shows released rather than compilations of shows. That's just the way I prefer things.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:01 am 
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i think roxy feels a little "warmer" maybe, it's more relaxed than how frantic the helsinki show is, but to pick one over another is way too hard. I'll go with Roxy since FZ enjoyed enough to release it when it was current to the band i guess.

That's probably my favorite group too, so it's like trying to pick your favorite son out of two non-identical twins

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:15 am 
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IMO...

Both are plagued with monologues and routines that become tedious to listen to after the first time...I often fast forward or skip these things to get to the music.

Vol. 2 has excellent stuff like Inca, Rdnzl, T'Mershi Duween, Dog Breath/Uncle Meat, Echidna's Arf. I also like DYEWTT, Cheepnis and Pygmy Twylyte better on this one. Just straight uninterupted music. Dupree's Paradise and Approximate (2 FZ classics) would get much better documentation in the future...they are marred on this set with too much messing around and talking. Shame really. And Big Swifty on YCDTOSA Vol. 1 with this same band, is far superior to the one that appears on Vol. 2.

I'd say I enjoy Vol. 2 better than Roxy because overall it has more tracks that I like and listen to more often.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:49 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
I slightly prefer Roxy's more polished sound (probably due to the studio overdubs), but Helsinki's great as well and the band is unbelievably tight. The only thing.. I don't like the Helsinki version of Village of the Sun all that much, with all the tempo changes.

I couldnt agree more. Helsinki great show no dought. I definatly like the Roxy version of Village way better to.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:03 pm 
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To me they are quite different.
Roxy sounds like an album compiled from a concert and Helsinki has a complete concert without overdubs, so it's a matter of what mood I'm in.
It's a 50/50 thing with me. Both have musical mastery going on (in different places, hence the differences of the songs) and both have funny onstage banter.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:21 pm 
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Is it worth upgrading my original RYKO version with one of the newer so called "Upgaded Sound" version of "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol 2"?

Now I tend to play ROXY much more, and long for the DVD... :P

What we get on "True Stories of 200 Motels" is just great.

On "Dickie's Such An Asshole" from "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 3 {But is from the same December 8-10 1973 ROXY shows}, we hear Zappa say "Ah, they're going to ah, reload the cameras and we're gonna do a special, 'nuther special number for you, ladies and gentlemen" Do you think they got this entier song on film?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:50 am 
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The only cd's that really improved on Rykodisc were Money, You Are What You Is and Tinseltown Rebellion (the '98 versions). Others are more or less the same or inferior to the older cd's (Sheik Yerbouti comes to mind).
I have Rykodisc and older cd's, because I don't care, to me they're pretty similar. I have the 'older' YCDTOSA2 and love it, sound-wise as well as content-wise. 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:07 am 
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Son Of Willie The Pimp wrote:
...
I have Rykodisc and older cd's, because I don't care, to me they're pretty similar. I have the 'older' YCDTOSA2 and love it, sound-wise as well as content-wise. 8)


Thank you for responding to my question above. That advice is much appreciated. I’ll save my money for other goodies.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:06 am 
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J wrote:
IMO...

Both are plagued with monologues and routines that become tedious to listen to after the first time...I often fast forward or skip these things to get to the music.

Vol. 2 has excellent stuff like Inca, Rdnzl, T'Mershi Duween, Dog Breath/Uncle Meat, Echidna's Arf. I also like DYEWTT, Cheepnis and Pygmy Twylyte better on this one. Just straight uninterupted music. Dupree's Paradise and Approximate (2 FZ classics) would get much better documentation in the future...they are marred on this set with too much messing around and talking. Shame really. And Big Swifty on YCDTOSA Vol. 1 with this same band, is far superior to the one that appears on Vol. 2.

I'd say I enjoy Vol. 2 better than Roxy because overall it has more tracks that I like and listen to more often.


It's always interesting to see what others think of, in regards to specific aspects of the various versions of songs, shows, ect.

For instance, I couldn't agree less with your opinon about the monologues and routines.
I never skip them.
They're a way of life. :wink:

That being said, I agree with the Big Swifty comparision you brought up.
Though Big Swifty is like Pizza, there is no such thing as bad Big Swifty :D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:13 am 
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Phlakaton wrote:
The difference between the two for me would be the degree of warmth I get from Roxy and more of a chill from Helsinki. Hmm... that's kinda confusing I guess.

Roxy has more heart.

Helsinki is pure technical mastery.

Roxy has a nice atmosphere that Helsinki misses.

Helsinki is a band at it's peak and although I love it ... it's missing that playfulness (even though there's some in the Helsinki show... not much compared to Roxy).

I have different copies of Roxy that seem to have different mixes too... anyone notice this. Maybe the vinyl and cd are different in the mastering mixes.

I just love the horns on Roxy too... makes the compostions bloom into a flower!


Right on man!

It's almost a mystery how the Roxy recordings sound so warm and nicely nebulous, whereas Helsinki era band had colder and slicker sound. Did the presence/absence of brass and 2nd trap-kit really make as much difference? Or maybe FZ' had some adjustments in the technical rider, like probably adding more reverb to drums or something? Also, I think Tom Fowler played a different sort of electric bass in 1974-5 as well. In 1973 he played with a Fender (probably Jazz Bass?) model. Whatever the case, I much prefer the 1973 live sound.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:06 am 
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Both are enjoyable to me. I do like the two drummer approach on Roxy and the polished mastery of YCDTOSA 2.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:11 am 
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No doubt: Roxy. Roxy. Roxy.
Helsinki is very overrated IMO. Absolutely not bad, but..

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:14 am 
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8_Oz_Wings wrote:
I think Roxy & Elsewhere is better overall than The Helsinki Concert. The only way it could be better would be if Jean-Luc Ponty was still in the band!


The only way Roxy could be better would be if Jean-Luc Ponty AND Ian Underwood were still in the band!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:26 am 
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Roxy. I like the sound and compositions of it better.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:58 am 
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I got Helsinki first, so I'm a little partial to that one. Plus I'm not a huge fan of this band's arrangement of "Trouble > Oh No > Orange County", and the "Be Bop Tango" doesn't particularly excite me. Then again, neither does the hyper extended "Duprees" on vol 2, but this is all just nitpicking. They're both amazing, face the facts.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:49 am 
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Elsewhere and Helsinki band both would perform (Roxy band didn't) Oh No/Son of Orange County/Trouble at their concerts. The 1974 arrangement of "Trouble Every Day" is not bad, but I prefer the original Freak Out version and sadly Frank thought that the Elsewhere arrangement was the definite version of this song and stuck with it during his subsequent career.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:54 am 
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^^ Agree

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:49 pm 
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Roxy for me, not one track I don't enjoy, I even scooped it up on vinyl along with Guitar recently!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:45 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:

It's almost a mystery how the Roxy recordings sound so warm and nicely nebulous, whereas Helsinki era band had colder and slicker sound.


Probably mainly that FZ mixed Roxy in 1974 and Helsinki sometime around 1988.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:08 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:

It's almost a mystery how the Roxy recordings sound so warm and nicely nebulous, whereas Helsinki era band had colder and slicker sound.


Probably mainly that FZ mixed Roxy in 1974 and Helsinki sometime around 1988.
when i bought vol 2 on vinyl must of listened two times but roxy a bit later fuck loved it on cd .

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:00 pm 
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i ordered helinsky online and it supposedly shipped last saturday and i have yet to receive it. i cant wait much longer.


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