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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:52 pm 
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I heard that the drums on Road Ladies were overdubbed by Cubby from the Mouseketeers.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:57 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I heard that the drums on Road Ladies were overdubbed by Cubby from the Mouseketeers.


no?!!!!??? wow. that's amazing! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:57 am 
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Cubby, huh? Good one. Look, the question is still out there, are the oribginal Ryko mixes for YCDTOSA 2 the same as the '95 remasters?

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 Post subject: Re: ??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:17 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Cubby, huh? Good one. Look, the question is still out there, are the oribginal Ryko mixes for YCDTOSA 2 the same as the '95 remasters?


Isaac wrote:
Quote:
1995 CDs

Official Ryko statement on volumes 1-4: "New master; New timing sheet: Volumes 1-4" [full statement]. John Henley's statement:

I have replaced Stages 1, 2 and 4 with the newer issues, and I think they sound better, especially 2. There are no ... differences to the mix, I just think the newer masters sound a little more lifelike, a little less attenuated on the high end.

Some dissent from David G:

The only duplicate I have is volume II, and (apologies to John Henley) I am disappointed to report that the old Ryko and new Ryko of stage II are absolutely digitally identical.


http://lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/stage.html#1995cds


[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:20 am 
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OK, looking at that page, there is no real reason for me to get any of the 1995 re-dos of the YCDTOSA series

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:04 pm 
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I see Cubby still fails to get his due.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:34 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I'm waiting for a sensible explanation how come the kick drum on YCDTOSA2 sounds so different from other 1974 band recordings (a la "Smell My Beard"), to the point of sounding sterile and, well, a bit 80s if you will.

exactly. It may not be a sample of chad's kick drum, maybe it's the dbx device, mentioned by puzby:

pbuzby wrote:
Mix: There seems to be some reference in the newsgroups to thpossibility that the kick drum on the Helsinki concerts was kind of sampled in or something.
Pinske: It was. It's called a Disco Boombox. It was made by dbx. It's a little thing called Disco Boombox. That's what the name of it was. You could spit into it and a kick drum would come out. [Laughs.] You could basically send anything you wanted into it and a kick drum would come out.

it's definitely chester playing. nobody is disputing that, but the sound of the kick drum is not his. if people can't hear that, I don't know what's wrong with them.

Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I'm fairly sure there's a Wackerman kick sound triggered on CD version of "Mr Green Genes" too.

yep. wackerman, or the dbx.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:17 pm 
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I'm so glad I got the '88 edition.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:10 am 
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I'm new and this is a good topic for discussion! some thoughts

ROXY:
- old timers like me may have a sentimental attachment to Roxy and the
versions of favorite tracks contained therein (e.g. Village of the Sun)
- This was a 10th anniversary tour/recording, giving it some special event quality.
- more musicians (good ones too!). More is better right?
- the fact that known material is not included hurts this release IMO. Particularly Dickies Such an Asshole, which was so relevant at the time.
Roxy could have easily been a 3 or 4 LP release if all was included. That would have been impossible with WB.
- As far a technicals, Roxy was recorded in LA, where the best available recording equipment could be deployed.

YCDTOSA2:
- on the other hand,those like me, who have ventured into the dark side of bootlegs, really appreciate the nearly complete concert that is YCDTOSA2.If I am not mistaken, this is the first official full concert release. The completeness appeals to those who have seen FZ concerts in person and serves as a essential document for those youngsters who were born too late. The fact that many will never get to see Frank in the flesh is soooo sad.
- This event was recorded where the best recording equipment was NOT available. Frank mentions this issue in the Sheik Yerbouti liner, wherein he says basically that the desired recording equipment was only available in big cities, and smaller locales produced guerrilla recordings on lesser
quality equipment, and fine performances from these venues suffered from a lack of equally high-quality gear.
- the core band was together more than a year longer and were definitely tighter.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:24 am 
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Pocket Fisherman hits on an essential point in this comparison. We who bought the LPs in the '70s were used to the format, and double LPs were a big deal (FZ had released FO, UM, Mothermania and the 200 Motels soundtrack as 'doubles' - he was MUCH more prolific than other 'rock' composers).

The labels always squawked over double-LP releases, but, by the time of the Roxy release, they were more common, especially for live stuff. So we (FZ fans back then, who only knew what we were exposed to) felt that the Roxy LPs were quite a representation of that band, and a lot of music to boot. I had been listening to Roxy for nearly fifteen years by the time that YCDTOSA 2 was first released. I liked the concept and the fact that double-CD releases were like 4-LP sets, but the compactness and the sound quality of the Roxy release would always render it a better choice for me.

It's what you grew up with....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:07 pm 
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every one here speaks legit concepts. for me it would be like asking a parent which one of their kids they love more. that said, and no comparitive analysis to be made, Roxy had been my go to album for SO long. George's solo on Don't you wash that . . and NMB's vox through out (esp dummy up, village. sun) have such hard core SOUL, MuthaFuckin SOUL, they didn't call em the Mothers for nothing!!

my two scents.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:19 pm 
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pocket_fisherman wrote:
I The fact that many will never get to see Frank in the flesh is soooo sad.


this is exactly why i/we need more dvds of the live shows. i only have what, 3 official live presentations for my viewing pleasure? if i start watching the old footage available on youtube, i cant stop.

bring roxy!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:26 pm 
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nice man washing wrote:
The kick drum sound on YCDTOSA vol. 2 is unbelievably shit. Almost ruins a great album.

It makes it really hard to listen to.......what a cryin' shame! :cry:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:27 am 
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kingtechnorock wrote:
. . and NMB's vox through out (esp dummy up, village. sun)


Hey, that's George Duke singing!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:55 am 
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Vietato l'Ingresso wrote:
kingtechnorock wrote:
. . and NMB's vox through out (esp dummy up, village. sun)


Hey, that's George Duke singing!


Brock with some harmonies from Duke.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:16 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
Vietato l'Ingresso wrote:
kingtechnorock wrote:
. . and NMB's vox through out (esp dummy up, village. sun)


Hey, that's George Duke singing!


Brock with some harmonies from Duke.


Not sure how much of Duke singing there at all. I've read that Brock did all the vocal overdubs for this one, explaining that "one is best able to harmonize with oneself" or something.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:35 am 
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That's strange: memory served me wrong - it's Napoleon alright, but my head-version with George is better!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:09 pm 
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George sang it for a while in '73, but Brock took over the vocals shortly before the Roxy shows. (BTW, those overdubbed multiple-Brock vocals on R&E are great on headphones.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Oh yeah, that's why! I heard the band with Jean-Luc Ponty, the Underwoods, two of the Fowlers, Humphrey and Duke in '73 and they played the same suite as on Roxy.

Was I blown away ...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:51 am 
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Sorry for the old thread, but I had some thoughts that came up just now on these two. Mainly due to the extra material that came out of the Roxy sets and the movie as well.

So I've been just sampling the 7 disc set of Roxy and was a little annoyed at the sort of lesser guitar parts, in length. Then I watched the movie and it became clear to me why these are so different. Zappa was doing what naturally came to a musician. He has a lot of people on stage them gave them a lot of space.

Though the Helsinki set has sax, it is clearly a rock band plus percussion album, whereas the Roxy material is jazz heavy. It also had more "performance" type of elements, the stripper and all the other participation. There just was not that much room for extra playful stuff. Other than the Finnish elements on disc 2.

If you wanted to imagine the band on stage in the Helsinki sets, you would have to watch the Token Of His Extreme videos. That also has a Pygmy Twylyte that closely resembles the Helsinki version.

In Helsinki, there is a lot of stage banter, but nearly as much as in Roxy. Not that the audience was less able to "get" everything in Helsinki, but Zappa knew the songs that worked well everywhere and then the ones that were best left for US audiences when decorated with lengthier monologs and dialogs. Room Service in Helsinki, however, is my favorite of that ever. There are some cultural aspects that come out of that very well.

Zappa in Helsinki/Finland is explained in this column by two Finns.
https://www.palasokeri.com/artikkeli/1126

This thought process all came out because, even though I've had these songs in my head for decades, the last month or so I developed an obsession with Pygmy Twylyte that makes it almost as valuable as Inca Roads in my mind. I already was quite attached to Inca Roads when the LP of One Size came out, due to the Helsinki solo. I definitely did not have all the LPs when they came out, probably about 10-12 LPs in all before the CD era.

I'm Finnish so if you have any trivia you need explained in YCDTOSA vol 2, I will keep track of this thread. I was not at the concert, I was in Ohio at the time, but I did meet (and lose touch as he moved apartments) the Juhani of the link above. He gave me my first Zappa bootlegs (and the only ones I still have on CDR).

The tango Satumaa on Disc 2 in its original Finnish. An evergreen still sung at tango/dance events. This recording is from 1955. Accordion and strings was standard for all tango recordings. I prefer the accordion alone, with some minimal other instruments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMbOKgG_8gA


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:07 am 
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roxy is great but the hellsinki concert is epic!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:40 am 
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Tero wrote:
Zappa in Helsinki/Finland is explained in this column by two Finns.
https://www.palasokeri.com/artikkeli/1126


Tero, thanks for sharing...very interesting column!

Cheers,
Sami


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:03 am 
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captain_beerheart wrote:
roxy is great but the hellsinki concert is epic!

Well, duh! But apples and oranges.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:03 am 
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better comparison now is
road tapes no 2 vs ycdtosa vol 2
recorded about a year apart
i listen to tne road tapes more these days


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:50 am 
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Yeah, it's quite good. I am sorry to not have seen Zappa more than once. Both the other mid to late 70s chances (Madison, Berkeley) I was undergoing big changes at the time and did not attend due to very busy months at school and work. Anyway, I saw the Helsinki line up, so it is dear to me. From the concert (I have the set list) I remember clearly only
1 Stinkfoot
2 Zappa doing pantomime with a small portable mattress on stage, possibly some inflatable doll as well.

I was blown away by all the percussion live.

Speaking of Road Tapes, there is an impressive development in Zappa from Tapes 1 (and 3) to the later 2 as performer. Both singing and guitar. He was clearly into performing, not just composing and recording.


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