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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:53 pm 
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WOWIE ZOWIE!

THANKS JOE + ZFT for this awesome release! We didn't see that one coming! :shock:

Just watched the Roxy video!! It is the same I saw at the beginning of the Zappa Plays Zappa concert in Amsterdam!

The wonderful thing that happened there was that the whole audience was dancing and singing along with Montana...it was like FZ was there live. AMAZING EXPERIENCE!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:09 am 
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This looks great. Also looks similar in packaging to FZ:OZ......Cant wait....


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:24 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
A FULL SHOW!!! Thank you ZFT and fuck you Trendmonger!!


jaypfunk wrote:
Replete & Complete.

FUCK YOU TRENDY!!


I am in FULL SHOW HEAVEN!!!



I just had to at least rest for one day after this was announced to appreciate the release and Website Revamp Launch in my own way. It looks like Buffalo is ready to ship so many who have ordered will be getting the first pick from the heard that we can all listen to with our own favorite pair of ears. Personally I am glad to listen with my ears but so far the mouth of some forum members is Replete & Complete with the same old Bull Shit (get it honey) that we are used to seeing.

I am just as happy for every Zappa fan regarding the release of Buffalo and website revamp regardless if any given fan has the entire Official Catalogue, 1,000 AUDs or this is their first Zappa purchase. This new release being a full show on the Vaulternative label should not really be all that surprising to a fan who has been using their eyes and ears all along. Gail Zappa had publicly defined the general scope of Vaulternative Records just about 5 years ago. While there have been releases on Vaulternative that were not Full Shows any fan as I continue to encourage having a set of open eyes and ears can appreciate what is going on. In addition to the 06/12/2002 Launch Interview with Gail Zappa being interviewed by Pamela Des Barres there have been quite a few other interviews that revealed the plans of Vaulternative & Zappa records. One of my favorites is The Relix Interview that came out last year. Get your hands on that one.

FEATURE - Gail Zappa, Mother Of Invention
06/12/2002
http://www.geocities.com/pdoelder.geo/gailinterview.html

So my personal , let’s see, level of trust that Full Concert releases will be coming out on Vaulternative. You know the answer to that is Eyes & Ears.

Now my level of trust that each and every AUD downloading fan will purchase this and encourage the immediate removal of any representation of this concert that is not official. Well, I am sure that quite a few hard core fans like Jayp have already ordered Buffalo but Jayp's Fuck You Trendy attitude shows that his energies are devoted to, well let's see, Fuck You attitudes just as much as supporting the release.

I wonder why Jayp is not encouraging the removal of any given non-official representation of that Buffalo concert and that any given fan who ever downloaded an AUD or SBD of Buffalo (if it does exist) not only immediately poof it out of existence but immediately place an order with Barfko Swill. Now I am not saying that is what Jayp or any fan must do but I personally find it fitting given the circumstances.

I Repeltely and Completely thank Gail, Joe, Frank Fillipetti & all involved in

Buffalo Zappa
Official Release #80
Released: April Fool's Day 2007
Label: Vaulternative Records
Catalog Number: VR 2007-1
Produced by Frank Zappa

Musicians:
FZ: Lead Guitar & Vocals
Steve Vai: Stunt Guitar & Background Vocals
Ray White: Vocals & Rhythm Guitar
Ike Willis: Vocals & Rhythm Guitar
Tommy Mars: Keyboards & Vocals
Bob Harris: Keyboards, Trumpet & High Vocals
Arthur Barrow:* Bass & Vocals
Vinnie Colaiuta: Drums, Vocals

Music, Performance, Band & Recordings by Frank Zappa
Audience by Buffalo, New York


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:44 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
The only version of the Buffalo show that has ever been available is a very incomplete AUD tape

25-Oct 1980, Memorial Auditorium, Buffalo, NY
31 min, Aud, B-
Broken Hearts Are For Assholes, I'm So Cute, Andy, Joe's Garage, Dancin' Fool, Disco Meltdown

This release is a pure 100% golden treasure because of it's status as a show that has for the most part never been heard before. Don't spoil it with your Fagaskeptafagginess attitude Trendy.


Well I hope that so called Only Version Available AUD is poofed out of existence. Now that the ZFT as you say have made a Golden Treasure Available I see no reason whatsoever for the Free Trade of any AUD.

Yesterday I browsed a webpage here that seemed to make reference that this 2 CD Project made use of several tapes be it the 24 track Masters and some SBD Cassetes. They made mention of the difficult circumstances the recording engineer had at that time getting the recordings for that show to happen. It would be nice to find this once again to reference it properly but for the time being I'll loosly quote what was happening. I would expect the liner notes will spell it all out.

Regardless Frank Fillipetti worked his magic on the tapes so my opinion is that once there is an official project there should be no free trade of any AUD,SBD or Pirated Version of any manifestation of the Official Project.

Same goes for Trance Fusion. That tape that was pirated and feeely traded should no longer exist. The only Official release of Trance Fusion is Remixed & Remastered from that early Pirated Version that Frank Completed.

I remain confident that the ZFT will forever uphold the artistic integrity of FranK Zappa but any fan who lets any manifestation of that Buffalo show continue to be freely traded is well, Fucking with The Rights and Artistic Intent of the Artist.

It's nice that you were able to enjoy that Aud, B- Incomplete tape for all that time but it's time to poof it out of existence.

Jayp I sincerely state that I am very happy for you and every Zappa fan regarding this release.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:07 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The only version of the Buffalo show that has ever been available is a very incomplete AUD tape

25-Oct 1980, Memorial Auditorium, Buffalo, NY
31 min, Aud, B-
Broken Hearts Are For Assholes, I'm So Cute, Andy, Joe's Garage, Dancin' Fool, Disco Meltdown

This release is a pure 100% golden treasure because of it's status as a show that has for the most part never been heard before. Don't spoil it with your Fagaskeptafagginess attitude Trendy.


Well I hope that so called Only Version Available AUD is poofed out of existence. Now that the ZFT as you say have made a Golden Treasure Available I see no reason whatsoever for the Free Trade of any AUD.
Yesterday I browsed a webpage here that seemdd to make reference that this 2 CD Project made use of several tapes be it the 24 track Masters and some SBD Cassetes. They made mention of the difficult circumstances the recordign engineer hat at that time getting the recordigns for that show to happen. It would be nice to find this once again to reference it properly but fro the tiem beign I'll loosly quote what was happening. I would expect the liner notes will spell it all out.

Regardless Frank Fillipetti worked his magic on the tapes so my opinion is that onve there is an official ther shoudl be no trade of any AUD,SBD or pirated version of any manifestation of the Official Project.

I remain confident that the ZFT will forever uphold the artistic integrity of FranK Zappa but any fan who lets any manifestation of that Buffalo show continu to be freely traded is well fuckign with The Rights and Artistic Intent of the Artist.

It's nice that you were able to enjoy that Aud, B- Incomplete tape for all that time but it's time to poof it out of existence. Jayp I am very happy for you and every Zappa regarding this release.


Trading is FREE Trendy so it doesn't matter. Just because something is now offically release as a SBD from the recording truck tapes does not make the AUD recorded document extinct. As a collector there are many cases where an AUD recording will sound entirely differant than an offically released SBD. I will will continue to collect and listen to every possible version of every show I can get my hands on whether they are released officially or not. I some cases there are more than one AUD source for the same show and depending on the recording equipment and location of taper, these shows will sound differant from each other. I collect them all.


So if an artist records AUD (and they do, in addition to many other methods) and a fan illegally records an AUD (that is what most of what these Freely Traded versions are) then AUD Free trade of a fan AUD is legitimate?

Come on if I go to a movie and capture that movie on a Camcorder and start releasing it it is illegal even if I do not sell it. It is illegal to tape any show without the express written consent of the artist.

I attended FranK Zappa's last USA concert on Mar 24th 1988 at the Nassau Colisseum in Uniondale, NY. Let's say there were approximately 17,000 people in attendance including all the ticket sales and employess.
By your logic if every person there created there own AUD and if these 17,000 AUDs were freely traded you think it woudl be O.K to support the free trade of these 17,000 AUDs if the ZFT released an Official Product of the Full Show. Where is The Rigths Of The Artist. Where is the Artistic Integrity?

In these 17,000 Versions of AUD there is the Greatfull Dead Serfis version that was recorded in the Corrodor, there is the 25 row Orchestra tape flip version, then there is the lodge version where 1/2 the show is missing because the tapers head was cracked open like a canteloupe when a security guard noticed the tape unit, then there is the tape with two fans talking about Led Zeppelin for 25 minutes, then there is the who the fuck is this Zappa guy bring back Hot Tuna version, then there was why the fuck did Hot Tuna open up this could have been a 4 hour Zappa show version, then there is the version with some guy talking about Dweezi's Candy Apple Red Charvel, then there is the version with the toilet bowl flushing, then there is the you want a hit, this is the same dope fiend device seen in Baby Snakes version, then there is the I can't wait until some computer software comes out in 20 years that makes My Very Own Personal AUD the most saught after AUD..... There's 17,000 versions I can't list them all.

Any given recording may sound totally completely different for a variety of reasons and not just because what means were used to record it be it 4,5,8,16,24,48, SBD, AUD,IUD Hike.

The psot production work on a recording where ever those tapes come from make the Official Product sound the way the Artist & Producer intended for it to sound. I understand you like all this free trade and that you do purchase all the Official releases but there is something to be said for Rigths Of The Artist and Artistic Integrity. that is what I try to brign to fans attention time and time again.

You will do what you will do Jayp but in my opinion you show that you care little about the Artistic Integrity of Frank Zappa.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:13 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:21 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
So if an artist records AUD (and they do, in addition to many other methods) and a fan illegally records an AUD (that is what most of what these Freely Traded versions are) then AUD Free trade of a fan AUD is legitimate?

Come on if I go to a movie and capture that movie on a Camcorder and start releasing it it is illegal even if I do not sell it. It is illegal to tape any show without the express written consent of the artist.


I guess it has been establihed several times on this Forum, that it is not legal to own an Aud (or other non-official output). It is a product to which a person owns a copyright. As no money is involved in trading, it is, however, in the "grey area" where the prevention of other illegal stuff takes more priority by artists. You did recently (two days ago?) comment on this "grey area" concept. So stop tirading. We get you point.

BTW: I think the energy jaypfunk spends on a few "fuck you"s is vastly inferior to the amount of energy you put into your long and repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive posts.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:22 am 
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Hi folks!

Long time since i been at the forum now.. Had so much overtime work since new year, so that internett has not been high priority.

But i know for sure where some of my overtime money will go now :D

This is great news! Cant wait to get my hands on this and put it into the stereo :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:30 am 
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Pump-a-Loaf wrote:
Thank you ZFT!
Yes! Like I said elsewhere, "my only fear is that it will be more re-hashed 'You Are What You Is' material." Not so!

--Bat :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:32 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
So if an artist records AUD (and they do, in addition to many other methods) and a fan illegally records an AUD (that is what most of what these Freely Traded versions are) then AUD Free trade of a fan AUD is legitimate?

Come on if I go to a movie and capture that movie on a Camcorder and start releasing it it is illegal even if I do not sell it. It is illegal to tape any show without the express written consent of the artist.


I guess it has been establihed several times on this Forum, that it is not legal to own an Aud (or other non-official output). It is a product to which a person owns a copyright. As no money is involved in trading, it is, however, in the "grey area" where the prevention of other illegal stuff takes more priority by artists. You did recently (two days ago?) comment on this "grey area" concept. So stop tirading. We get you point.

BTW: I think the energy jaypfunk spends on a few "fuck you"s is vastly inferior to the amount of energy you put into your long and repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive posts.


Why am I long and repetetive?

Hmmm now let''s see.

The ZFT have spent Millions and Millions of Dollars upgrading the UMRK. They have teamed up with one of the best enginneers in the business Frank Fillipetti to work on some projects.

They know how to uphold the artistic integrity of FranK Zappa.

Unless the artist approves(some do, the ZFT have not) on any or continued Free trade I can only assume that such behavior is against the artists integrity or artistic rights.

In my opinion, any fan who freeely trades in any manifestation of Official Product shows no respect to the Artistic Integrity of the Artist or The Rigt of The Artist.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:34 am 
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There goes Trendy yet again ruining the moment. Can you please get off your soapbox and tell us some tales of sucking cock backstage at the Palladium?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:48 am 
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brainpang wrote:
There goes Trendy yet again ruining the moment. Can you please get off your soapbox and tell us some tales of sucking cock backstage at the Palladium?
He would but he gets all choked up recalling those days. :mrgreen:

--Bat :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:56 am 
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Really, man. Trendy needs to do a search for "4cd mofo" and really find out what illegal downloads are all about. Now those bastids ought to be shut down. The fan trading stuff? If the ZFT has a problem with the fan scene, let them deal with it and I will support their decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:59 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Why am I long and repetetive? (sic{k})


YEAH, EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE ALL WONDERING.. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:01 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Really, man. Trendy needs to do a search for "4cd mofo" and really find out what illegal downloads are all about. Now those bastids ought to be shut down. The fan trading stuff? If the ZFT has a problem with the fan scene, let them deal with it and I will support their decision.


I am aware of one in Russia and reported that to Gail.
I also was less than happy to see it being sold on E-bay.
I am not sure if the resale of Official Product is legal but let's just say that any sale of Official Product lacks any form of intergrity whatsoever.
That being a special product and olnly recently being released makes it even worse, Ah come on now people I don't care who you are have some class.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:04 am 
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Official Proooooooooooduct, bwahahahahahhahahaha!!! tithead.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 am 
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Just procured some moolah and bought it. Can't wait for it to arrive 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:18 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The only version of the Buffalo show that has ever been available is a very incomplete AUD tape

25-Oct 1980, Memorial Auditorium, Buffalo, NY
31 min, Aud, B-
Broken Hearts Are For Assholes, I'm So Cute, Andy, Joe's Garage, Dancin' Fool, Disco Meltdown

This release is a pure 100% golden treasure because of it's status as a show that has for the most part never been heard before. Don't spoil it with your Fagaskeptafagginess attitude Trendy.


Well I hope that so called Only Version Available AUD is poofed out of existence. Now that the ZFT as you say have made a Golden Treasure Available I see no reason whatsoever for the Free Trade of any AUD.
Yesterday I browsed a webpage here that seemdd to make reference that this 2 CD Project made use of several tapes be it the 24 track Masters and some SBD Cassetes. They made mention of the difficult circumstances the recordign engineer hat at that time getting the recordigns for that show to happen. It would be nice to find this once again to reference it properly but fro the tiem beign I'll loosly quote what was happening. I would expect the liner notes will spell it all out.

Regardless Frank Fillipetti worked his magic on the tapes so my opinion is that onve there is an official ther shoudl be no trade of any AUD,SBD or pirated version of any manifestation of the Official Project.

I remain confident that the ZFT will forever uphold the artistic integrity of FranK Zappa but any fan who lets any manifestation of that Buffalo show continu to be freely traded is well fuckign with The Rights and Artistic Intent of the Artist.

It's nice that you were able to enjoy that Aud, B- Incomplete tape for all that time but it's time to poof it out of existence. Jayp I am very happy for you and every Zappa regarding this release.


Trading is FREE Trendy so it doesn't matter. Just because something is now offically release as a SBD from the recording truck tapes does not make the AUD recorded document extinct. As a collector there are many cases where an AUD recording will sound entirely differant than an offically released SBD. I will will continue to collect and listen to every possible version of every show I can get my hands on whether they are released officially or not. I some cases there are more than one AUD source for the same show and depending on the recording equipment and location of taper, these shows will sound differant from each other. I collect them all.


So if an artist records AUD (and they do, in addition to many other methods) and a fan illegally records an AUD (that is what most of what these Freely Traded versions are) then AUD Free trade of a fan AUD is legitimate?

Come on if I go to a movie and capture that movie on a Camcorder and start releasing it it is illegal even if I do not sell it. It is illegal to tape any show without the express written consent of the artist.

Any given recording may sound totally completely different for a variety of reasons and not just because what means were used to record it be it 4,5,8,16,24,48, SBD, AUD,IUD Hike.

The psot production work on a recording where ever those tapes come from make the Official Product sound the way the Artist & Producer intended for it to sound. I understand you like all this free trade and that you do purchase all the Official releases but there is something to be said for Rigths Of The Artist and Artistic Integrity. that is what I try to brign to fans attention time and time again.

You will do what you will do Jayp but in my opinion you show that you care little about the Artistic Integrity of Frank Zappa.


:roll: Yeah I don't care.... Someone like me who collects and listens to mulitple copies of the same show doesn't care about the artist. hahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa :roll:

STFU already. No matter how many examples I give as to why I enjoy the music you will never get it.


It's not that you don't care about the artist. I beleive you are a bonafied a Zappa fanatic. I i know you want to hear everything and anything Official Or Not by just about any means possible but many of these means just do not given any respect to the artist rigths or artistic integrity especialy once Oficial releases are released.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:20 am 
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Tom29 wrote:
Just procured some moolah and bought it. Can't wait for it to arrive 8)


Good for you Tom, I hope you enjoy it. You really have purcahsed alot of Zappa over a short period of time.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:25 am 
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Generally, it's all I've cared to spend money on in the past two years. I consider it a very worthy investment of time and money 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:30 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Really, man. Trendy needs to do a search for "4cd mofo" and really find out what illegal downloads are all about. Now those bastids ought to be shut down. The fan trading stuff? If the ZFT has a problem with the fan scene, let them deal with it and I will support their decision.


I am aware of one in Russia and reported that to Gail.
I also was less than happy to see it being sold on E-bay.
I am not sure if the resale of Official Product is legal but let's just say that any sale of Official Product lacks any form of intergrity whatsoever.
That being a special product and olnly recently being released makes it even worse, Ah come on now people I don't care who you are have some class.


So if I'm ever in desperate need of cash I should let my children starve before selling MY PROPERTY? You've really lost it, chum. Make yourself useful and go track Al Queda or something...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:56 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Really, man. Trendy needs to do a search for "4cd mofo" and really find out what illegal downloads are all about. Now those bastids ought to be shut down. The fan trading stuff? If the ZFT has a problem with the fan scene, let them deal with it and I will support their decision.


I am aware of one in Russia and reported that to Gail.
I also was less than happy to see it being sold on E-bay.
I am not sure if the resale of Official Product is legal but let's just say that any sale of Official Product lacks any form of intergrity whatsoever.
That being a special product and olnly recently being released makes it even worse, Ah come on now people I don't care who you are have some class.


So if I'm ever in desperate need of cash I should let my children starve before selling MY PROPERTY? You've really lost it, chum. Make yourself useful and go track Al Queda or something...


If you are ever in that situation I would sincerely feel bad for you and hope that your pocessions of value of selling were something quite different to Official FranK Zappa merchandise. As far as anyone selling Official merchandise that may or may not be a legal action. I beleive buying a CD only gives you the right to listen to the CD in private use. Resale or public performacne may require soething quite different than just buying the item. It is not YOUR PROPERTY for resale. I beleive it is only for PRIVATE LISTENING.

As far as the individual (no name calling here) who I noticed selling the Big MOFO on E-bay it is to the best of my understanding that this individual in no way whatsoever was desperate for cash to support their starving children but moreso possibly just adding another item to their personal Freak Out Trend of Merchadise that hey wer selling on E-Bay. It quickly was removed before the bid time was over and without naming names it was probably just that indivuduals mometary lack of reasoning in deciding to sell it with a bunch of other stuff E-bay. I think they just removed the item from the sale out of respect to the artist once they realized it was wrong in the first place. If indeed this is the case, which is of a very high probability, Ii give that person credit for comming to terms with the correcting the so called wrong intent of non authorized sale of Big MOFO.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:01 am 
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Could someone with an authoritative knowledge about US copyright laws please step in and settle the score? All this is just too much opinionated crap! Please, just the fact. I don't care anout your feelings. Just facts, just for once!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:18 am 
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the sale of a CD from your personal collection is not illegal assuming

a.) that you have NOT copied it in anyway

and

b.) have not distributed copies (if any)

However, if somebody is selling copies of a disc (i.e. the Russian Federation ones floating around), that is illegal. Technically, any trading/downloading etc... of bootleg recordings is illegal. If someone were to buy something from Barfko-Swill, listen to it once, NOT copy it, and then put it on eBay (the Big MOFO from this thread for example), then that would be legal. Since the person purchased the disc, it becomes their personal property to do with as they please barring any sort of copyright infringement. In fact, every CD released nowadays has an impilicit warning detailing all of the ways that someone could infringe on copyright.

So, in summary:

Downloading any bootlegs (zappateers), officially released material (bitTorrent), or videos (you tube) is by any account illegal and causes the ZFT to lose money

Sales of any CDs from a personal collection, assuming they have not been copied in some way, is perfectly legal. Any used music store will also only give you "fair market value" for any disc. So, you sell a disc, get a maximum of $4 (a loss for the store), which they then sell for $8 (hopefully making a $4 profit when the CD sells). The stores, in fact, generally take a loss on this which is why trade values are higher than cash values.

Ebay is an online market place. Sure, it's evil and all sorts of illegal things go on there, but with this (BIG MOFO), that is not the case.

And BTW, when the CD was originally purchased, the artist receieves the royalty. After that, that particular unit is no longer "on the books" and becomes the property of its purchaser. Therefore, when it is sold, it becomes the property of the store or individual it is sold to.
Interestingly enough, the artist sees the least amount of money from a CD sale. 60% goes to the head of the company, 35% goes to the staff who recorded the disc, 3% is for misc fees, and the artist is lucky to see 2% of the sales.
Hope this helps clarify some things. I learned many of these things from Media Law classes in college and from speaking with lawyers over the last 5 years. I am not an authority on this, but I have presented the knowledge to you to the best of my understanding.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:21 am 
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addendum to the previous post:

Anyone know if this will be available through actual stores as opposed to only Barfco? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:22 am 
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Trendy. You're spouting rubbish, as usual. When you buy a CD, of COURSE it's your property.

Let's get back to the excitement and anticipation of the new CD instead of the ramblings of an incoherent idiot. (Yes that's YOU!)

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