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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:22 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Yeah Mikey why don't you ban me.
Maybe the ZFT should include an AUD with every Official Release or offer it as a download for $5. Not at all what I want to listen to but the ZFT deserve a little something extra on that whole AUD market.


Hey I partially agree with you fuckface, except they should go ahead and put all their show for download in SBD format. releasing a few on actual hard copies which are "from the vault" (i.e. mastered from much higher sources, extremely important to zappology, or 5.1 material.) I would much rather listen to these shows in better quality ythan AUD's and the ZFT makes their money. And zappateers and co. can't trade them because of their "no official releases" policy.

I don't listen to bootlegs thinking "YES THIS WAS FREE!! HOORAY FUCK FRANK I HOPE HIS FAMILY STARVES!!" Instead it is more like "This is awesome...... GODDAMN TAPE FLIP!!! I MISSED HALF OF POUND FOR A BROWN. I wish the ZFT would release this."

And even more importantly, I HATE DIGITAL DOWNLOADS, I think burnt cd's make my cd case look unorganized (i am slightly OCD) so if they did what the history channel does and make a hard copy to order of any of their progamming with a cover (maybe a dick's pick style 'have all the covers match') and a cd printed label they could charge even more and I would pay even more and the world would... thats right, it would still spin. No floods, no hurricanes, just earthly rotation.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:29 am 
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It is more than a hobby for me, it is all my life 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:32 am 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Yeah Mikey why don't you ban me.
Maybe the ZFT should include an AUD with every Official Release or offer it as a download for $5. Not at all what I want to listen to but the ZFT deserve a little something extra on that whole AUD market.


Hey I partially agree with you fuckface, except they should go ahead and put all their show for download in SBD format. releasing a few on actual hard copies which are "from the vault" (i.e. mastered from much higher sources, extremely important to zappology, or 5.1 material.) I would much rather listen to these shows in better quality ythan AUD's and the ZFT makes their money. And zappateers and co. can't trade them because of their "no official releases" policy.



Fuckface the mirror.

Has Zappateers removed the Buffalo B- AUD.
Will everyone who downloaded that poof it out of existance.

I am not so sure that it is proper for FranK Zappa's artistic integrity to release several thopusand AUD,SBDs or works-in-progress as is. It is up to the ZFT to decide what to releases. I just make mention becaue the artist derserves revenue from anything that the artist ever did that is beign circulated free or not.

I am confident the ZFT do a thorough analysis on each project they release giving consideration to Frank Zappa's artistic integrity. With some projects one never knows for sure exactly what Frank would have done but as we can see, the Major UMRK studio upgrades, Vaulternative & Zappa Records, DVD-A, DVD, Barfko Swill moving to Music Today, Zappa.com,The new Ant Hill Trading merchandizing licensing partnership with the ZFT, The ZPZ Tour. The Project/Object is definitely moving forward.

I really am 100% confident that Gail puts 24/7/365(6) into protecting FranK Zappa's artistic inztegrity.

I really am going to try and rest now,


Peace


Last edited by Trendmonger on Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:36 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Grimpoteuthis wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Yeah Mikey why don't you ban me.
Maybe the ZFT should include an AUD with every Official Release or offer it as a download for $5. Not at all what I want to listen to but the ZFT deserve a little something extra on that whole AUD market.


Hey I partially agree with you fuckface, except they should go ahead and put all their show for download in SBD format. releasing a few on actual hard copies which are "from the vault" (i.e. mastered from much higher sources, extremely important to zappology, or 5.1 material.) I would much rather listen to these shows in better quality ythan AUD's and the ZFT makes their money. And zappateers and co. can't trade them because of their "no official releases" policy.



Fuckface the mirror.

Has Zappateers removed the Buffalo B- AUD.
Will everyone who downloaded that poof it out of existance.

I am not so sure that it is proper for FranK Zappa's artistic integrity to release several thopusand AUD,SBDs or works-in-progress as is. It is up to the ZFT to decide what to releases. I just make mention becaue the artist derserves revenue from anything that the artist ever did that is beign circulated free or not.

I am confident the ZFT do a thorough analysis on each project they release givign consideration to franK Zapap's artistic integrity. With soem projects oen never knows fro sure exactly what Frank would have done but as we can see, the major studio upgrades, Vaulternative & Zappa Records, DVD-A, DVD, Barfko Swill moving to Music Today, The new Ant Hill Trading merchandizing licensing partnership with the ZFT, ZPZ .

I realy am 100% confuident that gail puts 24/7/365(6) into protecting FranK Zappa's artistic integrity.

I really am going to try and rest now,


Peace


Trendy: Remember your post above about your "friend" who advised you not to waste your time with the idiot's? GET THE HINT, he's trying to help you stop being an ass. Damn, man. You are one sick fellow.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:37 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Grimpoteuthis wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Yeah Mikey why don't you ban me.
Maybe the ZFT should include an AUD with every Official Release or offer it as a download for $5. Not at all what I want to listen to but the ZFT deserve a little something extra on that whole AUD market.


Hey I partially agree with you fuckface, except they should go ahead and put all their show for download in SBD format. releasing a few on actual hard copies which are "from the vault" (i.e. mastered from much higher sources, extremely important to zappology, or 5.1 material.) I would much rather listen to these shows in better quality ythan AUD's and the ZFT makes their money. And zappateers and co. can't trade them because of their "no official releases" policy.



Fuckface the mirror.


Ok, now THAT was funny :mrgreen:

The rest was re-hash, a sampler, if you will, of all of Trendy's previous 1400+ posts.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:20 am 
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Trendmonger, I question your views that people who download shows hurt the sales of the official product. In regards to your opinion and this thread, it seems folks like JAYP and others collect shows AND purchase the official products. JAYP seems to be first in line to order and pre-order official products when they are offered. I personally feel that if folks love FZ's music enough to download shows, they love it enough to buy the official material as well. And wasn't some of the missing pieces on the OZ material filled in with *gasp* audience tapes? Personally, I just wish we could focus on the Buffalo thread proper. Hopefully, once MusicToday.com ships the damn thing, we can talk about the MUSIC and not all this other horseshit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:29 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Trennasol wrote:
Trendmonger, I question your views that people who download shows hurt the sales of the official product. In regards to your opinion and this thread, it seems folks like JAYP and others collect shows AND purchase the official products. JAYP seems to be first in line to order and pre-order official products when they are offered. I personally feel that if folks love FZ's music enough to download shows, they love it enough to buy the official material as well. And wasn't some of the missing pieces on the OZ material filled in with *gasp* audience tapes? Personally, I just wish we could focus on the Buffalo thread proper. Hopefully, once MusicToday.com ships the damn thing, we can talk about the MUSIC and not all this other horseshit.


I started FZ live show tape collecting/trading in 1987.

You are correct about OZ. If were NOT for the taper we'd be missing that small but yet very important piece of that show.


I made this very argument, about OZ. He spun his bullshit, about it being official, and blah blah blah on and on for like 5 paragraphs, never actually saying anything.
:roll:

I’d search for it, but I’m sure he’ll be here soon to re-hash it for you himself.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:47 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trennasol wrote:
Trendmonger, I question your views that people who download shows hurt the sales of the official product. In regards to your opinion and this thread, it seems folks like JAYP and others collect shows AND purchase the official products. JAYP seems to be first in line to order and pre-order official products when they are offered. I personally feel that if folks love FZ's music enough to download shows, they love it enough to buy the official material as well. And wasn't some of the missing pieces on the OZ material filled in with *gasp* audience tapes? Personally, I just wish we could focus on the Buffalo thread proper. Hopefully, once MusicToday.com ships the damn thing, we can talk about the MUSIC and not all this other horseshit.


I started FZ live show tape collecting/trading in 1987.

You are correct about OZ. If were NOT for the taper we'd be missing that small but yet very important piece of that show.


I made this very argument, about OZ. He spun his bullshit, about it being official, and blah blah blah on and on for like 5 paragraphs, never actually saying anything.
:roll:

I’d search for it, but I’m sure he’ll be here soon to re-hash it for you himself.


I am just glad that an audience tape existed so that the ZFT could use it and that should also tell Trendy something about it too. That his hatred and objection of "polished turds" is obviously not shared by the ZFT given the fact that they indeed used one to fill a missing part of an official release.


I am glad too.
And if memory serves me correctly the liner notes thank the person who supplied the AUD tape so that the project could be completed.
It's ok, you and I both know that people who trade shows (or download them) buy new product when it's released. It's almost too obvious for words. I can't imagine spending a huge bulk of my free time listening to full shows (as conducted by the composer and therefore implying a degree of artistic intent), but scoff at a new official release.

As much as I flack them, I do hope that the ZFT come around to a way of selling us high-quality shows from the vault, be it SBD a matrix of Aud/SBD or high quality Aud.
When I think of all the shows in there that are not in circulation....man.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:06 am 
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Like most of us, can't wait for Buffalo. Like many of us, I collect shows, but buy most everything ZFT produces, despite taking extreme exception to some of their, um, business practices (ie, suing project/object, etc) which has been posted about many, many times.

The argument about tape trading is really fucking silly. The Zappa "scene" for lack of a better word, remains fairly limited. The people who care enough to tape trade do not pose a problem for the ZFT, believe me. The fact people remain interested enough in the music (of a composer 10 years gone) is GOOD for ZFT (as was/is Project/Object's efforts - sorry, can't help it). Guarantee most people who will tape trade will be more than happy to get their hands on quality material and will buy it. Indeed, getting our hands on those shows is the whole fucking point in the first place and official releases are both welcomed and quickly purchased. Enough said there.

People have mentioned the 23 minute Torture as one of the tracks that stands out. Sure does. I suspect it's really Torture/Heavy Duty Judy/Torture. I have a 11/17/80 show from Minneapolis with the track and I love it, although the recording isn't the greatest. The lead during Judy is just great. If this observation has been made previously, forgive me, but, unfortunately, I cannot sift through Schillmonger's nonsense to read the worthwhile posts in this thread.

Which brings me to you, Schillmonger. Everyone here knows what you are; a schill and a tool. Consider the advice of a very wise man who once told me that if everyone thinks you are a dick, it's because you are. Schill, everyone thinks you're a dick. We aren't all wrong. Please go back to the toolbox from whence you came.

Be nice to hear from the rest of you about Buffalo!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:12 am 
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Yeah, this crap about artists losing money from bootlegs is pure fantasy. The more people are exposed to an artist's work, the more likely they are to buy every official release they can get their hands on (if the work is any good).

For a perfect example from recent history, the band Wilco's 2002 album Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was leaked by somebody well before the release date. Rather than piss and moan about it, the band streamed the entire official release from their website for free. Consequently, many people checked it out on the web, liked what they heard, and bought the CD. The result: Wilco's biggest-selling album ever, over 400,000 copies.

Any self-respecting fan will buy a quality official recording of a concert. It's a no brainer. But this bullshit about trading being illegal is just that: bullshit. If I trade a burned CD for a burned CD, I haven't "profited" off anybody. Period. It's like saying I'm stealing if I go into Barnes and Noble and read a magazine article without buying the goddamn magazine. Or that if I trade my Snicker's bar for your Milky Way, Hershey should get a cut of the profits. Huh??


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:17 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Funny you should mention that.... On the new Apos/OS Classic Albums DVD there is a tour of the vault given by Jow and he shows some of the tape boxes. One of them is a Mothers 1968 Whisky A Go-Go show that he says FZ prepared at one time for a live release. That show was from July 23rd 1968 and God Bless America (Live at the Whisky A Go Go) from Uncle Meat is from that show. That would be a total fucking gem of a Vault release as there is NO live show of that one at all in circulation.


hahahhahhahahhaahahhahhahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaha
hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahhahahhaha
hhahahhahahhahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:40 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trennasol wrote:
Trendmonger, I question your views that people who download shows hurt the sales of the official product. In regards to your opinion and this thread, it seems folks like JAYP and others collect shows AND purchase the official products. JAYP seems to be first in line to order and pre-order official products when they are offered. I personally feel that if folks love FZ's music enough to download shows, they love it enough to buy the official material as well. And wasn't some of the missing pieces on the OZ material filled in with *gasp* audience tapes? Personally, I just wish we could focus on the Buffalo thread proper. Hopefully, once MusicToday.com ships the damn thing, we can talk about the MUSIC and not all this other horseshit.


I started FZ live show tape collecting/trading in 1987.

You are correct about OZ. If were NOT for the taper we'd be missing that small but yet very important piece of that show.


I made this very argument, about OZ. He spun his bullshit, about it being official, and blah blah blah on and on for like 5 paragraphs, never actually saying anything.
:roll:

I’d search for it, but I’m sure he’ll be here soon to re-hash it for you himself.


I am just glad that an audience tape existed so that the ZFT could use it and that should also tell Trendy something about it too. That his hatred and objection of "polished turds" is obviously not shared by the ZFT given the fact that they indeed used one to fill a missing part of an official release.


I am glad too.
And if memory serves me correctly the liner notes thank the person who supplied the AUD tape so that the project could be completed.
It's ok, you and I both know that people who trade shows (or download them) buy new product when it's released. It's almost too obvious for words. I can't imagine spending a huge bulk of my free time listening to full shows (as conducted by the composer and therefore implying a degree of artistic intent), but scoff at a new official release.

As much as I flack them, I do hope that the ZFT come around to a way of selling us high-quality shows from the vault, be it SBD a matrix of Aud/SBD or high quality Aud.
When I think of all the shows in there that are not in circulation....man.


Funny you should mention that.... On the new Apos/OS Classic Albums DVD there is a tour of the vault given by Jow and he shows some of the tape boxes. One of them is a Mothers 1968 Whisky A Go-Go show that he says FZ prepared at one time for a live release. That show was from July 23rd 1968 and God Bless America (Live at the Whisky A Go Go) from Uncle Meat is from that show. That would be a total fucking gem of a Vault release as there is NO live show of that one at all in circulation.


Yeah I would love to hear that show. Especially if FZ put some time into it. I have a very soft spot for the original MOI.
And that little live nugget in the Big MOFO was definitely a step in the right direction.
There seems to be many, many great shows that must be in the vault.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any Roxy shows in circulation right? (Aside from Edinboro if you count that due to R&E). Putting the DVD aside a box set of those shows in just audio would rule.
And the Royce Hall shows. I have only heard the show from the 18th, so I haven't heard both shows. But what I've heard of the second show, that too would be a kick ass addition to the official cannon.

I am so excited about Buffalo. It almost makes me want to dream a little of what might be yet to come. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:51 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
why so funny?


just that they've g-got to GOT TO [LOL] have so many more tapes that the community -- that has been working for years to compile -- doesn't have a CLUE about. So many people so many years all over the damn place, checking newspaper clips in the library and double writing out tape inserts and stuff for YEARS!!! and Joe and Dweezil in there with their high dollar ammonia sifting it all out , putting in the NUENDO . . . it's a just a surreal world I guess.

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Last edited by punknaynowned on Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:59 am 
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right! it just make me giggle like a little kid . . . especially hints of that early mother's stuff -- I can't tell ya why hahhahhahhaaaaa

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:08 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
right! it just make me giggle like a little kid . . . especially hints of that early mother's stuff -- I can't tell ya why hahhahhahhaaaaa


you're lucky to get to see that other earlier, but I can wait for it :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:15 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
BillDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
BillDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:


I am just glad that an audience tape existed so that the ZFT could use it and that should also tell Trendy something about it too. That his hatred and objection of "polished turds" is obviously not shared by the ZFT given the fact that they indeed used one to fill a missing part of an official release.


I am glad too.
And if memory serves me correctly the liner notes thank the person who supplied the AUD tape so that the project could be completed.
It's ok, you and I both know that people who trade shows (or download them) buy new product when it's released. It's almost too obvious for words. I can't imagine spending a huge bulk of my free time listening to full shows (as conducted by the composer and therefore implying a degree of artistic intent), but scoff at a new official release.

As much as I flack them, I do hope that the ZFT come around to a way of selling us high-quality shows from the vault, be it SBD a matrix of Aud/SBD or high quality Aud.
When I think of all the shows in there that are not in circulation....man.


Funny you should mention that.... On the new Apos/OS Classic Albums DVD there is a tour of the vault given by Jow and he shows some of the tape boxes. One of them is a Mothers 1968 Whisky A Go-Go show that he says FZ prepared at one time for a live release. That show was from July 23rd 1968 and God Bless America (Live at the Whisky A Go Go) from Uncle Meat is from that show. That would be a total fucking gem of a Vault release as there is NO live show of that one at all in circulation.


Yeah I would love to hear that show. Especially if FZ put some time into it. I have a very soft spot for the original MOI.
And that little live nugget in the Big MOFO was definitely a step in the right direction.
There seems to be many, many great shows that must be in the vault.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any Roxy shows in circulation right? (Aside from Edinboro if you count that due to R&E). Putting the DVD aside a box set of those shows in just audio would rule.
And the Royce Hall shows. I have only heard the show from the 18th, so I haven't heard both shows. But what I've heard of the second show, that too would be a kick ass addition to the official cannon.

I am so excited about Buffalo. It almost makes me want to dream a little of what might be yet to come. :mrgreen:


It's a crime that only part of one show was taped.

9/10?-Dec 1973, The Roxy, Hollywood, CA
57 min, Aud, B
Cosmik Debris, Pygmy Twylyte, Idiot Bastard Son, Cheepnis, Penguin In Bondage, T'Mershi Duween, Dog Meat, RDNZL, Montana, Dupree's Paradise

The Complete Roxy Shows Box Set including all 3 shows complete on both audio and video is something I've been talking about for years.


Wow, how did I miss that? I could have sworn I hadn't seen any Roxy shows on JN's site.
I stand corrected.
Do you have this show? And if so, how is the sound in your opinion. I find that sometimes my ears hear shows better than their rating.

I know you posted after the ZPZ show that they didn't play the Roxy footage, what do you think of it now that it's posted?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:17 pm 
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Wow! It's nice to see some discussion of actual MUSIC! Shhhhhh. Let's not wake Trendy from his nap.
Carry on. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:21 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
I am just glad that an audience tape existed so that the ZFT could use it and that should also tell Trendy something about it too. That his hatred and objection of "polished turds" is obviously not shared by the ZFT given the fact that they indeed used one to fill a missing part of an official release.


I bet ya anything that the Vaultmeister has long used the Zappateers site as a reference tool, if not a SOUND tool. The fans are the best source of documenting history. Zappateers deserves nothing but praise. Even if ya don't download, the wealth of written information is priceless.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:30 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
I am just glad that an audience tape existed so that the ZFT could use it and that should also tell Trendy something about it too. That his hatred and objection of "polished turds" is obviously not shared by the ZFT given the fact that they indeed used one to fill a missing part of an official release.


I bet ya anything that the Vaultmeister has long used the Zappateers site as a reference tool, if not a SOUND tool. The fans are the best source of documenting history. Zappateers deserves nothing but praise. Even if ya don't download, the wealth of written information is priceless.


Agreed.
There are some there that when you see their names attached to a show you can be sure that their info and analysis is going to be spot on.
I often find myself going back to a show's link there for added info when I listen to a show. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Hey, all. I'm not sure if anyone else has checked their Barfko-Swill account, but according to the B-S site, my Buffalo has been shipped. I think it must have been a very short time ago, as the USPS site does not yet offer tracking on the order (usually meaning it hasn't entered the system yet because it was only shipped a short time ago in the past day; at least, that's what I'm hoping). So, I'm sure I'm not the only one, so everyone should check their order statuses on Barfko-Swill.

Yippee!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:42 pm 
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I cant believe I've read all this shit...

and Trendy, please... you dont need to rest - you need to let it rest...



IB :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:06 pm 
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Sweet! Just checked my status and it says mine has been shipped as well! In a few days we'll be talking about the show proper. Can't wait!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:17 pm 
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I say we give Trendmonger his own Section under the General Forum. Just title it: Trendmonger's Moment of Clarity or something. Then he's free to post whatever he wants and the rest of us don't have to scroll until our fingers/thumbs are blue due to his posts, and people quoting his posts.

And yes. Let's have Mikey stickify some more Buffalage (or Buffalocity) so we can get on with the music.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:20 pm 
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Location: South wales
got too agree this is one killer release..full show official zappa sound just about as good has it gets :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 36578
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
You may have noticed the bulk of Trendmonger's essays are in response to posted comments about them. Rather than react to the posts in the thread, go to Randomonium, the "Any Downers" poll, and add your comments. That's why it's there. That should limit the digressions in all the other threads. And don't forget to vote!! (you don't even have to register.) :lol:

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