Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:34 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 306 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:05 pm
Posts: 3819
Location: where the dogs roll by
I think there are probably lots of FZ songs that could be easily made into rap songs, however I do not think that the songs as FZ recorded them in and of themselves constitute rap music. Point taken about Dumb All Over being a rap in terms of the vocals, but I still wouldn't consider it rap music per say.

Some of the older stuff like Trouble Every Day is more attuned to blues than rap imo.

A lot of Dylan stuff is like this, Subterranean Homesick Blues, for example. I always thought that would make a great rap song, but it is not in and of itself a rap song, it is more rooted in blues.

The sprechstimme "interpretation" also happens to be Frank's interpretation, no?

_________________
I can't tell when you're telling the truth.
>I'm not.
How do I know anything you've said to me is...
>You don't.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 7831
Location: exile
sleeping in a jar wrote:
I think there are probably lots of FZ songs that could be easily made into rap songs, however I do not think that the songs as FZ recorded them in and of themselves constitute rap music. Point taken about Dumb All Over being a rap in terms of the vocals, but I still wouldn't consider it rap music per say.

Some of the older stuff like Trouble Every Day is more attuned to blues than rap imo.

A lot of Dylan stuff is like this, Subterranean Homesick Blues, for example. I always thought that would make a great rap song, but it is not in and of itself a rap song, it is more rooted in blues.

I totally agree.

sleeping in a jar wrote:
The sprechstimme "interpretation" also happens to be Frank's interpretation, no?

of course. and note that he says:

Quote:
FZ: But I don't think he [Schoenberg] invented it because this is a type of vocal styling that has been used in Blues. It's also been used in other types of ethnic music. You can find it in Bulgarian music where, instead of exactly singing the note, you imply the pitch of the note, but you're really talking it. It's in between.

_________________
"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2266
Quote:
FZ NEVER DID RAP MUSIC, AS IN REPETITIVE BEATS, STUPID FUCKING RHYMES, SAMPLES OF OTHER PEOPLES MUSIC, AND JUST PLAIN TALENTLESS SHIT.

IF ANYONE ON THIS FORUM EQUATES FZ WITH TODAY'S RAP OR HIP HOP, YOU NEED TO KILL YOURSELF.


Of course what Zappa did wasn't pure rap. Don't fuck around, no one is saying it is. But he was an undeniable influence on the genre.

Sampling? Zappa sampled all the damn time. You could even call his quotations 'samples' if you want, but even in his tape pieces...SAMPLES.

"Stupid fucking rhymes" is a matter of taste, and I'll point out two things. Not all rap is on the radio. If you want to judge it based off of that, guess what? Pretty much every fucking genre of music is a piece of shit.

Repetitive beats? I dunno, Zappa has songs which are just the same melody again and again. Inca Roads has a great opening beat/riff/whatever.

Zappa's not 'rap' anymore than he's 'classical' or 'jazz' or 'rock'. He did, however, rap. And I beg you to give some rap that's not on the radio a try- I could imagine you saying Jazz sucked if all you heard was Kenny G.

(And it's impossible to deny that Promiscuous is a RAP SONG.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5793
Location: Closer than I Appear
FeralCats wrote:
Sampling? Zappa sampled all the damn time. You could even call his quotations 'samples' if you want, but even in his tape pieces...SAMPLES.


...not to mention all those Samplers he put out....

sorry, couldn't resist. :wink:

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 4237
FeralCats wrote:
Quote:
But he was an undeniable influence on the genre.


That being FZ and rap. Please explain! Are there rap artists whom have credited him as an inspiration? I'd say the newer breed may have been influenced, but that is very late in the game to make a statement (which you did not) saying: "Frank Zappa was an influence on Rap." Who knows, maybe Grandmaster Flash owned Over-nite Sensation? Anyway, I bet Johnny Guitar Watson was a bigger influence than Frank. Hmmm, I can remember being in Joey Psychotic's record shop when young, black youth were digging the opening riff to the 7" version of "My Guitar." Or maybe Joey just told me that? Or maybe it was in Darmstadt? See, the mind goes pretty easily...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:23 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
I THINK YOU CRETINS HAVE OUTDONE YOURSELVES WITH THIS ONE.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2266
brainpang wrote:
FeralCats wrote:
Quote:
But he was an undeniable influence on the genre.


That being FZ and rap. Please explain! Are there rap artists whom have credited him as an inspiration? I'd say the newer breed may have been influenced, but that is very late in the game to make a statement (which you did not) saying: "Frank Zappa was an influence on Rap." Who knows, maybe Grandmaster Flash owned Over-nite Sensation? Anyway, I bet Johnny Guitar Watson was a bigger influence than Frank. Hmmm, I can remember being in Joey Psychotic's record shop when young, black youth were digging the opening riff to the 7" version of "My Guitar." Or maybe Joey just told me that? Or maybe it was in Darmstadt? See, the mind goes pretty easily...


Okay, okay, this is true..
I still stand by my statements that:
1. Rap does not, by nature, suck.
2. Zappa did rap at least once.

And that's all.

EDIT: "Holds water" was the wrong term and it was bugging me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 479
FeralCats wrote:
If you want to judge it based off of that, guess what? Pretty much every fucking genre of music is a piece of shit.



Like I said in that other thread, you're brighter than most people.

_________________
http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/evitageN/oo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:21 am
Posts: 3044
Location: SLS
Little Miss Muffett
Sat on a Tuffett
Eatin' dem curds n whey

Long comes a spider
Sits down beside her
Scares that Bitch away


Now you just have to add in a line about killing a cop , screwing a white bitch and getting shot.....

NOW .. you got a c-rap song

Hey . EVERYBODY can get down with that up shit..... hommie...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:33 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
THROW IN THE USE OF THE WORD DISREPECT.

THE STUPIDEST WORD IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

DIS MY BITCH.

DIS MY DOG.

DIS ME.

"DISRESPECTING" SOMEONE SEEMS TO BE A WORSE OFFENSE THAN MURDER.

THESE "PEOPLE" ARE NO BETTER THAN TERRORISTS.

THEY ARE ANIMALS.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
TRULY INSPIRATIONAL.

:twisted:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:21 am
Posts: 3044
Location: SLS
The FUNK you say

Dat man knows of where he speaks Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2266
Oh yeah, and this bit from the Baby Snakes version of Titties&Beer is a rap

Quote:
You can have my soul
It's a mean little sucker
'Bout a thousand years old
But once you gets it
You can't give it back
You gotta keep it forever
An' that's a natural fact!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:40 pm
Posts: 7134
Location: South wales
pedro1 wrote:
Little Miss Muffett
Sat on a Tuffett
Eatin' dem curds n whey

Long comes a spider
Sits down beside her
Scares that Bitch away


Now you just have to add in a line about killing a cop , screwing a white bitch and getting shot.....

NOW .. you got a c-rap song

Hey . EVERYBODY can get down with that up shit..... hommie...
cop killer is not a rap song.ict t with rock group body count
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlOhPtRZCgE

cant find it now but it say that the year that song came out the cops deaths in la and other places went down :?

_________________
Arf you out of your fucking mind.Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 4237
zombie1210 wrote:
TRULY INSPIRATIONAL.

:twisted:


I don't know if you think you are trying to be funny or I should take your stream of pure bile & hatred seriously. Did ya ever hear the song "The Illinois Enema Bandit?" It's a song that glorifies a RAPIST and mocks RAPE VICTIMS. Pretty fuckin' reprehensible when ya think about it. Get off your high horse.


Last edited by brainpang on Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 4237
Raoul Duke wrote:
"Are there any niggers here tonight? Could you turn on the house lights, please, and could the waiters and waitresses just stop serving, just for a second? And turn off this spot. Now what did he say? "Are there any niggers here tonight?" I know there's one nigger, because I see him back there working. Let's see, there's two niggers. And between those two niggers sits a kike. And there's another kike— that's two kikes and three niggers. And there's a spic. Right? Hmm? There's another spic. Ooh, there's a wop; there's a polack; and, oh, a couple of greaseballs. And there's three lace-curtain Irish micks. And there's one, hip, thick, hunky, funky, boogie. Boogie boogie. Mm-hmm. I got three kikes here, do I hear five kikes? I got five kikes, do I hear six spics, I got six spics, do I hear seven niggers? I got seven niggers. Sold American. I pass with seven niggers, six spics, five micks, four kikes, three guineas, and one wop. Well, I was just trying to make a point, and that is that it's the suppression of the word that gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness. Dig: if President Kennedy would just go on television, and say, "I would like to introduce you to all the niggers in my cabinet," and if he'd just say "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger" to every nigger he saw, "boogie boogie boogie boogie boogie," "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger" 'til nigger didn't mean anything anymore, then you could never make some six-year-old black kid cry because somebody called him a nigger at school."
-Lenny Bruce


What was that? 1962? Very impressive but times have changed. The black man don't need no white crusader to further his cause. I know a nice street corner where I can drop you off and you can yell the N word to your hearts content. And I will laugh as you are beaten to death.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:47 am 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
FZ NEVER DID RAP MUSIC.

TWIST IT HOWEVER YOU FAGS WANT, BUT IT WASN'T RAP, AS IN RAP "MUSIC".

NO, IT WASN'T.

IT DIDNT HAVE A BEAT LIKE "DOO-DO-DE-DOO-DE-DOO-DOO-DOO".

AND AS MUCH AS SOME OF YOU DIMWITS WON'T ADMIT IT, FZ'S STUFF WAS LARGELY PARODY. TODAY'S CRAP MUSIC IS BRUTAL AND SOULLESS.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:14 am
Posts: 5513
I dunno, bp. If raoul duke or almost anybody would take the same case to the same proverbial and very real street corner and be able to back up this sentiment with other understandings of . . . disparity, I bet he could make some friends 8)
It's all about the intent and getting THAT communicated :wink:

_________________
" . . . On the outside now . . ."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:40 pm
Posts: 7134
Location: South wales
there was a time when rapping was about being board.just like zappa say on trouble every day. :wink:

_________________
Arf you out of your fucking mind.Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5793
Location: Closer than I Appear
I've just been scrolling through this thread and it's interesting how it has grown and mutated over time. For those of you who haven't been following it, here's a recap:

Overture: Keenthegod calls us a bunch of assholes. "Fuck you, I'm outta here".

Act One: Some discussion on the topic of who's an asshole

Act Two: Isaac vs Several Others, including the following topics:
a) Whether or not Isaac has quit the forum in a huff before.
b) The 20-minute LP Sides controversy, revisited
c) Isaac removing or editing posts or threads - did he or not?

Intermission: The Henry Cow Mini-Forum

Act Three: Isaac removing/editing posts, continued

Act Four: Appropriateness of the "N" word

Act Five: A discussion of Rap music and FZ's role in its development
a) Did FZ ever play Rap music?
b) Was FZ an influence on Rap artists?
c) Does Rap music have value?
d) Musical interlude: "Let's Take it to the Stage" by JayP
e) The "N" word, Revisited

And that's where we are now. And this is all in the last couple of weeks!

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Austin
That's great... I was thinking about that but was far too lazy to get it down in a nice outlined form like you did. haha.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:24 am 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
feetlightup wrote:
I've just been scrolling through this thread and it's interesting how it has grown and mutated over time. For those of you who haven't been following it, here's a recap:

Overture: Keenthegod calls us a bunch of assholes. "Fuck you, I'm outta here".

Act One: Some discussion on the topic of who's an asshole

Act Two: Isaac vs Several Others, including the following topics:
a) Whether or not Isaac has quit the forum in a huff before.
b) The 20-minute LP Sides controversy, revisited
c) Isaac removing or editing posts or threads - did he or not?

Intermission: The Henry Cow Mini-Forum

Act Three: Isaac removing/editing posts, continued

Act Four: Appropriateness of the "N" word

Act Five: A discussion of Rap music and FZ's role in its development
a) Did FZ ever play Rap music?
b) Was FZ an influence on Rap artists?
c) Does Rap music have value?
d) Musical interlude: "Let's Take it to the Stage" by JayP
e) The "N" word, Revisited

And that's where we are now. And this is all in the last couple of weeks!


THANKS FOR DUMBING IT DOWN FOR THE RETARDS.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:14 am
Posts: 5513
cleon wrote:
there was a time when rapping was about being board.just like zappa say on trouble every day. :wink:


LOL!! I always thought it was 'watch the rats go across the floor and make up songs about bein POOR!!!!

_________________
" . . . On the outside now . . ."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 4237
zombie1210 wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
I've just been scrolling through this thread and it's interesting how it has grown and mutated over time. For those of you who haven't been following it, here's a recap:

Overture: Keenthegod calls us a bunch of assholes. "Fuck you, I'm outta here".

Act One: Some discussion on the topic of who's an asshole

Act Two: Isaac vs Several Others, including the following topics:
a) Whether or not Isaac has quit the forum in a huff before.
b) The 20-minute LP Sides controversy, revisited
c) Isaac removing or editing posts or threads - did he or not?

Intermission: The Henry Cow Mini-Forum

Act Three: Isaac removing/editing posts, continued

Act Four: Appropriateness of the "N" word

Act Five: A discussion of Rap music and FZ's role in its development
a) Did FZ ever play Rap music?
b) Was FZ an influence on Rap artists?
c) Does Rap music have value?
d) Musical interlude: "Let's Take it to the Stage" by JayP
e) The "N" word, Revisited

And that's where we are now. And this is all in the last couple of weeks!


THANKS FOR DUMBING IT DOWN FOR THE RETARDS.


Do you have anything to say it all? Talk about a retard...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 1233
Where's Discoboy when we need him?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 306 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group